The wheels are falling off....

[HancockCountyDog]

Yeah- well "we" didn't. If you think that Sam Pittman would win with this group then I'm not the stupid one.

You think Arkansas has more talent than we do? Really?

His coaching staff is fantastic and coaching matters.

[confucius say]

You think Arkansas has more talent than we do? Really?

His coaching staff is fantastic and coaching matters.

Yes. Without hill and scrhrader etc...
Very comparable though.

Pittman and Odom and briles have done a great job for sure.

[HancockCountyDog]

Yes. Without hill and scrhrader etc...
Very comparable though.

Pittman and Odom and briles have done a great job for sure.

You think Hill leaves if he is getting the ball the way Arkansas is running the ball?

You think our OL looks the way it does running that offense?

If you had said before the season that Arkansas was more talented than us, you may have been banned; Now it?s a reality because we are running an outdated offense that teams as terrible as Vandy have figured out.

Man, it must be nice to have so many excuses ready if you are Leach;

[confucius say]

You think Hill leaves if he is getting the ball the way Arkansas is running the ball?

You think our OL looks the way it does running that offense?

If you had said before the season that Arkansas was more talented than us, you may have been banned; Now it?s a reality because we are running an outdated offense that teams as terrible as Vandy have figured out.

Man, it must be nice to have so many excuses ready if you are Leach;

I think I gave you the wrong impression. I am simply saying as the rosters sit right now, there is no appreciable difference in talent. Look at the recruiting rankings and attrition and you will see that.

Now, that doesn't change the fact that leach has sucked. The only way he will ever be good here doing what he is doing now is if he gets incredible OL and game breaking wr. I don't think he can do that but we will see. His only other option is to run the ball more.

[Matt3467]

Totally disagree with this.

We hired Jackie Sherrill- who had a natty on his resume. His NCAA baggage was his problem.
Croom was just a bad idea and hiring him over Jimbo Fisher is still one of the dumbest things LT ever did.
Mullen was playing for a Natty and considered one of the top OC's in the country
JoVester was considered a top OC in the country. Just turned out to be a bad HC
Leach has been successful and we hired him away from a P5 school

We haven't had any problems in the last 30 years hiring a football coach

All-time W-L-T records

MSU - 580-559-37.
Ole Miss - 647-517-34
Vanderbilt - 547-611-43
Bama - 936-305-42
LSU - 784-405-47
TN - 823-381-51
GA - 809-404-50
A&M - 732-474-44
FLA - 712-412-37
AU - 754-437-43
Mizzou - 637-540-50
ARK - 686-494-37
SC - 581-558-41
KY - 501-561-36

Before Mullen came in we had an overall losing record. Outside of KY and Vandy we have the worst record in the SEC. Even then KY has won the SEC twice. Besides one year under Mullen we haven't even had a winning record in SEC play since Sherrill. Our one year where we were in the running for a NC we threw it away by going on to lose by two scores to a collapsed OM team that had lost 3 of their last 4 and just came off a game where they lost to a 5-5 ARK team 0-30. We then of course lose to the complete opposite of the air raid in the Orange Bowl.

We were talked about as a coaching graveyard before Sherrill came here: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl...798-story.html
Sherrill still left here with an overall losing record (74-76) and losing record in bowls (2-4). You may say well that's because of the NCAA baggage and I'd tell you that's MSU for you. Mullen was our greatest coach but didn't it leave a sour taste in your mouth knowing the man was looking for a way out every year except maybe '09?

We can argue what ifs all the day long like what if Royal stayed, McKeen officially won the NC, Sherrill never had NCAA issues, why we hired Croom over Fisher, what if Mullen was committed to State, why we hired Moorhead when Kyle Whittingham wanted the job. None of that matters because it didn't happen.

Sometimes I wonder if the years we had under Mullen was really worth it because it seems to have really made our fanbase toxic. When we go from firing a coach two years in and wanting to fire the next one 4 games in that's a problem. Who in their right mind would ever want to come here and coach a team if he can't be given time to build it up. We aren't FLA, AU, GA, BAMA, LSU, A&M. We don't just reload. There's a reason people have called State a "dead-end place."

