Some Late Night Thoughts on Lemonis

[Bubb Rubb]

OK.

At a bare minimum:

1. I didn't think Henderson was the long term answer for us.

2. If Cohen thought Henderson was the best guy for us he would have just promoted him.

Therefore Cohen agrees with me.

I'm a message board poster submitting comments on a message board, but I have no idea about the inner workings of this coaching search or who Cohen valued as candidates or not.

I can guarantee you Cohen agrees with me.

[Todd4State]

Hey, he was the best we could do! Hope he becomes our all-time greatest coach in the long term. In the short term (2019), he better take us to a SR and probably a CWS, with the talent we have and coming in, or he may not be as good as Henderson.

There is no question the expectations should be high from day one with our team. A SR is the minimum standard. If we can improve the pitching and defense a little bit and at the same time make the natural improvements with our hitting the CWS certainly is not out of the question.

[Todd4State]

I'm a message board poster submitting comments on a message board, but I have no idea about the inner workings of this coaching search or who Cohen valued as candidates or not.

I can guarantee you Cohen agrees with me.

I'm not sure who you wanted- and I've never said once that we got our first choice. It's very obvious that we didn't.

But that being said- I think we made a good hire and made a good choice. And I think we made a better choice than hiring Henderson.

[Bubb Rubb]

I'm not sure who you wanted- and I've never said once that we got our first choice. It's very obvious that we didn't.

But that being said- I think we made a good hire and made a good choice. And I think we made a better choice than hiring Henderson.

I think we made a fine hire. I'm sure it was a drawn out process - and I'm sure Henderson was a viable candidate in Cohen's eyes, too. Perhaps Lemonis was Cohen's guy all along. It's all speculative. I wasn't attacking you - just pointing out that stating Henderson wasn't the guy and that Cohen agreed with you on that is not the right thing to say unless you sat in on all the interviews with Cohen. For all you know, Cohen had decided on keeping Henderson and he came up with some demand that Cohen wouldn't adhere to. It's all speculation. At the end of the day Lemonis is going to be fine and it will work out.

[Todd4State]

I think we made a fine hire. I'm sure it was a drawn out process - and I'm sure Henderson was a viable candidate in Cohen's eyes, too. Perhaps Lemonis was Cohen's guy all along. It's all speculative. I wasn't attacking you - just pointing out that stating Henderson wasn't the guy and that Cohen agreed with you on that is not the right thing to say unless you sat in on all the interviews with Cohen. For all you know, Cohen had decided on keeping Henderson and he came up with some demand that Cohen wouldn't adhere to. It's all speculation. At the end of the day Lemonis is going to be fine and it will work out.

Like not wanting to hire a pitching coach and run the pitching staff like he did at Kentucky? Possibly. I don't know that there were any demands like that. But it seems pretty unlikely that Henderson would make those kinds of demands unless they were on the bus coming back from Omaha.

What is known is:

1. Cohen's comments on Bo Bounds that didn't fit Henderson.
2. Cohen has now passed on Henderson a second time- first by hiring Cann and now Lemonis.
3. Cohen's comments on the radio criticizing some of Henderson's in game decisions.

[Bubb Rubb]

Like not wanting to hire a pitching coach and run the pitching staff like he did at Kentucky? Possibly. I don't know that there were any demands like that. But it seems pretty unlikely that Henderson would make those kinds of demands unless they were on the bus coming back from Omaha.

What is known is:

1. Cohen's comments on Bo Bounds that didn't fit Henderson.
2. Cohen has now passed on Henderson a second time- first by hiring Cann and now Lemonis.
3. Cohen's comments on the radio criticizing some of Henderson's in game decisions.

1. Cohen's comments on Bo Bounds don't fit Lemonis either.
2. Henderson had more leverage the second time - he just took this team to Omaha.
3. Cohen was providing color commentary - not looking to make his own baseball coach look bad.

[Todd4State]

1. Cohen's comments on Bo Bounds don't fit Lemonis either. And if Henderson was a viable candidate Cohen doesn't make them at that point in time.
2. Henderson had more leverage the second time - he just took this team to Omaha. Exactly. And Cohen still didn't hire him. That's my point.
3. Cohen was providing color commentary - not looking to make his own baseball coach look bad.Most AD's that are about to promote someone and are on the air are going to pump the guy up.

See my responses above.

[shoeless joe]

OK.

