Devil's Advocate regarding football hype...

[Todd4State]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb’s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling “wooly” about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more

Some of that is because we blitzed a lot. I wouldn't say Ole Miss played pitch and catch- we held them to under 50% completion percentage. But the ones they connected on were explosive plays. Jordan Wilkins hurt as much as their passing did- we had two absolute busts in our run fits and that hurt us a lot.

So, if anything Shoop blitzing less and playing less man should help our secondary some.

[Todd4State]

Yep, don’t have to play Georgia, thank goodness, but the other 3 will have just as good passing attacks this year or maybe even better (Bama). However, I imagine Mullin will have Florida throwing early and often in Starkville and despite many bashing his play calling and his recruiting, he is excellent at exposing opponents weaknesses and our glaring and obvious shortcoming is our secondary which he will attack early and often.

I doubt it. He will do the same crap he always does in big games.

[thf24]

Yep, don?t have to play Georgia, thank goodness, but the other 3 will have just as good passing attacks this year or maybe even better (Bama). However, I imagine Mullin will have Florida throwing early and often in Starkville and despite many bashing his play calling and his recruiting, he is excellent at exposing opponents weaknesses and our glaring and obvious shortcoming is our secondary which he will attack early and often.

Are you talking about the same Mullen who would routinely pick up a few first downs against a weak rushing defense on the ground, then throw three straight incompletions? Maybe I?ve forgotten already, but I in no way remember Mullen being particularly good at exposing weaknesses compared to other offensive-minded coaches. Not unless the QB draw was a particular opponent?s weakness.

[Pollodawg]

Are you talking about the same Mullen who would routinely pick up a few first downs against a weak rushing defense on the ground, then throw three straight incompletions? Maybe I?ve forgotten already, but I in no way remember Mullen being particularly good at exposing weaknesses compared to other offensive-minded coaches. Not unless the QB draw was a particular opponent?s weakness.

Exactly. We just ran our base offense, and if we didn’t work, we just lost. End of story. I never once saw him change anything of any significance. I mean, he tried to run TR.

[Goldendawg]

We aren't going to throw the ball all over the place and we're going to throw to the backs more. There's not that big a risk increase. But the reward will be big. Mullen ran his minimalized playbook to perfection. But he was scared to do the things necessary to make us competitive with top teams. JoMo's record vs top teams won't ever be as bad as Mullen's. You have to take chances vs teams better than you. Mullen didn't. Screw him!

Dan did a lot of good things for State, but his record against ranked teams was not one of them. Hail JoMo and a higher ceiling.

[Percho]

The late but great Coach Darrel Royal once stated, "There are three things while passing and two of them are bad".

And the late but great Coach Pat Summit once stated, "Offense sells tickets but Defense wins games".

I think that was Woody Hayes Ohio State.

[Percho]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb?s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling ?wooly? about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more

Does that count the missed illegal plays?

[dawgs]

We're all wooly about football, myself included, so I'm going to play devil's advocate, and you guys tell me why I'm wrong or if you agree.

Everyone agrees Moorhead will open up the offense and we'll pass more. Well, whether you want to give Don credit or not, his "safe" play calling helped us when it came to turnovers....and turnovers are a recipe for disaster in the SEC. Why should we not be slightly concerned that we're about to start throwing it a lot more with a QB that sits around 50% completions for his career?

Could more passing and more reads actually end up hurting the O due to potentially causing more turnovers?

What about all the games we lost because Dan refused to take any chances? How many times did we sit on the ball at the end of half when we were well within striking distance of at least a FG attempt? How many times did we repeatedly run the QB between the tackles against good defenses instead of forcing them to actually cover sideline to sideline (first half of bama 2014 being the most egregious example)?

[Ezsoil]

The wooliness in me says that while Mullen's offense limited turnovers in conventional situations, he probably added at least 3-4 over the course of a season due to boneheaded gimmicks that never worked (fake punts, etc.). He also wasn't without his share of 4-5 turnover blowouts despite safe playcalling.

As far as Fitz completion percentage, I'd like to think we're going to see that go up due to giving him bigger windows to throw into as a result of competent WR coaching. Hard for almost anyone to throw 65% when you barely have anyone who can get loose from even SWAC CB's on a consistent basis.

But yet if Mullen had called shorter routes rather than having an inexperienced QB force throws in the egg bowl, MSU wins by two touchdowns

[Ezsoil]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb?s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling ?wooly? about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more

Brian Cole says ?not so fast my Friend?....

[biggun]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

[Captain Falcon]

Had he won the Egg Bowl the feeling might be different. But he was totally disengaged and it cost us a rivalry game at home where we were heavily favored.

Everything was building to a big year for us in 2018, and he just bailed for a rebuilding job at another school before he got to coach what would?ve been his greatest team. And he left with barely a good bye.

Also, he?s a smug jerk. That has always been the case, we just don?t like it now that he?s not our jerk anymore.

[BrunswickDawg]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

You normally don't start cussing your ex-wife until her lawyers take you to the cleaners either....

Seriously, there have been plenty of threads about what Dan did do for us. But, Dan did have shortcomings - many of which people were willing to ignore because of the positive (which you note in your post). People are excited because with the new staff and the team we have coming back, there are opportunities for us to overcome those shortcomings. JoMo will have ones of his own, but as of this moment, he has none.

[thf24]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

I don't see any bitter/blinding hate in this thread. Maybe some marked resentment, which is to be expected after the way he left, regardless of the great job he did growing the program during his tenure. But it's mostly honest assessments of his weaknesses. I'd go so far as to say the most outrageous statement in the thread is yours that he was "excellent at exposing opponents' weaknesses"; that simply isn't true, at least judging by his 9 seasons with us.