[BrunswickDawg]

Sometimes I wonder if the years we had under Mullen was really worth it because it seems to have really made our fanbase toxic. When we go from firing a coach two years in and wanting to fire the next one 4 games in that's a problem. Who in their right mind would ever want to come here and coach a team if he can't be given time to build it up. We aren't FLA, AU, GA, BAMA, LSU, A&M. We don't just reload. There's a reason people have called State a "dead-end place."

But hasn't our fanbase always been that way? I know that people were calling for Jackie to be fired in '95 and '96 so we could hire Bobby Wallace. We had people on here wanting to fire Mullen and bring in Hud during the '13 season.

Now, the flip side of that is that we actually have been incredibly patient from the university side and have given our coaches time - Felker and Croom were both given 5 seasons; only JoMo was cut short (and I will ALWAYS think that was the right move).

[HancockCountyDog]

I think I gave you the wrong impression. I am simply saying as the rosters sit right now, there is no appreciable difference in talent. Look at the recruiting rankings and attrition and you will see that.

The reason the rosters look the same is because we have put our guys in an offense that makes them look on par with Arkansas. Also, Arkansas has put their kids in an offense that makes them look significantly better than us.

Do you think the bears OL is actually better than ours? I mean is that a question? Of course not, the difference is that the bears OL is not put in a position to fail. Ours has been, so now all of a sudden, our OL which everyone knew would be a strength for us this season, looks like dog shit and they are blaming the players? You know what, you put Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers in a Rich Rod offense, they would like Tyler Russell did. That doesn't mean that they on the same talent level as Tyler Russell. IT just means that they are playing in the wrong offense where their talent cannot be seen by any rational person.

The reason Arkansas looks as good or better than us is coaching. When we played them a few weeks ago, i didn't think for one second that they were more talented than us. If we had a competent offense - we win that game by 20+. How anyone could watch that game and think to themselves - man Arkansas is just as good as us talent wise. Simply a coin flip game???? Are you kidding me.

[confucius say]

We had prominent posters on here tell us dan should have been gone in 2016. That we would look bad to fire him, but our best option was for him to leave on his own.

[Percho]

Do you hire M Leach and tell him coach what you have never coached or coach what you know to coach. How do you think we would look if ML was trying to coach the zone read?

If you think we are behind now, how far behind would he be in two years trying to mix in what he neither knows or wants?

[basedog]

But hasn't our fanbase always been that way? I know that people were calling for Jackie to be fired in '95 and '96 so we could hire Bobby Wallace. We had people on here wanting to fire Mullen and bring in Hud during the '13 season.

Now, the flip side of that is that we actually have been incredibly patient from the university side and have given our coaches time - Felker and Croom were both given 5 seasons; only JoMo was cut short (and I will ALWAYS think that was the right move).

Yes to this!

[pilldawg]

The Air Raid worked at Kentucky because they ran the ball 25 times per game at Kentucky. Leach's Air Raid is different from Mumme's at Kentucky

We can?t run either. We have tried.

[was21]

The answer is that Leach should have never been hired.

[Coach34]

All-time W-L-T records

MSU - 580-559-37.
Ole Miss - 647-517-34
Vanderbilt - 547-611-43
Bama - 936-305-42
LSU - 784-405-47
TN - 823-381-51
GA - 809-404-50
A&M - 732-474-44
FLA - 712-412-37
AU - 754-437-43
Mizzou - 637-540-50
ARK - 686-494-37
SC - 581-558-41
KY - 501-561-36

We were talked about as a coaching graveyard before Sherrill came here: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl...798-story.html
Sherrill still left here with an overall losing record (74-76) and losing record in bowls (2-4). You may say well that's because of the NCAA baggage and I'd tell you that's MSU for you. Mullen was our greatest coach but didn't it leave a sour taste in your mouth knowing the man was looking for a way out every year except maybe '09?

But that's the point- since Jackie we have not had a problem hiring a football coach. 1992 changed all that and elevated State when it elevated the SEC. I dont get into all-time records because nothing from 1962 affects us now. Check our record since Integration and use on the field results not the BS forfeits. Check our record with the conference since Jackie took over. 1991- present Miss State football is a different animal than it was in 1965. We used to be looked at the same way as a Memphis or La Tech and had the same facilities. Now its an upset anytime we lose to teams like that.

