Do You Have to Be Ruthless to be A High Level CFB Recruiter?

[ShotgunDawg]

Just reading Talty's article today on Kirby Smart & his mind set in recruiting. http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/in...form=hootsuite

It got me thinking about what it takes to be an elite recruiter in college football.

Do you have to be ruthless?

Is it simply about the willingness to do what others won't?

I think about Moorhead's unwillingness to recruit Penn State players, & regardless of if they would have paid us any attention, if that gave us an insight as to the limits that Moorhead would go to land a recruit?

Not inferring anything but just wanted have a quality discussion on this.

Do you have be a Kirby Smart/Hugh Freeze type personality that is willing to abandon morals & friendships in an effort to recruit at all costs?

or

Can nice guys with quality personalities recruit at a high level?

Here are two intriguing exerts from the article

[Bothrops]

You need to be ruthless to recruit in the SEC.

[BorneDawg]

Well I think you can if you have the coaching ability to take advantage of talent that maybe isn't known. Find the overlooked. If it comes down to being of good Christian character and not selling your soul to get some recruits and having to work harder to out coach and work opponents or selling out and cheating and running a dirty program of poor integrity then I choose the first. I know I differ than a lot on this board who are ok with stooping to tactics like freeze but it one reason I like our Dawgs so much is walked the walk of a family with integrity and good moral values. If our university ever changed to one like tsun then I would have to rethink my affiliation with them.

[BorneDawg]

I meant to put and take a the chance of not winning as much by doing it the right way

[BrunswickDawg]

I think you are making bad comparisons. Smart was coming from within the SEC, and UGa and Bama are always head to head for recruits. So Smart using intel from Bama to sway kids to UGa is a fair tactic, and I don?t think gets outside of the bounds of recruiting. Dan was basically doing the same with his attempts to poach our guys.

Joe Mo was coming from an area that has few ties with the SEC recruiting area, with a class pretty much built. No reason for him to pick apart PSU?s class.

Do you need to be relentless and always looking for legit advantages? Yes. Do you need to be a shady, dishonest, Hugh Freeze type who will throw out players when they aren?t useful anymore? No. Say what you will about Mullen - he got some outstanding players being honest and forthright about the expectations he had for them. But, Dan was lazy, and hates recruiting and it showed via staff attitudes toward recruiting. You can?t be that way and be super successful. I think Joe Mo will do better because he is building a staff that recruits.

[1bigdawg]

After reading the article, the only thing that was unethical is telling a 3 star receiver he could come after him if he got a head coaching job. Telling a recruit, "Hey, you're number 3 on their board but number one on mine happens every day in recruiting. Example: "They made me feel the love." (Gag.)

He is winning now with Fromm and Richt's recruits. Richt is a great recruiter, maybe the best. He just has never managed to win the big ones.

Note: I know that Georgia has a great recruiting class this year.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think you are making bad comparisons. Smart was coming from within the SEC, and UGa and Bama are always head to head for recruits. So Smart using intel from Bama to sway kids to UGa is a fair tactic, and I don?t think gets outside of the bounds of recruiting. Dan was basically doing the same with his attempts to poach our guys.

Joe Mo was coming from an area that has few ties with the SEC recruiting area, with a class pretty much built. No reason for him to pick apart PSU?s class.

Do you need to be relentless and always looking for legit advantages? Yes. Do you need to be a shady, dishonest, Hugh Freeze type who will throw out players when they aren?t useful anymore? No. Say what you will about Mullen - he got some outstanding players being honest and forthright about the expectations he had for them. But, Dan was lazy, and hates recruiting and it showed via staff attitudes toward recruiting. You can?t be that way and be super successful. I think Joe Mo will do better because he is building a staff that recruits.

Great post.

I'm kind of looking at this Lovett situation in regards to Moorhead's recruiting ability.

I fully expect Lovett to sign with Ole Miss, so I won't consider it a failure by Moorhead to get Lovett back in the boat, but what if is able to pull Lovett? That would give me YUGE confidence that this guy has some secret sauce in recruiting.

Keeping the WRs told me that Moorhead could recruit enough to maintain momentum & calm fear.
Getting Lovett back would tell me that his has the capability of reversing momentum & figuring out a way.
The 2019 class will obviously tell us more than anything.

[gravedigger]

Just reading Talty's article today on Kirby Smart & his mind set in recruiting. http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/in...form=hootsuite

It got me thinking about what it takes to be an elite recruiter in college football.

Do you have to be ruthless?

Is it simply about the willingness to do what others won't?

I think about Moorhead's unwillingness to recruit Penn State players, & regardless of if they would have paid us any attention, if that gave us an insight as to the limits that Moorhead would go to land a recruit?

Not inferring anything but just wanted have a quality discussion on this.

Do you have be a Kirby Smart/Hugh Freeze type personality that is willing to abandon morals & friendships in an effort to recruit at all costs?

or

Can nice guys with quality personalities recruit at a high level?

Here are two intriguing exerts from the article

No but you have to be realistic about what kids will sign if you don?t participate in that game just as those who DO must understand that they will have som serious issues with kids who only commit to coach who act that way.

