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Thread: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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    Senior Member BeardoMSU's Avatar
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    Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Reviews are coming in today.....overwhelmingly positive.

    I'm giddy with excitement.

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    I am trying my best to go in as spoiler free as possible. I know people are saying it might be the best Star Wars movie yet. I am super pumped and we are planning on going Saturday.

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    Senior Member Prediction? Pain.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    I am trying my best to go in as spoiler free as possible.
    Same here. I don't want to know jack about jack before seeing it. I glanced at a couple of "initial reactions" over the weekend and that's enough for me.

    I'm going to have to be mindful about it, though. If my track record's any indication, I'll be lucky to catch the thing before it heads to the on-demand rental scene. And if it comes to that, I'll likely just wait to see it on it's second run at our local IMAX theater.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    I just saw it and it was intense. A LOT going on. I thought it was good but the Star Wars super geeks and super nerds aren't going to like it because some of their theories are foiled and the unexpected happens. Which made it fun for me.

    I've seen some people complain about the humor...I didn't think it was that bad either.

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    is this the one that follows the last one I remember seeing where Luke is at the top of that mountain by himself where his daughter finds him?

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    I just saw it and it was intense. A LOT going on. I thought it was good but the Star Wars super geeks and super nerds aren't going to like it because some of their theories are foiled and the unexpected happens. Which made it fun for me.

    I've seen some people complain about the humor...I didn't think it was that bad either.
    I am not a super nerd but it was just ok.

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    Senior Member BeardoMSU's Avatar
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    We just got back from seeing it.

    A few spoilers below.....











    Ok. I'm still processing the film. There are parts I loved, and others not so much. The central characters are all really good. I actually thought Leia's few lines in Force Awakens were pretty flat and not very well delivered, honestly. That's not the case in Last Jedi. She's great. I was expecting her to die in some way, and was honestly surprised she didn't...I assume she'll bite it early in IX.

    Luke is great too. Is it the Luke I wanted to see? No, not really, but I could appreciate how his character was taken.

    The whole sequence on the casino planet was pretty pointless. Del Toro's character was a total throw away.

    I felt the same about Laura Dern's character. She wasn't very good. Also, her whole "secret plan" for their escape was dumb as hell kept as a secret. Why not inform everyone on whats going on? That would have prevented the need for Finn and Rose to go to the casino planet....not to mention Poe's mutiny.

    I'm really disappointed Snoke bought it, and found it pretty surprising, tbh. It felt cheap. Such a powerful character, we literally know zero about, and now he's gone. No back story. No nothing. Like I said: cheap.

    Yoda. ****ing. Yoda. His scene was soooooo good. My eyes teared up seeing him. They used an actual puppet, and he was the real Yoda, not the lame and too serious facsimile we got in the prequels....it was the Yoda from Empire Strikes Back. Funny, irreverent, and lovable. It was awesome hearing Frank Oz's voice once again. Timeless.

    I'll probably come back and add more to this as I continue to process it. Overall, I thought it was a good Star Wars film. Good not great. It was beautifully shot, and acted really well (overall). The action sequences were great. However, outside of Yoda's scene, I didn't find myself as emotionally gripped as I was with Force Awakens.

    I'd probably give it a solid B, maybe a B+.
    Last edited by BeardoMSU; 12-17-2017 at 04:44 PM.

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    I watched it last night. I was actually disappointed in it. I initially was mad at how Luke went out but I am ok with it after thinking about it. It just seems like the entire plot could have been completed in about 30 minutes. Unless some of the things that seemed like wasted time end up paying off in the future.

    It had some cool action sequences like Poe in the Xbox wing at the beginning but not enough to make up for crap like milking the space cow. I get that it is supposed to show that Luke is basically living out solitary confinement but that is wasted time when not a lot happens in the rest of the movie.

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    I saw it Yesterday. Still unpacking. I feel like this was meant to be a movie that requires multiple viewings, which is ambitous, but being a Star Wars movie, completely in line with what the fan base will do.

    Spoiler space.