[BB30]

Look guys, nothing is going to change until we start donating and generating revenue with the big boys.

We are out spent by everyone else in our conference on the recruiting trail and in general and most teams are outspending us by a wide margin

We are out spent when it comes to hiring analysts to help with film and gameplans

We are out raised by everyone in the conference not named Vanderbilt and Vanderbilt may but their info is private since it is a private institution.

We have a champagne taste on a beer budget. We are near dead last in donations in not just the SEC but a large swath of the power 5 teams.

Now, money doesn't always equal success and there are diminishing returns once you are spending a certain amount and bringing in a certain amount but we aren't anywhere near there yet.

We caught lightening in a bottle with Dan. He is a heck of a head coach regardless of what anyone on here may think. What he did here is out of the ordinary again, regardless of what anyone else thinks or expects that is an undisputed fact backed up by 100 years of football.

We should have done everything we could to keep him as you don't let winners go in anything. Instead we threatened to fire him after 2016 and the fanbase started raising expectations which is good but they should also be tempered. You have to see the forest instead of the trees and most of our fanbase is looking at individual trees.

We are in a small state with Bama, Auburn, and LSU on all sides along with OM. We aren't this fairy tale that is set up perfect for success. It takes a hard nosed disciplined coach that will bust his a** on the recruiting trail and coach them up hard to win here. JOMO didn't fit that bill in terms of being hard nosed. I think Leach does and that is the most important quality IMO in a coach here. Discipline in all phases. I don't care what system he runs.

I ultimately think Leach will find a way to win here and am not ready to give up on him yet. A lot of yall really need to dig into the monetary numbers a little more and see just how behind we are in spending on the recruiting trail and with analysts/facilities. I think it will open some eyes as to the hill there to climb.

About the only advantage we have is the fact that we are in the SEC and receive SEC money.

By spending standards we should be in the bottom 1/4th of the conference every single year and really in the bottom 2-3.

Our expectations currently IMO should be 6-9 wins every season and every 4th or 5th season a shot at 10+, if the chips fall right and we win the West that is just icing on the top. Now, if we can consistently do that over say 10-15 years then we will slowly work our way up the ladder.

[FISHDAWG]

Look guys, nothing is going to change until we start donating and generating revenue with the big boys.

We are out spent by everyone else in our conference on the recruiting trail and in general and most teams are outspending us by a wide margin

We are out spent when it comes to hiring analysts to help with film and gameplans

We are out raised by everyone in the conference not named Vanderbilt and Vanderbilt may but their info is private since it is a private institution.

We have a champagne taste on a beer budget. We are near dead last in donations in not just the SEC but a large swath of the power 5 teams.

Now, money doesn't always equal success and there are diminishing returns once you are spending a certain amount and bringing in a certain amount but we aren't anywhere near there yet.

We caught lightening in a bottle with Dan. He is a heck of a head coach regardless of what anyone on here may think. What he did here is out of the ordinary again, regardless of what anyone else thinks or expects that is an undisputed fact backed up by 100 years of football.

We should have done everything we could to keep him as you don't let winners go in anything. Instead we threatened to fire him after 2016 and the fanbase started raising expectations which is good but they should also be tempered. You have to see the forest instead of the trees and most of our fanbase is looking at individual trees.

We are in a small state with Bama, Auburn, and LSU on all sides along with OM. We aren't this fairy tale that is set up perfect for success. It takes a hard nosed disciplined coach that will bust his a** on the recruiting trail and coach them up hard to win here. JOMO didn't fit that bill in terms of being hard nosed. I think Leach does and that is the most important quality IMO in a coach here. Discipline in all phases. I don't care what system he runs.

I ultimately think Leach will find a way to win here and am not ready to give up on him yet. A lot of yall really need to dig into the monetary numbers a little more and see just how behind we are in spending on the recruiting trail and with analysts/facilities. I think it will open some eyes as to the hill there to climb.

About the only advantage we have is the fact that we are in the SEC and receive SEC money.

By spending standards we should be in the bottom 1/4th of the conference every single year and really in the bottom 2-3.