I believe Mullen did get out recruited in the aspect of not being overly aggressive, but he made up for it in researching the right players for his system at times.

Ruthless means different things to different people. A school should keep its promises to the kids even if the kids don?t practice the same.

[Coach34]

You need to be ruthless to recruit in the SEC.

This is the correct answer

[ShotgunDawg]

This is the correct answer

This is my #1 question about Moorhead.

I couldn't care less about his southern connections & if he is from Mississippi, as I don't believe that truly matters.

What I do think that matters is the ruthlessness you are able to stomach in the name of landing a recruit. Can you stomach & have the relentlessness to thrive in that part of the job?

On a scale of 1-10, I think Don was about a 4 or 5 on this trait with Smart, Freeze, Dabo, etc being 9s or 10s.

I don't think losing a recruit kept Don awake at night as he believed he was such a good coach that he was above that.

I hope Moorhead is at least a 6 here. Something to move the needle forward.

[Maroonthirteen]

Do the bears leave backpacks stuffed with cash laying around the OM Inn?

[maroonmania]

This is my #1 question about Moorhead.

I couldn't care less about his southern connections & if he is from Mississippi, as I don't believe that truly matters.

What I do think that matters is the ruthlessness you are able to stomach in the name of landing a recruit. Can you stomach & have the relentlessness to thrive in that part of the job?

On a scale of 1-10, I think Don was about a 4 or 5 on this trait with Smart, Freeze, Dabo, etc being 9s or 10s.

I don't think losing a recruit kept Don awake at night as he believed he was such a good coach that he was above that.

I hope Moorhead is at least a 6 here. Something to move the needle forward.

Smart didn't do anything to Bama and Saban that Saban would not have done to Smart if put in the same situation. As said though, JoMo trying to pull recruits from the Penn St. area is not really a valid comparison to a border state recruiting battle like GA and AL. Biggest issue JoMo will have to deal with, like Mullen before him, is recruiting in a state with a lot of low income people where the other primary recruiter in the state is the dirtiest recruiter in a conference full of dirty recruiters. Lots of cutthroat recruiting in the SEC but OM is so bad because lots of their boosters get their self-esteem from getting personally involved in recruiting and many would rather win a recruiting battle than an actual game on the field because for them, its all about image. The other issue with OM is that, they know as well as anyone, they have some unique disadvantages when recruiting minorities due to their culture and traditions. Therefore, they have to sweeten the pot that much more in a lot of cases to compensate and then they just work the politics if they end up having to deal with the NCAA. And as the COI results showed, if they know anything its how to work the politics of a situation. Who else could have stuck their finger in the eye of NCAA investigators for 3 years, have 21 level 1 violations and get off with little more than a slap on the wrist? We have at least seen over the years that a lot of recruits that are looking for a payout to play don't have the work ethic and character to develop like they should in college anyway. For us, good ol' fashion hard work in recruiting can still get us a good recruiting class though. Heck, Mullen reeled in some nice classes without us doing anything too out of the way and I don't think anyone would ever accuse Mullen's staff of outworking a lot of other schools.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

Ruthless no. Tenacious yes.

[TUSK]

I don't take issue with Kirby using evaluation information gleaned from his time at Bammer to "negatively recruit"...

Sounds like he's just doing his job, to me...

note: I didn't click the link... just read the text (I assumed they were the same)...

[5049]

You all are giving coaches way too much credit. Recruits are the ones who allow themselves to be poached. It is not like the coach is some evil warlord telling all the poor helpless recruits what to do. They are big boys.

[Todd4State]

Well I think you can if you have the coaching ability to take advantage of talent that maybe isn't known. Find the overlooked. If it comes down to being of good Christian character and not selling your soul to get some recruits and having to work harder to out coach and work opponents or selling out and cheating and running a dirty program of poor integrity then I choose the first. I know I differ than a lot on this board who are ok with stooping to tactics like freeze but it one reason I like our Dawgs so much is walked the walk of a family with integrity and good moral values. If our university ever changed to one like tsun then I would have to rethink my affiliation with them.

I don't think very many of our fans want to recruit like Ole Miss.

I have a HUGE problem trying to use Christianity in a way to explain cheating or to deflect general wrongdoing. I know a few Ole Miss fans that didn't like it when Freeze used Chritianity in that way either.

I don't think we should go out and try to buy out recruits from Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Texas, Clemson, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. That's going to get us in trouble.

Now, that said I DO advocate driving 80 in a 70 in recruiting on Mississippi players. We HAVE TO do that to stay relevant. I don't like it personally, because I would much rather do it on the up and up. But I also recognize that driving too slow can result in a car wreck by not going with the flow of traffic. The NCAA has shown that much like most police officers allowing drivers to go 10 over they're going to give a pass on most in state recruiting battles. Just don't cross state lines into a territory that isn't yours. That's why Ole Miss didn't get in trouble for CJ Johnson. It's why Ole Miss turned MSU in over Leo Lewis and the NCAA didn't and isn't going to do anything to us either- and in fact has cleared MSU of any wrongdoing. So, no one give me the "MSU is going to get hammered because we're poor ol' MSU".