    I give it a B right now. I like it 4th or 5th in the series so far. But I think it will move up on repeat viewings.

    My main critique/ disappointment is something that is out of the franchise control. It's clear to me episode 9 was to be the Leia centric movie of the 3. (Han in 7, Luke in 8) Probably using her death as the hook for the turn/redemption of Kylo Ren. With Carrie Fisher's death, that is no longer possible. And knowing Leia is dead, makes the death of Luke harder to process, as all of the main cast ( sorry Chewie) from the first films are gone.

    That aside, I'm still working on how Luke's explanation of the Force resonates across the whole series. How it explains Vader (and the real way he Balanced the Force). How Rey and broom kid mirror Vader and Luke vs the Sith and Jedi. How the Universe will move forward. And maybe how a Knights of the Old Republic series will show how far the Jedi moved from the original intent...

    And that's the real point of Del Toro's character, and the casino planet. To show how the rest of the Galaxy "lives" while all this fighting goes on.

    As for Snoke, while I'd like to find out his backstory, he's a McGuffin. I love that scene. It's how I wish the Return of the Jedi scene had gone.

    I loved Yoda in the movie.

    Luke's arc was jarring, but I think filled out nicely. It could have moved faster, but I think that's the point. He's so afraid of the dark side, and becoming his father, he's retreated to save the universe from him.

    I hated the slow speed chase. I wish they had cut that to be a siege on the Red salt planet. Remove the super laser, and keep the rest of the plotlines. You could even keep Dern's sacrifice. However, I guess you lose Poe's character development from Hot head Pilot to leader on screen...

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    I saw it Yesterday. Still unpacking. I feel like this was meant to be a movie that requires multiple viewings, which is ambitous, but being a Star Wars movie, completely in line with what the fan base will do.

    Spoiler space.


    I give it a B right now. I like it 4th or 5th in the series so far. But I think it will move up on repeat viewings.

    My main critique/ disappointment is something that is out of the franchise control. It's clear to me episode 9 was to be the Leia centric movie of the 3. (Han in 7, Luke in 8) Probably using her death as the hook for the turn/redemption of Kylo Ren. With Carrie Fisher's death, that is no longer possible. And knowing Leia is dead, makes the death of Luke harder to process, as all of the main cast ( sorry Chewie) from the first films are gone.

    That aside, I'm still working on how Luke's explanation of the Force resonates across the whole series. How it explains Vader (and the real way he Balanced the Force). How Rey and broom kid mirror Vader and Luke vs the Sith and Jedi. How the Universe will move forward. And maybe how a Knights of the Old Republic series will show how far the Jedi moved from the original intent...

    And that's the real point of Del Toro's character, and the casino planet. To show how the rest of the Galaxy "lives" while all this fighting goes on.

    As for Snoke, while I'd like to find out his backstory, he's a McGuffin. I love that scene. It's how I wish the Return of the Jedi scene had gone.

    I loved Yoda in the movie.

    Luke's arc was jarring, but I think filled out nicely. It could have moved faster, but I think that's the point. He's so afraid of the dark side, and becoming his father, he's retreated to save the universe from him.

    I hated the slow speed chase. I wish they had cut that to be a siege on the Red salt planet. Remove the super laser, and keep the rest of the plotlines. You could even keep Dern's sacrifice. However, I guess you lose Poe's character development from Hot head Pilot to leader on screen...
    To me what I didn't like about it was it was slow in spots that didn't really need to be slow and then fast in spots that I wanted to last longer. I get that they used the casino planet to show who is really profiting from the ongoing war and they sell to both sides. It just seemed to drag on to me. I found myself getting bored and zoning out.

    Building Snoke up to be the big bad only to kill him with basically a sneak attack (which was probably the only way to kill him) and have no description of who or what he was. Kylo could have given her a brief synopsis in the elevator or something.

