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Thread: Here's a sobering stat I missed

  1. #41
    Senior Member Bulldog1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    The 98',99', and 2000 teams would have won 6 games max in the SEC west Dan's teams competed in.
    I think Jackie could?ve managed at least 3 SEC wins a year, plus the 4 cupcakes Mullins played. That?s at leaat 7 wins right there.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    Dan was better.

    I love Jackie and what he did here but Dan played in a MUCH better SEC West than Jackie. Bama and Auburn were both mediocre. Also, LSU wasn't good either but Jackie still could never beat them. We won the west in 90' by going 5-3 in the SEC with a road loss to Kentucky. Jackie's run in the 90's would have been equivalent to Mullen being in the East while at State. We would have won the east probably 3 times under Dan.
    Let's back that up and look at where we were when Jackie took over vs when Mullen did. In 1992- we were basically looked at by recruits as being the same as La Tech, Memphis, etc. Our facilities were awful. Our stadium seated 35K.

    Mullen took over in a time of an elevated SEC that was getting its own network. Bigger stadium, mo momey, mo money, mo money...State was no longer looked at as being comparable to Memphis or La Tech anymore
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  3. #43
    Senior Member THE Bruce Dickinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Let's back that up and look at where we were when Jackie took over vs when Mullen did. In 1992- we were basically looked at by recruits as being the same as La Tech, Memphis, etc. Our facilities were awful. Our stadium seated 35K.

    Mullen took over in a time of an elevated SEC that was getting its own network. Bigger stadium, mo momey, mo money, mo money...State was no longer looked at as being comparable to Memphis or La Tech anymore
    I don't disagree, and like I said earlier I like Jackie and am very appreciative of what he did for MSU.

    The SEC network started in 2014. Mullen took over in 09.

    Lastly, Pre Saban LSU from 1992-1999 while Jackie was at State had an overall record of 44-46. We were 1-7 in those 8 meetings (and we only got the 1 due to there being no instant replay) including a 41-6 beat down to a 4-7 LSU team in the 98' SECW championship season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption View Post
    Guys, I liked Sherrill too but he was a .500 coach who got us on probation twice. His SEC records weren't any better than Dan's and his teams were way too boom or bust for my taste. For every #2 Florida win there was a ULL loss. Dan had one bad loss in 9 years.
    That's the point, they performed similarly with the Kang having higher highs and lower lows. Muffins had a tougher SEC but Kang played tougher OOC schedules.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption View Post
    I get that he left us and I'm annoyed that he pussed out and gave up and ran like a little bitch to Florida where he's going to get his ass run off after 4 years but he did a good job here. Give the man his due and let's start his firing from Florida by beating his team's ass in September.
    Nobody isn't giving him his due, what are you talking about

    I give credit to Merlot for leaving when he did, instead of getting a bad attitude and giving up at the end like Kang. And it was headed that direction, see the emphasis on JUCOs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    1A/1B did us in that year. Our coaches were dumbasses.
    Dak's red zone pics against Bama did us in, he didn't play like a Heisman contender that day

    I'm convinced some of that was Merlot though, I think he rubbed off on the team

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    In the past 15 years we have had one winning season in SEC play in football. That's half on Croom. But I think it shows how much Dan's record was inflated beating Louisiana Tech 3-4 times every year.
    Dan was feasting on minnows and his record is terrible in games with the spread less than 10 in his favor. You could say the Mullen factor is -6 to the opposition. Phil Steel keeps that kind of data.

    Mullen will be a Saban ?analyst? in two/three years. But if I were Saban, I would rather have Freeze as an analyst. Freeze always went straight for Saban throat when playing Bama.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    The SEC network started in 2014. Mullen took over in 09.

    Lastly, Pre Saban LSU from 1992-1999 while Jackie was at State had an overall record of 44-46. We were 1-7 in those 8 meetings (and we only got the 1 due to there being no instant replay) including a 41-6 beat down to a 4-7 LSU team in the 98' SECW championship season.
    While the network didnt launch until 2014- there was a good 2 years before it launched of SEC coaches selling it to recruits.

