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Thread: Mason decommits and commits to UPig

  1. #141
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Meh... they were more talented in 2014 and 2015 imo. Both teams had talent though for sure.

    We were more talented this year
    I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent

  2. #142
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent
    We definitely should have won in 2014.

  3. #143
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We definitely should have won in 2014.
    Yeah that game was a total cluster

  4. #144
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUSK View Post
    The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

    (premature... still crunching...)
    So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

    And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

    But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

    The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

    Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

    1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
    2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
    3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
    4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?

  5. #145
    TheDynastyIsDead TUSK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

    And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

    But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

    The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

    Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

    1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
    2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
    3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
    4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?
    Here ya go, buddy....

    Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


    TEAM RTG SEC OA
    UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
    LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
    UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
    AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
    UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
    UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
    A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
    OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
    SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
    AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
    KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
    MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
    MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
    VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

    I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...
    Last edited by TUSK; 01-23-2018 at 10:28 PM.
    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  6. #146
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUSK View Post
    Here ya go, buddy....

    Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


    TEAM RTG SEC OA
    UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
    LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
    UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
    AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
    UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
    UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
    A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
    OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
    SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
    AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
    KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
    MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
    MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
    VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

    I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...
    Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

  7. #147
    TheDynastyIsDead TUSK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.
    You're welcome.... if the numbers hadn't agreed with your synopsis, this thread coulda gone this way:

    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  8. #148
    TheDynastyIsDead TUSK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.
    Yeah, this was the biggest outlier I found... Suspect OOC scheduling was the cause, I think...
    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  9. #149
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    Anybody who thinks of roster has the talent our roster has does not understand football. Don?t take my word for it, look at nfl projections the next two years. Yet, according to recruiting rankings, they have signed more talent than us the last 5 years.

    Also, tusk chart above proves my point. We have the same amount of sec wins and more overall wins despite much lower rankings. The truth is, they have not outrecruited us like so many people on here claim.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent
    We should've won in 2014, but they were just flat out better than us in 2015.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Anybody who thinks of roster has the talent our roster has does not understand football. Don?t take my word for it, look at nfl projections the next two years. Yet, according to recruiting rankings, they have signed more talent than us the last 5 years.

    Also, tusk chart above proves my point. We have the same amount of sec wins and more overall wins despite much lower rankings. The truth is, they have not outrecruited us like so many people on here claim.
    Dont say that. Results dont matter is what they are rated by a bunch of ''experts'' who never watch them play live or know anything about them other than a few buzzwords to say on signing day

  12. #152
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwolf View Post
    We should've won in 2014, but they were just flat out better than us in 2015.
    I?m just still pissed we lost on Daks senior night.

  13. #153
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Here?s something else to think about.. Based on tusks chart we have almost identical records in sec and overall as AM who on paper supposedly has way more talent.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    I?m just still pissed we lost on Daks senior night.
    Yea, that loss was really bad. The Egg Bowl on Dak's senior night with the Sugar Bowl on the line, and they absolutely skull drug us....the game was over with 10+ minutes left in the second quarter.

  15. #155
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwolf View Post
    Yea, that loss was really bad. The Egg Bowl on Dak's senior night with the Sugar Bowl on the line, and they absolutely skull drug us....the game was over with 10+ minutes left in the second quarter.
    Yeah that ones gonna bug me til I die. Hate Dak had to go out like that. Winning the bowl game helped some. At least his very last game was a win. But dang to lose that one.

    And with all the rumors of danny boy looking at other jobs during Egg Bowl week makes it even harder to swallow.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Yeah that ones gonna bug me til I die. Hate Dak had to go out like that. Winning the bowl game helped some. At least his very last game was a win. But dang to lose that one.
    Thats what happens when your head coach had one foot out the door and his OL coach was such an insufferable asshole that we had to move a TE to LT cause we couldnt sign a decent O lineman

  17. #157
    TheDynastyIsDead TUSK's Avatar
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    Here are my BASIC, low brow points:

    Save the Hugh Freeze anomaly, recent recruiting by OM and MSU are fairly similar... OM has been fortunate to woo* some cats to campus that helped them steal a few, but also lose some they shouldn't... MSU, meanwhile, with less "high end talent" has been more consistent/conservative in not losing to many 'dogs, but not upsetting many of note, either...

    Dig on this: Once you get below 5* & high 4* recruits and/or below the ~90 point range, the accuracy of such rankings is extremely volatile...

    I'll rephrase: Accuracy of recruiting ranking is directly proportional to the rank...

    I'm on about my 17th drink (SWIDT?), so, I dunno if I'm makin' any sense....
    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  18. #158
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    This thread is going around the world... reminds me of losing Paul gainer thread

  19. #159
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUSK View Post
    Here are my BASIC, low brow points:

    Save the Hugh Freeze anomaly, recent recruiting by OM and MSU are fairly similar... OM has been fortunate to woo* some cats to campus that helped them steal a few, but also lose some they shouldn't... MSU, meanwhile, with less "high end talent" has been more consistent/conservative in not losing to many 'dogs, but not upsetting many of note, either...

    Dig on this: Once you get below 5* & high 4* recruits and/or below the ~90 point range, the accuracy of such rankings is extremely volatile...

    I'll rephrase: Accuracy of recruiting ranking is directly proportional to the rank...

    I'm on about my 17th drink (SWIDT?), so, I dunno if I'm makin' any sense....
    I concur and I?m not drunk lol

  20. #160
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    This thread is going around the world... reminds me of losing Paul gainer thread
    Dude you?re hitting on all cylinders tonight!

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