    Rey going into the Dark side hole only to just see her reflection stretched out when she was looking for her parents. Maybe I missed something but it made no sense to me. Yoda being able to call down lightning, so can force ghosts interact now? I understand just completely overlooking the midicholrian dumb plot point but basically saying Rey's parents were just nobodies, why did the Skywalker lightsaber speak to her? If it was just because she was force sensitive, why wouldn't someone else have found it in the 20 years it was in the basement. If little kid with a broom can already do things then why wouldn't one of the thousands of people that go through that bar have had the same reaction as Rey? Surely someone else would have been force sensitive in that amount of time.

    It just seems like Rian basically just took the notes that JJ had made for this sequel and threw them in the trash. The humor a lot of times felt forced and took away from the mood also. It seemed like they tried to make a Marvel movie with Star Wars characters.

    Also with Holdo's sacrifice, it was just plain dumb. You have all these idealist fighters that are willing to die for the cause, why would someone else not take control of the ship. Holdo is supposedly a badass tactician, would the resistance not benefit a lot more from her to continue on and let the janitor continue to pilot the ship?

    Along with Snoke, they also kill off Phasma I guess as a nod to the shitty way Boba Fhett was killed. Finn was a damn janitor, he wouldn't be able to stand toe to toe with one of the First Order's best fighters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    To me what I didn't like about it was it was slow in spots that didn't really need to be slow and then fast in spots that I wanted to last longer. I get that they used the casino planet to show who is really profiting from the ongoing war and they sell to both sides. It just seemed to drag on to me. I found myself getting bored and zoning out.

    Building Snoke up to be the big bad only to kill him with basically a sneak attack (which was probably the only way to kill him) and have no description of who or what he was. Kylo could have given her a brief synopsis in the elevator or something.

    Rey going into the Dark side hole only to just see her reflection stretched out when she was looking for her parents. Maybe I missed something but it made no sense to me. Yoda being able to call down lightning, so can force ghosts interact now? I understand just completely overlooking the midicholrian dumb plot point but basically saying Rey's parents were just nobodies, why did the Skywalker lightsaber speak to her? If it was just because she was force sensitive, why wouldn't someone else have found it in the 20 years it was in the basement. If little kid with a broom can already do things then why wouldn't one of the thousands of people that go through that bar have had the same reaction as Rey? Surely someone else would have been force sensitive in that amount of time.

    It just seems like Rian basically just took the notes that JJ had made for this sequel and threw them in the trash. The humor a lot of times felt forced and took away from the mood also. It seemed like they tried to make a Marvel movie with Star Wars characters.

    Also with Holdo's sacrifice, it was just plain dumb. You have all these idealist fighters that are willing to die for the cause, why would someone else not take control of the ship. Holdo is supposedly a badass tactician, would the resistance not benefit a lot more from her to continue on and let the janitor continue to pilot the ship?

    Along with Snoke, they also kill off Phasma I guess as a nod to the shitty way Boba Fhett was killed. Finn was a damn janitor, he wouldn't be able to stand toe to toe with one of the First Order's best fighters.
    Rey in the dark side hole is to show how she is not afraid of the dark side of the force, but she still rejects it. Unlike Luke who fears the dark side. Rey demonstrates the dark side has no power over her.

    The fact she is a nobody ( just like Vader was) shows the force is for everyone. She is "special" in that the force has balance. Ren is a super strong dark side character, the force made Rey a super strong light side character to balance. That's why Luke had to die. Snoke was killed, so to balance the force, Luke had to die. Or maybe the others were not listening. Or maybe it's just survivorship bias.

    I understand the casino plotline was a dead end, and some of the revelations could have come from dialog only, but I think the point was to introduce the stable kids so that the broom boy at the end was a less "random" force user.

    Why no one thought, on either side, that a Kamikaze attack was a god tactical move to allow the rebel ships to get away, or for that matter to shield them with the cruiser, I have no idea.

    They should have left Phasma dead from the last movie.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    Rey in the dark side hole is to show how she is not afraid of the dark side of the force, but she still rejects it. Unlike Luke who fears the dark side. Rey demonstrates the dark side has no power over her.