    The SEC was still the SEC in the 90's. Auburn went undefeated once and was solid. Bama won the NC in 1992. OM was consistent with Tubbs and Cutcliffe. It just didnt have the 1 dominant team as it does now. Auburn has had losing seasons as has OM during Mullen's tenure. UPig has had losing seasons during Mullen's tenure just as they did in the 90's.
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  8. #48
    Senior Member THE Bruce Dickinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    While the network didnt launch until 2014- there was a good 2 years before it launched of SEC coaches selling it to recruits.

    The SEC was still the SEC in the 90's. Auburn went undefeated once and was solid. Bama won the NC in 1992. OM was consistent with Tubbs and Cutcliffe. It just didnt have the 1 dominant team as it does now. Auburn has had losing seasons as has OM during Mullen's tenure. UPig has had losing seasons during Mullen's tenure just as they did in the 90's.
    In the 9 year periods from 1992-2000 and 2009-2017 every team in the SECW except Ole Miss (Excluding AM) is better from 09-17.

    The SECW was for Mullen what the SECE was for Jackie. Mullen dealt with Bama, Auburn, and LSU every year relatively equivalent to how Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia were in the 90s.

    Jackie in these 9 years played the eventual national champion or national runner up twice. Bama 92' and UT 98'. Mullen played the national champ or national runner up 10 times.

    The levels of competition aren't even close.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    I don't disagree, and like I said earlier I like Jackie and am very appreciative of what he did for MSU.

    The SEC network started in 2014. Mullen took over in 09.

    Lastly, Pre Saban LSU from 1992-1999 while Jackie was at State had an overall record of 44-46. We were 1-7 in those 8 meetings (and we only got the 1 due to there being no instant replay) including a 41-6 beat down to a 4-7 LSU team in the 98' SECW championship season.
    The TD was very close and could have been overturned but I have seen worse not overturned. I will say without a shadow of doubt that LSU the next year was given a TD by the refs. LSU scored a TD with Eugene Clinton the only one in the endzone with the ball. The LSU player somehow scored a TD from around the 4 yard line while the ball crossed the goal line. I would think that more than made up for it since that game doesn't go into overtime without that TD.

  10. #50
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    I?ll always remember JWS as accomplishing more than Mullen. Mullen is a solid coach though. Very good QB coach.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsDawg View Post
    I?ll always remember JWS as accomplishing more than Mullen. Mullen is a solid coach though. Very good QB coach.
    JWS showed we could win a Championship in football. We were less than a quarter away from winning the SEC. Dan showed us we could consistently compete for bowl games. Both have built the program to where hopefully Coach JoeMo will take it.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    In the 9 year periods from 1992-2000 and 2009-2017 every team in the SECW except Ole Miss (Excluding AM) is better from 09-17.

    The levels of competition aren't even close.
    UPig is the same now as it was in 90's- 4 losing seasons in that span but an SEC West co-title vs 3 losing seasons 2009-2017
    Auburn had 2 losing seasons in that 90's span with 4 top 15 finishes- including 1 undefeated season. Auburn has 2 last place West finishes in the Mullen-era
    OM had 2 losing seasons in the Jackie-era 90's- but had 3 in the Mullen era

    All thats a wash....LSU and Bama are certainly better tho.

    The 90's also had a tougher East- which made those games tougher- as opposed to being the easier games as the power of the SEC has shifted to the West. Did Mullen play a tougher West? Sure. Did Mullen start at a higher point than Jackie to equip him to meet those demands? Absolutely.
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    The 98',99', and 2000 teams would have won 6 games max in the SEC west Dan's teams competed in.
    This.

    Dan's SEC and especially SEC West were as strong as any division has been... ever.

    Jackie won while LSU & Bama were WAY down from what they've been the last 10 years, and while Auburn had some dips.

    The East was the bear back then and Jackie avoided playing even 1 of UF, UGA, and UT in many years.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Bulldog1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofozarka View Post
    This.