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't think very many of our fans want to recruit like Ole Miss.

I have a HUGE problem trying to use Christianity in a way to explain cheating or to deflect general wrongdoing. I know a few Ole Miss fans that didn't like it when Freeze used Chritianity in that way either.

I don't think we should go out and try to buy out recruits from Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Texas, Clemson, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. That's going to get us in trouble.

Now, that said I DO advocate driving 80 in a 70 in recruiting on Mississippi players. We HAVE TO do that to stay relevant. I don't like it personally, because I would much rather do it on the up and up. But I also recognize that driving too slow can result in a car wreck by not going with the flow of traffic. The NCAA has shown that much like most police officers allowing drivers to go 10 over they're going to give a pass on most in state recruiting battles. Just don't cross state lines into a territory that isn't yours. That's why Ole Miss didn't get in trouble for CJ Johnson. It's why Ole Miss turned MSU in over Leo Lewis and the NCAA didn't and isn't going to do anything to us either- and in fact has cleared MSU of any wrongdoing. So, no one give me the "MSU is going to get hammered because we're poor ol' MSU".

100% agree.

I’d expand the 80 in a 70 to Louisiana as well. We have a good reputation there and need to find a way to land the Clyde Hellaire Edwards, Stephen Sullivans, and Cushenberries of the world. We’ve gotten enough good players out of Louisiana that I think we’d get the benefit of the doubt. LSU surely does in Mississippi. I’m not advocating for doing with the 5 star, #1 players in Louisiana but rather with the 4 star, good players that LSU has slow played. Gotta get over the hump with those guys.

Can’t do it in Alabama or Memphis though. Fat DeVinner and Auburn would crush us

[Todd4State]

You all are giving coaches way too much credit. Recruits are the ones who allow themselves to be poached. It is not like the coach is some evil warlord telling all the poor helpless recruits what to do. They are big boys.

Recruiting ultimately is a selling job. It's not like selling cars- but it is selling a football program and a University. And a big part of that is the relationship that is formed between the player and family and the recruiter/coach.

The relationship part is where Dan and his country club failed A LOT. In fact, if we fix that it will help us out almost as much as Ole Miss going on probation. Don't believe me? Look at the highly rated in state players MSU was able to land during the height of the Hugh Freeze cheating era and look at what side of the ball a majority of them played on- it was the defensive side of the ball. I believe that was because the defensive coaches- despite the fact that we changed our LB coach almost every year- were able to land many of the highly rated defensive players. Some that Ole Miss wanted very badly and offered a lot of money too- and despite that they still chose MSU. So, were our boosters just paying defensive players like Chris Jones, Jeffrey Simmons, Kobe Jones, LEO LEWIS, Willie Gay, Jamal Peters, Mark McLaurin, Fletcher Adams and others? Or did they choose MSU over Ole Miss because the coaches among other things had a good relationship with them? More than likely the defensive players were more than happy to take Ole Miss's money and then go to MSU to play for a coach that they liked and felt like they cared about them.

And then loook at the position groups we missed out on a lot in state- WR, TE, and OL. It's not a coincidence. And because of that I believe that if Moorhead is able to improve the relationships between the offensive coaches and recruits while maintaining the recruiting relationships on the defensive side, that alone will make a HUGE difference for us in recruiting.

So, do you have to be ruthless to be successful in recruiting? Sometimes. For us it's going to be with in state players we want that Ole Miss also wants. But it's mainly about relationships between the players and coaches and how well they sell the University and program.

[Todd4State]

100% agree.

I’d expand the 80 in a 70 to Louisiana as well. We have a good reputation there and need to find a way to land the Clyde Hellaire Edwards, Stephen Sullivans, and Cushenberries of the world. We’ve gotten enough good players out of Louisiana that I think we’d get the benefit of the doubt. LSU surely does in Mississippi. I’m not advocating for doing with the 5 star, #1 players in Louisiana but rather with the 4 star, good players that LSU has slow played. Gotta get over the hump with those guys.

Can’t do it in Alabama or Memphis though. Fat DeVinner and Auburn would crush us

I think the best strategy for us in Louisiana is to figure out who LSU wants and who they don't. The guys that they don't want are guys that we probably won't have to pay for because we are in the SEC and we have a good reputation with local players. We may be getting there- but I don't want to push LSU especially with Orgeron there who eats, sleeps and breathes recruiting and I could see us potentially getting in trouble there. It's not worth poking the Tiger so to speak especially when we probably don't have to if we're careful.

[5049]

I think the best strategy for us in Louisiana is to figure out who LSU wants and who they don't. The guys that they don't want are guys that we probably won't have to pay for because we are in the SEC and we have a good reputation with local players. We may be getting there- but I don't want to push LSU especially with Orgeron there who eats, sleeps and breathes recruiting and I could see us potentially getting in trouble there. It's not worth poking the Tiger so to speak especially when we probably don't have to if we're careful.

Same in Alabama. It?s simple. Don?t compete with the instate schools, but be the first backup.

Some don?t like playing second fiddle. Well, one step at a time. Let?s go win the SEC (we?ve gotten close), then start reaching for more.