    The fact she is a nobody ( just like Vader was) shows the force is for everyone. She is "special" in that the force has balance. Ren is a super strong dark side character, the force made Rey a super strong light side character to balance. That's why Luke had to die. Snoke was killed, so to balance the force, Luke had to die. Or maybe the others were not listening. Or maybe it's just survivorship bias.

    I understand the casino plotline was a dead end, and some of the revelations could have come from dialog only, but I think the point was to introduce the stable kids so that the broom boy at the end was a less "random" force user.

    Why no one thought, on either side, that a Kamikaze attack was a god tactical move to allow the rebel ships to get away, or for that matter to shield them with the cruiser, I have no idea.

    They should have left Phasma dead from the last movie.
    I think what Rey and Broom kid are showing and what Luke was talking about is something along the lines of a basic tenet of Christianity - if you let go of yourself and invest in believing, then you become one with the grace of God. You don't have to be special. You don't have to be from a privileged bloodline. You just have to believe. Chirrut Imwe in Rogue One kind of embodied this idea too. What I see happening is that that Rey will inspire some sort of Force revolution where all you have to do is believe. It sounds kind of corny from a modern Hollywood perspective, but if you know anything about Campbell and the Hero's Journey, it would make a very interesting way to tie up the story arc of all 3 trilogies.

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    Rey in the dark side hole is to show how she is not afraid of the dark side of the force, but she still rejects it. Unlike Luke who fears the dark side. Rey demonstrates the dark side has no power over her.

    The fact she is a nobody ( just like Vader was) shows the force is for everyone. She is "special" in that the force has balance. Ren is a super strong dark side character, the force made Rey a super strong light side character to balance. That's why Luke had to die. Snoke was killed, so to balance the force, Luke had to die. Or maybe the others were not listening. Or maybe it's just survivorship bias.

    I understand the casino plotline was a dead end, and some of the revelations could have come from dialog only, but I think the point was to introduce the stable kids so that the broom boy at the end was a less "random" force user.

    Why no one thought, on either side, that a Kamikaze attack was a god tactical move to allow the rebel ships to get away, or for that matter to shield them with the cruiser, I have no idea.

    They should have left Phasma dead from the last movie.
    But how did she reject it? She went in there and didn't get the answers she was looking for. I think as much as anything that Luke might have talked more about the Grey Jedis. There are parts of the Light and Dark sides that can benefit humanity. By going to one extreme or the other is how you get corrupted. The Jedis basically became holier than thou and could actually harm people just from thinking they knew better than anyone else. Of course the Dark side is power that corrupts but power can also be used to save people, it just depends on how it is used.

    Phasma had a novel written about her being a super badass warrior and then gets beaten by a janitor. If they removed the entire Finn and Rose storyline then it probably makes the movie flow better and eliminates some dumb plot points.

    I think Luke was in a way punishing himself for Ben but also afraid of the dark side and being corrupted. He almost struck down Ben instead of trying to save him. It showed both point of views between Ben and Luke were kind of correct. Just like most things, the truth is usually in the middle. Luke finally admitted it and it allowed him to come to peace with it.

    Overall, I enjoyed the beginning with Poe flying out to face the empire alone while buying time. The humor there kind of lost me some. I thought it was kind of funny but just doesn't fit. I enjoyed the end and the more I think about Luke creating an astral projection across the galaxy and even creating the gold dice from Han is extremely impressive. The rebels charging the ATATs looked cool but they didn't even shoot one thing. Just like most of the movie, seemed to be all flash no substance.

    I might enjoy it more on a 2nd go around but I won't waste my money to see it in the theater again.

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    Saw it Friday. Thought it was good, not great.



    Spoiler time






    It was too cute at times. Luke brushing off his shoulder after the big attack at the end and Leia's "I changed my hair" line made me laugh at them, not with them.

    As someone posted earlier I too was expecting Leila to die/be killed at some point since she passed IRL and now I'm wondering how they will approach her in 9. Will they simply write her out?

    Also agree on the Jurassic Park lady's arc. They setup the whole "there's a mole" angle and make you believe it's her. Only for it not to be her and they never really revisit it. Unless of course I missed that part.