    Dan's SEC and especially SEC West were as strong as any division has been... ever.

    Jackie won while LSU & Bama were WAY down from what they've been the last 10 years, and while Auburn had some dips.

    The East was the bear back then and Jackie avoided playing even 1 of UF, UGA, and UT in many years.
    Dan won 6 games because he loaded up with 4 La tech’s, trashy UK, and beat Ark/OM, or aTm. Not that hard. JWS played a tougher NC schedule. I’ll give Dan credit, he was a good developer, but if he was half as good as he thought he was, we’d of won 2 Titles.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofozarka View Post
    Jackie won while LSU & Bama were WAY down from what they've been the last 10 years, and while Auburn had some dips.

    The East was the bear back then and Jackie avoided playing even 1 of UF, UGA, and UT in many years.
    Dan was 2-16 vs Bama and LSU...Jackie had a couple more overall. But it still comes down to games vs the rest of the SEC when judging them. Games vs Bama and LSU have never been the way to judge our program
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  16. #56
    Senior Member THE Bruce Dickinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog1 View Post
    Dan won 6 games because he loaded up with 4 La tech’s, trashy UK, and beat Ark/OM, or aTm. Not that hard. JWS played a tougher NC schedule. I’ll give Dan credit, he was a good developer, but if he was half as good as he thought he was, we’d of won 2 Titles.
    As opposed to Jackie? First of all we always play UK no matter what. This wasn't a scheduling tactic by Mullen. Also, Jackie lost to UK in the 98 SECW Champ season.

    Next here is a list of all non conference opponents from 1992-2000

    1992
    Texas
    Memphis
    Ark St

    1993
    Tulane
    Ark St
    Mem

    1994
    Mem
    Ark St.
    Tulane

    1995
    Baylor
    NE Louisiana
    Memphis

    1996
    La Tech
    Memphis
    NE Lousiana

    1997
    Memphis
    NE Louisiana
    UCF

    1998
    Memphis
    E Tenn St.
    Ok St

    1999
    Ok St
    MTSU
    Memphis

    2000
    BYU
    Memphis
    MTSU

    So in his first nine years Jackie played a total 3 power 5 teams:

    1992 Texas 6-5
    1995 Baylor 7-4
    1998 Ok St. 5-6 (Beat State SECW Champs)
    1999 Ok St. 5-6

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    As opposed to Jackie? First of all we always play UK no matter what. This wasn't a scheduling tactic by Mullen. Also, Jackie lost to UK in the 98 SECW Champ season.

    Next here is a list of all non conference opponents from 1992-2000

    1992
    Texas
    Memphis
    Ark St

    1993
    Tulane
    Ark St
    Mem

    1994
    Mem
    Ark St.
    Tulane

    1995
    Baylor
    NE Louisiana
    Memphis

    1996
    La Tech
    Memphis
    NE Lousiana

    1997
    Memphis
    NE Louisiana
    UCF

    1998
    Memphis
    E Tenn St.
    Ok St

    1999
    Ok St
    MTSU
    Memphis

    2000
    BYU
    Memphis
    MTSU

    So in his first nine years Jackie played a total 3 power 5 teams:

    1992 Texas 6-5
    1995 Baylor 7-4
    1998 Ok St. 5-6 (Beat State SECW Champs)
    1999 Ok St. 5-6
    Notice that Jackie only got 3 non-conference to Mullen's 4 gimmie wins.

  18. #58
    Senior Member THE Bruce Dickinson's Avatar
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    Yeah and notice all the cupcakes, I'm sure he would have scheduled a 4th if it were allowed

  19. #59
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    During sherrill tenure, sec West won 1 natty (1992 bama). During Mullen tenure, sec West won 6 natties, 2 other west teams played in championship game, and bama lost in playoff game.

  20. #60
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson View Post
    Yeah and notice all the cupcakes, I'm sure he would have scheduled a 4th if it were allowed
    those teams werent cupcakes when Jackie took over and were on our level in both money and facilities
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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