Chipper will be elected to HOF tomorrow. What percentage of the vote will he get?

[louisvilledawg]

Also, a fun discussion:

Recently I've seen videos of Palmeiro trying to make a comeback. I think he's serious- though I doubt he makes it back (think he's 55.)

Do you think he's trying to make a comeback because he sincerely thinks he can play at an MLB level?

Or do you think he's just trying to make a comeback in order to reset his HOF clock and hopefully let the substance issue awareness get further and further from our perception of him?

[Commercecomet24]

Also, a fun discussion:

Recently I've seen videos of Palmeiro trying to make a comeback. I think he's serious- though I doubt he makes it back (think he's 55.)

Do you think he's trying to make a comeback because he sincerely thinks he can play at an MLB level?

Or do you think he's just trying to make a comeback in order to reset his HOF clock and hopefully let the substance issue awareness get further and further from our perception of him?

I read about that too. I honestly think he's trying to reset the clock. Without the substance issue he would already be in. Had such a sweet swing. It's a shame.

[Commercecomet24]

Some other interesting numbers in the election:

Manny Ramirez - 22%
Barry Bonds - 64%
Roger Clemens - 64%

[parabrave]

Would like to see Crimedog and Sheffield in.

[shoeless joe]

Speaking of Bonds, i heard somewhere if you were to take all of Bonds' homeruns and turn them into Ks, he would still have fewer strikeouts than Alex Rodriguez. Just a fun fact for you. Dude was one of the best hitters of all time.

He really was one of the greatest hitters ever. He never needed to cheat. His flaw was being mentally and socially week. If he could have overcome those insecurities and just played the game he would be revered with mantle and mays.

I was a bonds fan until he went all mutant....and made the comment that he was better than ted Williams because he had hit more homers, without regard for the fact that teddy ballgame missed years of his prime fighting for our country.

[Commercecomet24]

He really was one of the greatest hitters ever. He never needed to cheat. His flaw was being mentally and socially week. If he could have overcome those insecurities and just played the game he would be revered with mantle and mays.

I was a bonds fan until he went all mutant....and made the comment that he was better than ted Williams because he had hit more homers, without regard for the fact that teddy ballgame missed years of his prime fighting for our country.

Great post! I agree with everything you said. Bonds was a tremendous all around baseball player, one of the best ever, and then he blew it. Williams missed almost 5 years due to military service. No telling what numbers he wouldve finished with.

[Tbonewannabe]

He really was one of the greatest hitters ever. He never needed to cheat. His flaw was being mentally and socially weak. If he could have overcome those insecurities and just played the game he would be revered with mantle and mays.

I was a bonds fan until he went all mutant....and made the comment that he was better than ted Williams because he had hit more homers, without regard for the fact that teddy ballgame missed years of his prime fighting for our country.

That was definitely his downfall. He was the best all around player in the game but couldn't stand McGwire and Sosa getting all of the attention. I do wonder how much the roids helped his batting average. He had a great eye but I imagine increasing his swing speed probably helped get to some pitches he might not have before he went HULK. The guy still hardly struck out while hitting like that. He had a couple of the best seasons in baseball history. If he had a little more help, he would have had several rings.

[Cooterpoot]

Bonds is a Hall of Famer. So is Clemons. I really don't care about the roids.

[Tbonewannabe]

Bonds is a Hall of Famer. So is Clemons. I really don't care about the roids.

What is hilarious is Bagwell is now in the Hall. That guy looked like the poster child for roids but he never got busted so I guess it is ok. Raffy catches a lot of hell for the finger wagging and then failing a test. I actually believe him because he was tested a couple of weeks after his failure and he was clean. It is known that if you are a regular user that you can fail months after you completely quit. Other than consistency, Raffy didn't look like he ever did roids. His whole penalty is based on Jose naming everyone on the Rangers.