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbo View Post
    Saw it Friday. Thought it was good, not great.



    Spoiler time






    It was too cute at times. Luke brushing off his shoulder after the big attack at the end and Leia's "I changed my hair" line made me laugh at them, not with them.

    As someone posted earlier I too was expecting Leila to die/be killed at some point since she passed IRL and now I'm wondering how they will approach her in 9. Will they simply write her out?

    Also agree on the Jurassic Park lady's arc. They setup the whole "there's a mole" angle and make you believe it's her. Only for it not to be her and they never really revisit it. Unless of course I missed that part.
    I honestly probably went in with too high of expectations. All the humor just kind of distracted me more than make me appreciate it. I kind of laughed then thought the joke was dumb, almost what you would see on a blooper reel. I read that they had to basically rewrite the script for 9 because it was going to be Leia's primary movie. It was going to be Han as the primary in 7, Luke in 8, then Leia in 9. They now have had to scrap most of what they had outlined.

    I also don't understand why Holdor wouldn't have pulled Poe aside and said there is a plan, you just need to shut up because we might have a mole. She would have known it wasn't him. I don't really remember how the code breaker would have known their plan so he could betray them. He also said he only betrayed them after they were caught but it was obviously a trap when they got through the door. I kind of zoned out and don't remember that part. I guess my brain was trying to block it out so maybe I only remember the interesting parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    But how did she reject it? She went in there and didn't get the answers she was looking for. I think as much as anything that Luke might have talked more about the Grey Jedis. There are parts of the Light and Dark sides that can benefit humanity. By going to one extreme or the other is how you get corrupted. The Jedis basically became holier than thou and could actually harm people just from thinking they knew better than anyone else. Of course the Dark side is power that corrupts but power can also be used to save people, it just depends on how it is used.

    Phasma had a novel written about her being a super badass warrior and then gets beaten by a janitor. If they removed the entire Finn and Rose storyline then it probably makes the movie flow better and eliminates some dumb plot points.

    I think Luke was in a way punishing himself for Ben but also afraid of the dark side and being corrupted. He almost struck down Ben instead of trying to save him. It showed both point of views between Ben and Luke were kind of correct. Just like most things, the truth is usually in the middle. Luke finally admitted it and it allowed him to come to peace with it.

    Overall, I enjoyed the beginning with Poe flying out to face the empire alone while buying time. The humor there kind of lost me some. I thought it was kind of funny but just doesn't fit. I enjoyed the end and the more I think about Luke creating an astral projection across the galaxy and even creating the gold dice from Han is extremely impressive. The rebels charging the ATATs looked cool but they didn't even shoot one thing. Just like most of the movie, seemed to be all flash no substance.

    I might enjoy it more on a 2nd go around but I won't waste my money to see it in the theater again.
    The rejection was in the throne room with Ren. Contrast how Luke encounter Vader and freaked at his own severed head in the mask Vs Rey in the cave of the dark side. She was curious. And disappointed. Not afraid. Remember Yoda “ fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering”.

    I like Brunswick’s Christianity analogy. The jedi became the Middle Ages Catholic Church. Hiding was should be given freely.

    Phasma having a novel novel means she should have been killed in the first one.

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    The rejection was in the throne room with Ren. Contrast how Luke encounter Vader and freaked at his own severed head in the mask Vs Rey in the cave of the dark side. She was curious. And disappointed. Not afraid. Remember Yoda “ fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering”.

    I like Brunswick’s Christianity analogy. The jedi became the Middle Ages Catholic Church. Hiding was should be given freely.

    Phasma having a novel novel means she should have been killed in the first one.
    I think this is what may lead to the Grey Jedis or whatever you want to call the neutral force users. I still have to think on it but I am still disappointed overall in the movie. The movie just had too many throw away scenes. It just seems like everything set up in 7 was almost just thrown into a garbage can and said none of this is actually important. Luke even throws away the lightsaber that started him on this journey like it was just a normal piece of garbage. If nothing else, he should have looked at it as a piece of his father as a Jedi.

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