[dawgs]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

No hate, just a realistic look at his limitations. I think since bama 2014, it's been readily apparent that Mullen didn't have the balls to consistently win big games and the lack of a recruiting bump post-dak was indicative of his limitations as a recruiter. Funny thing with the crootin aspect is that Florida fans told us in 2009 how Dan nearly screwed up the Tebow recruiting and Meyer had to make a last minute save to keep him from going to bama. The fact that we didn't capitalize after 2014 is entirely on Dan. Dan can find undervalued talent and develop guys, but to win big, you at least need to have a top 10 class every once in awhile and consistently hang around in the top 15-20 other years.

As an in game coach, Dan is overly conservative and runs one of the most boring spread option systems out there. If it was 3rd and 5 or less, I bet we ran dak or fitz between the tackles 90% of the time since 2013. That works against la tech and vandy, but it doesn't work against bama or consistently against LSU and auburn, which is why we almost always won the games we should and lost the games we should. And how often would we sit on the ball at the end of the half when we were within striking distance of FG range and a couple time outs in our pocket?

And since bama 2014, he has flirted with any and all P5 openings that would listen, even inferior programs like Minnesota and Maryland. Seemed like every good season went out with a whimper because he'd be checked out working the coaching carousel instead of beating the shit out of OM and winning a bowl game.

Clearly his positives outweighed his negatives and he is an overall good coach, and I'm forever thankful for turning us around post-croom, but he had a couple of obvious, yet fixable flaws, but he refused to addressed those flaws, which imo likely meant we were perpetually stuck in a cycle of essentially 7-9 win seasons. There's obviously worse scenarios out there (croom), but when you can see the couple of fixable flaws that could take us from a 7-9 W program to a 8-11 W program and Dan continuously refused to work on those flaws, then it gets frustrating. Throw in the constant flirting with any and every HC opening, and I think most MSU fans are thankful for what Dan did for the program but ok with him moving on.

[Todd4State]

Had he won the Egg Bowl the feeling might be different. But he was totally disengaged and it cost us a rivalry game at home where we were heavily favored.

Everything was building to a big year for us in 2018, and he just bailed for a rebuilding job at another school before he got to coach what would?ve been his greatest team. And he left with barely a good bye.

Also, he?s a smug jerk. That has always been the case, we just don?t like it now that he?s not our jerk anymore.

If you coach at Mississippi State you must beat Ole Miss consistently. Dan does have a winning record against them- but completely checking out in that game not once but twice is inexcusable. He also lost the most important Egg Bowl in 2014 as well in terms of National prestige.

But after 2015 I had just completly lost faith in him and saw him for what he was. I personally would have told him to take the Maryland job if I was the AD because it was pretty obvious he didn't want to be here anymore at that time.

[Todd4State]

No hate, just a realistic look at his limitations. I think since bama 2014, it's been readily apparent that Mullen didn't have the balls to consistently win big games and the lack of a recruiting bump post-dak was indicative of his limitations as a recruiter. Funny thing with the crootin aspect is that Florida fans told us in 2009 how Dan nearly screwed up the Tebow recruiting and Meyer had to make a last minute save to keep him from going to bama. The fact that we didn't capitalize after 2014 is entirely on Dan. Dan can find undervalued talent and develop guys, but to win big, you at least need to have a top 10 class every once in awhile and consistently hang around in the top 15-20 other years.

As an in game coach, Dan is overly conservative and runs one of the most boring spread option systems out there. If it was 3rd and 5 or less, I bet we ran dak or fitz between the tackles 90% of the time since 2013. That works against la tech and vandy, but it doesn't work against bama or consistently against LSU and auburn, which is why we almost always won the games we should and lost the games we should. And how often would we sit on the ball at the end of the half when we were within striking distance of FG range and a couple time outs in our pocket?

And since bama 2014, he has flirted with any and all P5 openings that would listen, even inferior programs like Minnesota and Maryland. Seemed like every good season went out with a whimper because he'd be checked out working the coaching carousel instead of beating the shit out of OM and winning a bowl game.

Clearly his positives outweighed his negatives and he is an overall good coach, and I'm forever thankful for turning us around post-croom, but he had a couple of obvious, yet fixable flaws, but he refused to addressed those flaws, which imo likely meant we were perpetually stuck in a cycle of essentially 7-9 win seasons. There's obviously worse scenarios out there (croom), but when you can see the couple of fixable flaws that could take us from a 7-9 W program to a 8-11 W program and Dan continuously refused to work on those flaws, then it gets frustrating. Throw in the constant flirting with any and every HC opening, and I think most MSU fans are thankful for what Dan did for the program but ok with him moving on.

All of this^^^^

[dawgs]

Oh yeah, and how many freshmen RBs have we watching carve up defenses while kept a talented back on the bench for 2+ seasons cause he "couldn't learn pass blocking schemes"?

[Pit Bull]

Cant win SEC Championships unless you can run the ball successfully. A 60/40 run/pass percentage would be good. We have one outstanding RB, one up and coming big time RB, and another that can push for PT as well....so we're in good shape as long as the sled pushers up front can move people out of the way. I am still very concerned about our passing game as I did not see enough of an improvement as I thought we should have. Maybe Joe and his staff can help Fitz take that next step in passing accuracy.....if not, then Keyteon should be given a shot at it.

[viverlibre]

Fitz is a above average passer. His WR's hurt him a lot. Also, Jomo is smart enough to adjust to our strengths. He will not try to make a square peg fit a circle with the offense.

He's iffy over 20 years, he's at best an average passer, maybe below average on deep balls.