At a bare minimum:

1. I didn't think Henderson was the long term answer for us.

2. If Cohen thought Henderson was the best guy for us he would have just promoted him.

Therefore Cohen agrees with me.

Cohen thinks lemonis is a better option than Hendo...true enough, and I'm fine with that and hope he takes us where we wanna be. But to say that Cohen agrees with all the Hendo bashing that you've done on this board is absurd at the least.

[Bubb Rubb]

See my responses above.

I think Crash Davis said it best - this conversation is like a martian talking to a fungo.

[Todd4State]

Cohen thinks lemonis is a better option than Hendo...true enough, and I'm fine with that and hope he takes us where we wanna be. But to say that Cohen agrees with all the Hendo bashing that you've done on this board is absurd at the least.

I didn't say Cohen agreed with the "bashing" of Henderson. I said that he agreed that with me that he wasn't the best long term solution for us. What Cohen said on the radio wasn't any worse than anything I've ever said about Henderson. Excuse me for "bashing" Henderson by not giving him total credit for this season because our turnaround coincided when our offense turned around- which Henderson had very little to do with.


Every time someone criticized me for "bashing" Henderson I asked them to provide some kind of baseball related response to defend Henderson's decision and no one ever really did. Not once.

[Turfdawg67]

Every time someone criticized me for "bashing" Henderson I asked them to provide some kind of baseball related response to defend Henderson's decision and no one ever really did. Not once.

BS, you just ignore their defense and stick to whatever position you've chosen and find one excuse for Henderson's success... in this case Jake. Well maybe Lemonis' "success" was Dunn? Fact is, Henderson pissed off you and a lot of people early in the season, so any and everything after was due to something or someone else. That's called stubbornness. Truth is Henderson's and Lemonis' resumes are very similar. But in your eyes one didn't deserve it and the other is a great hire.

[Todd4State]

Every time someone criticized me for "bashing" Henderson I asked them to provide some kind of baseball related response to defend Henderson's decision and no one ever really did. Not once.

BS, you just ignore their defense and stick to whatever position you've chosen and find one excuse for Henderson's success... in this case Jake. Well maybe Lemonis' "success" was Dunn? Fact is, Henderson pissed off you and a lot of people early in the season, so any and everything after was due to something or someone else. That's called stubbornness. Truth is Henderson's and Lemonis' resumes are very similar. But in your eyes one didn't deserve it and the other is a great hire.

Their resume's are similar? Lemonis- three Regionals in four years at a Big 10 school. Henderson- 2 at Kentucky in eight years.

Usually the defense for Henderson was I played PS2 or something like that. How is that baseball related? The FACT is no one- including you has come up with anything baseball related to defend his poor decisions with the pitching staff.


Offensively we ended up 8th in the SEC in hitting by the end of the year after a slow start and half of our lineup being freshmen. Our pitching staff finished 11th and we have only had one pitcher that had an ERA under 3 ever under Henderson. Those are baseball related FACTS that show that Gautreau was the main reason for the turnaround.


And it's Bunn- not Dunn.

[shoeless joe]

Their resume's are similar? Lemonis- three Regionals in four years at a Big 10 school. Henderson- 2 at Kentucky in eight years.

Usually the defense for Henderson was I played PS2 or something like that. How is that baseball related? The FACT is no one- including you has come up with anything baseball related to defend his poor decisions with the pitching staff.


Offensively we ended up 8th in the SEC in hitting by the end of the year after a slow start and half of our lineup being freshmen. Our pitching staff finished 11th and we have only had one pitcher that had an ERA under 3 ever under Henderson. Those are baseball related FACTS that show that Gautreau was the main reason for the turnaround.


And it's Bunn- not Dunn.

You're glossing over the fact that Hendo led the team to the success they had. I can't argue that offensive technique, approach, and game plan wasn't due to gotro...but who gave him the keys to the offense? Who set their ego aside and allowed him to run that show? Who was the calm steady influence over the entire course of the season? Obviously the guy knows the game or he wouldn't have gotten to where he did. But you seem to be ignoring all of that because he made some poor in game decisions at times...which if you watch college ball, as I know you do, you should know that questionable decisions are not that rare. Even at the higher levels.

Not that you care but IMO this whole ordeal has put a major damper on your credibility as some sort of baseball guru that you like to play on this board.