Our expectations currently IMO should be 6-9 wins every season and every 4th or 5th season a shot at 10+, if the chips fall right and we win the West that is just icing on the top. Now, if we can consistently do that over say 10-15 years then we will slowly work our way up the ladder.

I've heard we have a nice rainy day slush fund ... if we aren't spending then it isn't the fans fault

[Jarius]

No coach should get an extension unless they show progress and we don't have the money to pay a buyout or a pointless extension. Extension isn't happening.

Mike Leach will 100 % get an extension. You don't hamstring your coach on the recruiting trail like that. It screams "we are about to fire this guy".

[Jarius]

You think Hill leaves if he is getting the ball the way Arkansas is running the ball?

You think our OL looks the way it does running that offense?

If you had said before the season that Arkansas was more talented than us, you may have been banned; Now it?s a reality because we are running an outdated offense that teams as terrible as Vandy have figured out.

Man, it must be nice to have so many excuses ready if you are Leach;

You can't seriously believe that we struggled on offense against Vandy because they "figured out our offense"? Like, you really believe that? Please stop embarrassing yourself.

[HancockCountyDog]

Look guys, nothing is going to change until we start donating and generating revenue with the big boys.

We are out spent by everyone else in our conference on the recruiting trail and in general and most teams are outspending us by a wide margin

We are out spent when it comes to hiring analysts to help with film and gameplans

We are out raised by everyone in the conference not named Vanderbilt and Vanderbilt may but their info is private since it is a private institution.

We have a champagne taste on a beer budget. We are near dead last in donations in not just the SEC but a large swath of the power 5 teams.

Now, money doesn't always equal success and there are diminishing returns once you are spending a certain amount and bringing in a certain amount but we aren't anywhere near there yet.

We caught lightening in a bottle with Dan. He is a heck of a head coach regardless of what anyone on here may think. What he did here is out of the ordinary again, regardless of what anyone else thinks or expects that is an undisputed fact backed up by 100 years of football.

We should have done everything we could to keep him as you don't let winners go in anything. Instead we threatened to fire him after 2016 and the fanbase started raising expectations which is good but they should also be tempered. You have to see the forest instead of the trees and most of our fanbase is looking at individual trees.

We are in a small state with Bama, Auburn, and LSU on all sides along with OM. We aren't this fairy tale that is set up perfect for success. It takes a hard nosed disciplined coach that will bust his a** on the recruiting trail and coach them up hard to win here. JOMO didn't fit that bill in terms of being hard nosed. I think Leach does and that is the most important quality IMO in a coach here. Discipline in all phases. I don't care what system he runs.

I ultimately think Leach will find a way to win here and am not ready to give up on him yet. A lot of yall really need to dig into the monetary numbers a little more and see just how behind we are in spending on the recruiting trail and with analysts/facilities. I think it will open some eyes as to the hill there to climb.

About the only advantage we have is the fact that we are in the SEC and receive SEC money.

By spending standards we should be in the bottom 1/4th of the conference every single year and really in the bottom 2-3.

Our expectations currently IMO should be 6-9 wins every season and every 4th or 5th season a shot at 10+, if the chips fall right and we win the West that is just icing on the top. Now, if we can consistently do that over say 10-15 years then we will slowly work our way up the ladder.

All of these points have nothing to do with the fact that we can't beat a 3-8 defense with any level of certainty at this point. Imagine if Leach had decided to not call a timeout before time ran out? Would any of the things you just mention bare at all on his coaching blunder? Of course not.

He is getting paid 5 million a year. That is not pocket change, even in the SEC. He simply needs to be judged on the product he has put on the field. The rest of this is just noise.

[LC Dawg]

In regards to extensions on coaches contracts I wonder if we make under the table promises to extend coaches because other states can offer longer contracts.

The amount of money made by coaches and the way their contracts are set up is one reason I think people may not return to spending all the money required to attend SEC football games. I get real frustrated by how much coaches are rewarded even if they fail.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I've heard we have a nice rainy day slush fund ... if we aren't spending then it isn't the fans fault

It's been a long standing rumor that the "slush fund" you talk about was provided by Leo Seal and it's specifically earmarked for hiring and firing coaches. Probably no way to actually prove it though