Rosebowl vs OM: Who 'won"?

[BeastMan]

I had an interesting discussion with another State fan the other day about this topic. The OM NCAA battle was essentially an OM and their media vs Rosebowl battle, especially pre-sanctions. Steve jumped out early with a flurry of jabs and some power shots. In typical Steve fashion, he starts strutting and gloating selling t-shirts and then the book hits the shelves. While he was right about the scope of the investigation and seemed to be 1 step ahead of the OM folks every step of the way, now it looks different from 10,000 feet.

Let's establish what Steve's biggest "victories" were. First and foremost, the book and the profit he made from said book. Second would be the Freeze scalp he got by discovering the escort call. There is a wide gap to get to third and I'd probably say the profits from t-shirt sales.

Let's look at OM's "victories". They essentially got off when it comes to scholarships. The NCAA had every opportunity to cripple that program for 10 years and they didn't. That's a fact. Another victory for that side of the isle is Freeze basically skated. It's pretty incredible when you look back that OM as an institution and Freeze both came out unscathed. The assistants, like Farrar, got nailed. The third win for the OM side, and it's a big one, is that no one named the booster from the 601 area code. Steve stated numerous times that he wanted to put in print who did what and name names for the historical record. Well, that booster from the 601 area code swung a big enough stick to shut everyone up, Steve included.

It's interesting because you could make a strong argument that Steve won because of how he kept the light shining but the flip-side is that if you take him at his word, all he wanted was the truth and justice to be served. Well, the truth hasn't all come out and justice wasn't a hammer,it was a tickle feather. What Steve got in all actuality was some cash from MSU fans (and I'm not hating on the hustle at all).

The last thought I want to leave with before the board discusses is that am I perhaps looking at this from too close a scope due to proximity. Are there other things that have come out of this that are ultimately good for MSU like the OM media destroying any credibility they have nationally? I don't think a national guy is ever going to put in to print anything they get from an Oxford source ever again.

[msstate7]

The 2016 class that was supposed to challenge for a playoff spot is about to be completely dissolved without ever playing in a bowl. Freeze, who beat saban twice, is gone from OM in shame, and could not even get the OC job for saban after being the latest, greatest a few years back. Steve won even though the NCAA got punked by OM

[GreenheadDawg]

Sorry but I feel like OM won. Equivalent to a cold blooded murderer seen committing the murder while holding the bloody knife in one and yelling his name and address through a bullhorn in the other hand. But he gets charged with manslaughter and serving 16 months. They basically got less than a slap on the hand.

[BeastMan]

The first 2 responses are fascinating because because that's kind of the back and forth we had. The biggest flaw in what Steve needed to "win" and ultimately write a 2nd bestselling book was the NCAA to nail them. You cannot trust anything about the NCAA.

[starkvegasdawg]

Steve was right so he won because all the bears said he was lying. Not his fault the NCAA was a nutless entity.

[Matty Dispatch]

Ultimately, knowing what the sanctions are now, it would have been much better if the NCAA could've waited until mid-Feb to release them. But still....

Their #5 class in 2016 is going to start their careers with no bowl games three straight years - some of the elite talent going to the NFL obviously never going to a bowl game.

Their 2017 and 2018 classes won't be terrible, but they aren't nearly as good as they would've been with Freeze and without a lingering NCAA investigation.

When you consider what Rosebowl did, it's pretty remarkable. When he started this venture, they were coming off a Sugar Bowl win and back-to-back Egg Bowls. Freeze had won 7, 8, 9 and 10 games in his first four years. Since then, they are 11-13, they will not go bowling at least three straight years (twice not receiving SEC bowl money), and he got their coach who'd beaten Bama twice booted in favor of a complete unknown coach.

No, Rosebowl didn't take down Ole Miss. But this is a long standing 100+ year war. He did drop a bomb on them and they are now in recovery. And for that, regardless of the content in his book, whatever money he made off the book is good compensation from MSU fans for said bomb.

[BeastMan]

Steve was right so he won because all the bears said he was lying. Not his fault the NCAA was a nutless entity.

Devil's advocate: What did being "right" get him? OM and Freeze got off while Steve endured death threats to he and his family. He definitely deserved the profit he got from books and shirts but I'd imagine that is done at this point.

[Matty Dispatch]

Devil's advocate: What did being "right" get him? OM and Freeze got off while Steve endured death threats to he and his family. He definitely deserved the profit he got from books and shirts but I'd imagine that is done at this point.

He completely restored his credibility with the MSU fanbase....which is his target demographic. Before all of this, many looked at him like a dope who worked for the Swan. He became arguably the most beloved media member we have.

[BeastMan]

Ultimately, knowing what the sanctions are now, it would have been much better if the NCAA could've waited until mid-Feb to release them. But still....

Their #5 class in 2016 is going to start their careers with no bowl games three straight years - some of the elite talent going to the NFL obviously never going to a bowl game.

Their 2017 and 2018 classes won't be terrible, but they aren't nearly as good as they would've been with Freeze and without a lingering NCAA investigation.