[Todd4State]

You're glossing over the fact that Hendo led the team to the success they had. I can't argue that offensive technique, approach, and game plan wasn't due to gotro...but who gave him the keys to the offense? Who set their ego aside and allowed him to run that show? Who was the calm steady influence over the entire course of the season? Obviously the guy knows the game or he wouldn't have gotten to where he did. But you seem to be ignoring all of that because he made some poor in game decisions at times...which if you watch college ball, as I know you do, you should know that questionable decisions are not that rare. Even at the higher levels.

Not that you care but IMO this whole ordeal has put a major damper on your credibility as some sort of baseball guru that you like to play on this board.

I gave Henderson credit for keeping the program afloat in the original post of this thread.

I mean, if I wanted to please the crowd I could give all the credit to Henderson if I was worried about my "Internet guru credibility" but it wouldn't be genuine. The fact that Henderson wasn't named the head coach and Gautreau is staying is good enough for me.

[Turfdawg67]

Their resume's are similar? Lemonis- three Regionals in four years at a Big 10 school. Henderson- 2 at Kentucky in eight years.

Lets compare their first 4 years as a head coach since Lemonis has only been a HC that long:

Henderson-
* 129-99 in the SEC
* Finished 5th, 4th, 5th & 2nd (again in the SEC)
* 1 Regional
* 1 SEC COY Award

Lemonis-
* 141-91 in the Big 10
* Finshed 6th, 3rd, 6th and 5th in conference
* 3 Regionals

Yes, pretty similar. Lemonis made a Regional twice with records of 32 & 34 wins while Henderson missed a Regional with 31 wins and later in his last year with 32 wins. Of course if we look later in the career, Gary also has a COY Award, a SR and a CWS.

[Turfdawg67]

I gave Henderson credit for keeping the program afloat in the original post of this thread.

I mean, if I wanted to please the crowd I could give all the credit to Henderson if I was worried about my "Internet guru credibility" but it wouldn't be genuine. The fact that Henderson wasn't named the head coach and Gautreau is staying is good enough for me.

Then the fact that he's been Cohen's pitching coach at two different schools should be good enough for you too.

[Jarius]

Lets compare their first 4 years as a head coach since Lemonis has only been a HC that long:

Henderson-
* 129-99 in the SEC
* Finished 5th, 4th, 5th & 2nd (again in the SEC)
* 1 Regional
* 1 SEC COY Award

Lemonis-
* 141-91 in the Big 10
* Finshed 6th, 3rd, 6th and 5th in conference
* 3 Regionals

Yes, pretty similar. Lemonis made a Regional twice with records of 32 & 34 wins while Henderson missed a Regional with 31 wins and later in his last year with 32 wins. Of course if we look later in the career, Gary also has a COY Award, a SR and a CWS.

It's not pretty similar because you are totally ignoring the fact that Gary Henderson has 4 more years and did basically jack shit in those years. You are once again ignoring the entire resume of Henderson. Going to 3 regionals in 4 years is a hell of a lot better than going to 2 regionals in 8 years. It's not even debatable.

[Todd4State]

Lets compare their first 4 years as a head coach since Lemonis has only been a HC that long:

Henderson-
* 129-99 in the SEC
* Finished 5th, 4th, 5th & 2nd (again in the SEC)
* 1 Regional
* 1 SEC COY Award

Lemonis-
* 141-91 in the Big 10
* Finshed 6th, 3rd, 6th and 5th in conference
* 3 Regionals

Yes, pretty similar. Lemonis made a Regional twice with records of 32 & 34 wins while Henderson missed a Regional with 31 wins and later in his last year with 32 wins. Of course if we look later in the career, Gary also has a COY Award, a SR and a CWS.

Too bad Gary had years 5-8 at Kentucky to look at. We'll compare Lemonis in four years and see how it looks then.

[Todd4State]

Then the fact that he's been Cohen's pitching coach at two different schools should be good enough for you too.

And the fact that he didn't promote him here twice should be good enough for you. Even after his best season.

[Todd4State]

It's not pretty similar because you are totally ignoring the fact that Gary Henderson has 4 more years and did basically jack shit in those years. You are once again ignoring the entire resume of Henderson. Going to 3 regionals in 4 years is a hell of a lot better than going to 2 regionals in 8 years. It's not even debatable.

For him it is debatable apparently. I'm glad he didn't handle this coaching search.