[Commercecomet24]

What is hilarious is Bagwell is now in the Hall. That guy looked like the poster child for roids but he never got busted so I guess it is ok. Raffy catches a lot of hell for the finger wagging and then failing a test. I actually believe him because he was tested a couple of weeks after his failure and he was clean. It is known that if you are a regular user that you can fail months after you completely quit. Other than consistency, Raffy didn't look like he ever did roids. His whole penalty is based on Jose naming everyone on the Rangers.

I don't doubt steroid use was pretty common, but Canseco is a nut job. You ever watch him in an interview he gives some of the most incoherent, rambling answers I've ever heard.

[Tbonewannabe]

I don't doubt steroid use was pretty common, but Canseco is a nut job. You ever watch him in an interview he gives some of the most incoherent, rambling answers I've ever heard.

I am sure roids were fairly common but I don't trust anything that guy says. It might be a conspiracy theory but I could see Raffy getting a "positive test" after he wagged his finger. Baseball was sacrificing someone with a name and he was just too convenient. Raffy was probably retiring at the end of that year or one more. He was just trying to get to 3,000 hits at that point and the Os would have let him play 1st or DH until he got it.

[Commercecomet24]

I am sure roids were fairly common but I don't trust anything that guy says. It might be a conspiracy theory but I could see Raffy getting a "positive test" after he wagged his finger. Baseball was sacrificing someone with a name and he was just too convenient. Raffy was probably retiring at the end of that year or one more. He was just trying to get to 3,000 hits at that point and the Os would have let him play 1st or DH until he got it.

Yeah Canseco is out there. He has zero credibility and he claims baseball "blackballed" him cause he told the truth about steroids. I sure wish Raffy could get in the hall.

The only thing you can be sure of with Canseco is that he and Mcgwire did steroids.

[Tbonewannabe]

Yeah Canseco is out there. He has zero credibility and he claims baseball "blackballed" him cause he told the truth about steroids. I sure wish Raffy could get in the hall.

The only thing you can be sure of with Canseco is that he and Mcgwire did steroids.

I am sure Raffy will eventually get in once they let either Bonds or Clemens in. There isn't a handful of people that have 500 HRs and 3k hits to go along with his gold gloves. The only knock on him was he wasn't ever the best at his position and he never won a World Series.

[Commercecomet24]

I am sure Raffy will eventually get in once they let either Bonds or Clemens in. There isn't a handful of people that have 500 HRs and 3k hits to go along with his gold gloves. The only knock on him was he wasn't ever the best at his position and he never won a World Series.

He has HOF numbers for sure. Only 4 other players have 500 HRS and 3K hits, it's elite company. I'd always hoped, early in their careers, that him and Will both would get in. The injuries took their toll on Will and the steroid allegations got Raffy. Sure would've been nice to see both of them in the Hall even though they weren't best buds lol

[shoeless joe]

That was definitely his downfall. He was the best all around player in the game but couldn't stand McGwire and Sosa getting all of the attention. I do wonder how much the roids helped his batting average. He had a great eye but I imagine increasing his swing speed probably helped get to some pitches he might not have before he went HULK. The guy still hardly struck out while hitting like that. He had a couple of the best seasons in baseball history. If he had a little more help, he would have had several rings.

His swing was pretty awesome from day 1. I don't think the roids helped him there but definitely helped in the power department. Bonds did an interview about his swing with rick sutcliffe one time and it was amazing listening to him describe how he focused on one spot and when he got a pitch there he just didn't miss it.

In today's game the only guy that even remotely has the hands and a similar swing to bonds is Robinson cano. They both have/had the ability to keep their hands inside a ball that was thrown right off their hip and barrel it up. I love watching cano hit.

[Commercecomet24]

His swing was pretty awesome from day 1. I don't think the roids helped him there but definitely helped in the power department. Bonds did an interview about his swing with rick sutcliffe one time and it was amazing listening to him describe how he focused on one spot and when he got a pitch there he just didn't miss it.

In today's game the only guy that even remotely has the hands and a similar swing to bonds is Robinson cano. They both have/had the ability to keep their hands inside a ball that was thrown right off their hip and barrel it up. I love watching cano hit.