When you consider what Rosebowl did, it's pretty remarkable. When he started this venture, they were coming off a Sugar Bowl win and back-to-back Egg Bowls. Freeze had won 7, 8, 9 and 10 games in his first four years. Since then, they are 11-13, they will not go bowling at least three straight years (twice not receiving SEC bowl money), and he got their coach who'd beaten Bama twice booted in favor of a complete unknown coach.

No, Rosebowl didn't take down Ole Miss. But this is a long standing 100+ year war. He did drop a bomb on them and they are now in recovery. And for that, regardless of the content in his book, whatever money he made off the book is good compensation from MSU fans for said bomb.

Good post. Can't really disagree with anything in there. My counter would be that if everything you just said was the MOAB and the effects to the program ended up being as minimal as they are, does it really slow anything down grand scheme? There is still an active lawsuit against 2 MSU players, the 601 area booster has not and will never be named after Steve went through every avenue of state government to make FOIA rules be followed, and the RR booster has been reinstated by the school pending appeal. Which oh by the way could reverse the bowl ban. From 10,000 feet it looks like all the pawns suffered through this thing while the big fish suffered no recourse.

[Matty Dispatch]

Good post. Can't really disagree with anything in there. My counter would be that if everything you just said was the MOAB and the effects to the program ended up being as minimal as they are, does it really slow anything down grand scheme? There is still an active lawsuit against 2 MSU players, the 601 area booster has not and will never be named after Steve went through every avenue of state government to make FOIA rules be followed, and the RR booster has been reinstated by the school pending appeal. Which oh by the way could reverse the bowl ban. From 10,000 feet it looks like all the pawns suffered through this thing while the big fish suffered no recourse.

It was a bomb, not the mother of all bombs. I don't think anyone would say Rosebowl didn't do his absolute best to investigate this story. It wasn't even his job - he did it on the side. But he took the mantle anyway. Ultimately he was not the judge or jury. He wasn't even the prosecutor, just a lone PI being funded more or less peanuts by people who shared his own interests.

There is an argument to be made that if Rosebowl had not continually pressed the issue, then the sanctions would have been much less....because the NCAA has no spine and/or lack of ability to properly investigate. It's hard to say that Rosebowl didn't do everything within his power to bust Ole Miss. Unfortunately he only took out a few people and OM lives to fight another day, wounded but not unconscious.

[ShotgunDawg]

Rosebowl easily won.

He can’t control what the NCAA does and he has probably profited 50K or so due to it.

Freeze is gone
Barney gone
2 year bowl ban
Transfers
Disassociated boosters
Etc

Now perhaps he didn’t get the Treaty of Versailles, but he clearly won the war

[msstate7]

Would OM rather have freeze or Luke as HC? If the answer is freeze, rose bowl won

[Liverpooldawg]

Rosebowl won, and it?s not really debatable. Some of you act like they got no punishment because it wasn?t as bad as you wanted it to be. If you look at where they were vs where they are now, they got hammered. This one thing tells you all you need to know: they were bitching and moaning and wanting to run Matt Luke off from his position coach job. Now he is their head coach. They had pay him more than we are paying Moorhead too.

[Ezsoil]

Well I would say they both won.....Steve got noteriety and acclaim on the national scale along with the book ..anhos biggest win is The Freeze scalp...... OM won because they are now emboldened and know that no matter what they do, there won't be any consequences for their blatant cheating. The COI has clearly sent a clear message that it's open season on whatever tactics you want use to induce recruits.

[BeastMan]

Well I would say they both won.....Steve got noteriety and acclaim on the national scale along with the book ..anhos biggest win is The Freeze scalp...... OM won because they are now emboldened and know that no matter what they do, there won't be any consequences for their blatant cheating. The COI has clearly sent a clear message that it's open season on whatever tactics you want use to induce recruits.

This is where we pretty much left it because you can make good arguments both ways. The very end of your post is was worries me. That’s a long-term outcome much bigger than anything now.

[BeastMan]

Would OM rather have freeze or Luke as HC? If the answer is freeze, rose bowl won

w

While I get your point, it’s much more nuanced than that.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I imagine Freeze is missing that 5 million a year...he also has lost his "honor".....

[Turfdawg67]

Rosebowl won, and it?s not really debatable. Some of you act like they got no punishment because it wasn?t as bad as you wanted it to be. If you look at where they were vs where they are now, they got hammered. This one thing tells you all you need to know: they were bitching and moaning and wanting to run Matt Luke off from his position coach job. Now he is their head coach. They had pay him more than we are paying Moorhead too.

For the millionth time... YOU are about the only one that thinks OM got hammered. Don't know why you continue to argue this point when hardly NO ONE else agrees with you.

[turkish]

I thought one of the OM media member wrote an article that named the 601 booster. It was a little while after the Jackson jambalaya article outed him.

[Liverpooldawg]

For the millionth time... YOU are about the only one that thinks OM got hammered. Don't know why you continue to argue this point when hardly NO ONE else agrees with you.

Actually a lot of people agree with me. You need to listen to people other than MSU folks, esp those MSU people that post on the net. Would you rather have Matt Luke as your coach than Freeze? If you do then you are correct. If you wouldn't then I'm correct. The emotional response, and I had it as well at first, is that they got off light because it wasn't as bad as we thought it would be. When you actually look at the total picture, it hurt them bad, and it's not over for them either.