Great point. Most mere mortals when they try to get to that pitch either breaks their bat or if they get the barrell to it they pull it foul. Cano has great hands just like Bonds did. Another one that could get that pitch and hammer it was Edgar Martinez. He hit one in an All Star game at Fenway on a 97mph fastball way in off the plate. Pulled his hands in and just hammered it. I saw him do that numerous times. Dude was a great hitter, with bad knees and back, and couldn't play defense. But he could pure rake.

[Commercecomet24]

Chipper voted in with 97.2 percent

[Commercecomet24]

4 elected, Chipper, Vlad, Thome and Trevor Hoffman

[Todd4State]

What is hilarious is Bagwell is now in the Hall. That guy looked like the poster child for roids but he never got busted so I guess it is ok. Raffy catches a lot of hell for the finger wagging and then failing a test. I actually believe him because he was tested a couple of weeks after his failure and he was clean. It is known that if you are a regular user that you can fail months after you completely quit. Other than consistency, Raffy didn't look like he ever did roids. His whole penalty is based on Jose naming everyone on the Rangers.

And Craig Biggio for that matter. I guess Canseco didn't know any of the Astros players at that time. One guy the Astros players most certainly knew was Ken Caminiti who was one of the biggest steroid users in the game- and I would be pretty surprised if he didn't share some "work out tips" with his teammates. It does show how completely two faced the media is- and why again for the second time in this thread I will say that the media should not vote on HOF members. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey, Jr. used at some point in their careers as well. And then there is the fact that they have inducted God knows how many players that have used greenies and whatever else through the years.

Commerce- Canseco blackballed himself because he didn't work on his game like the other geats at that time- McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, etc. and became a DH only guy who struck out too much despite the fact that he had legit five tool HOF talent. Of course, with Jose it's always someone else's fault- so his plan was to take down everyone in the game he was jealous of. Not only is he a nutjob- he's a worthless POS.

On Palmeiro- I'm very sure he's serious about a comeback but I can't see him as anything other than a role player at this point. I think he can still hit- but I have serious doubts about how he and his body are going to handle a 162 game grind. I agree that he is trying to reset his HOF clock- so if he is able to make it to Memorial Day for someone he can still retire and accomplish what he set out to do. I'm not sure that he has to do this though- I agree that all of the steroid users will be let in eventually. Probably by the veterans committee and people that have actually played baseball and know what the hell they are talking about.

On the group this year- I disagree that it's a weak class. Chipper is a no brainer and one of the top 10 third basemen of all time and probably one of the top 5 switch hitters. Trevor Hoffman is one of the best closers of all time. Jim Thome is a 500+ home run hitter. Edgar Martinez is considered by many to be the best DH of all time. Vlad Guerrero had one of the best outfield arms in baseball history and was pretty close to Roberto Clemente class in that regard and is borderline in the HOF magic numbers of 3K hits and 500+ home runs.

[Todd4State]

He has HOF numbers for sure. Only 4 other players have 500 HRS and 3K hits, it's elite company. I'd always hoped, early in their careers, that him and Will both would get in. The injuries took their toll on Will and the steroid allegations got Raffy. Sure would've been nice to see both of them in the Hall even though they weren't best buds lol

I hate that the HOF has become so much about magic numbers and as you can tell- public groupthink essentially based on hearsay in some cases regarding steroids.

To me, if I think a player is a HOF player I'm voting him in regardless of what he did off the field and regardless of their numbers. Will Clark was the best first baseman in the game in the late 80's and argueably the early 1990's. Injuries taking a toll on his career are no different than injuries taking a toll on Sandy Koufax and Dizzy Dean's career- and yes, I think both of them belong in without question. And I would have no problem with Clark getting in. And as far as Palmeiro- 3K hits and 500 home runs in a career get you in.

Heck, I think if you are the best pinch hitter in MLB history, best set-up guy, best whatever- put them in.