Pondering our current football status (Long, sorry)

[CadaverDawg]

I'm somewhat disappointed in myself for not being more excited about what could be an 8-4 type season in the SEC. I always told myself during the Croom years that if we could ever become a 6-7 win team consistently I'd never complain again. So let me preface the rest of my post by saying, I'm content with 7-9 win seasons as all MSU fans SHOULD be....but that doesn't mean I dont want us to always strive to be better and take another step.

So with that said, I feel like we've reached a point where we're going to beat the teams we are more talented than, and lose pretty much every game against a team with better talent or a defense that can stop our run. Again, that's still good enough to win 7-8 games most years....but what are we doing to try and improve on that so that complacency doesn't set in?

My first thought is, we're recruiting playmakers at WR. I think that is the absolute right call, bc the only way a team with less overall talent pulls the upset, is to have playmakers that can win you games via 50/50 balls and pure skill. I'm disappointed that our staff allowed us to become so bad at WR considering our QB talent the last 4-5 years...that was just a failure at recruiting. BUT, we are addressing it this year and we desperately need to make sure Heath, Guidry, & hopefully Jason sign the dotted line.

The second part of the next step imo, must come via a philosophy change by our head coach. We have been trying to run our Kentucky gameplan vs the Bama's (& this year AU & UGA's) of the world for 8 years and it hasn't worked. Why? Bc our entire passing success is determined on the ability to run. When we can't run, we can't pass. This is only going to become a bigger and bigger problem until we get the better WR's on campus, bc teams are just going to go all in on the run game.

So my question is, what are we (what is Dan) doing to try to adjust & give us a better shot at competing with a Bama this year for instance? Obviously, we aren't likely to win that game. But what is/has Dan been doing to try to give us a puncher's chance? That's where I'm frustrated. There are always going to be 3-4 teams minimum in this league that can stop our run, so if we are truly trying to compete for Championship's, how are we preparing ourselves to beat those 3-4 teams each year? Are we doing anything? Are we trying to revamp our passing playbook? Or are we just hoping that a better raw passer at QB + a few D1 caliber receivers, will equal a passing game capable of getting us to a new level? Because I don't think it's ONLY a talent issue. I feel like Dan lacks the confidence in coaching a passing game, so he gets ultra conservative and abandons all creativity against these A teams we're talking about. That isn't a talent thing, and I hope he's working on that. During the offseason there was an article where other coaches in the SEC anonymously critiqued their SEC counterparts....one coach said Dan was a good coach, but he wasn't hard to prepare for because you know what he's going to run, you just have to execute. That is concerning to me, and shows a lack of creativity and adjustments.

We are never going to recruit well enough to line up and out-talent the Bama's or this year's UGA's & even AU's of the world.....so are we just going to keep conceding those games, or at some point are we going to try something they aren't expecting. I know many of you have sat at home like me and been able to predict several play calls in a row in big games...if we can, Smart can & Saban can, and many others can.

So with everything I've said above being the case....do you ever see Dan becoming more creative or becoming less tight in those big games? Or do you think we just need to accept that most years with Dan we have a great shot at 7-9 wins, which is awesome, but that we won't even be competitive with the top 2-3 teams in the SEC? And if so, how does that make you feel? I feel like I'm there, and while I don't want to get rid of Mullen and lose the 7-9 wins per year, I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm not a little disappointed thinking that despite how great Mullen has done, we probably don't have a realistic shot at winning the West with Dan, but can count on every year being a great year in "MSU standards".

Ultimately, I'm just curious if anybody else is feeling the same way, and what you think about it? Am I missing some adjustments? Because I could be. Again, this thread isn't bashing Mullen, he's our best ever and I don't want to lose him. I'm just thinking maybe we reached that ceiling and it's time to just adjust my expectations and just enjoy our best years ever and the talent we're putting on the field compared to years' past. It's just a weird feeling, bc I'm very grateful as a long time Dawg that knows how bad it can be...makes me feel guilty to say I wish we could make a few adjustments that could give us a little more, because I definitely think we have one of the best coaches in the country. I'm just wondering if he'll ever have the talent needed for us to compete for the West with his system. But I'll gladly take this over years past if not. Maybe these last 8 years are the MSU mountain top.

Thoughts? Sorry for long post.

[Homedawg]

Honestly, the only way to beat bama from our perspective is, play damn near perfect, they turn it over and we take advantage(see ole miss) and/or we get lucky as hell(again see ole miss). They have sooooo much more talent than us from top to bottom it's going to take the Villanova Georgetown scenario to win. And in the past we've done "creative" stuff against them, reverse pass etc etc. it just hasn't worked. I know everyone complains dan is not creative yada yada, but fact is, creative or not, they are just superior. If that hurts ones feelings, so be it. But don't misunderstand, it doesn't mean I want to lay down and not try. Hell 1980 happened, it can again.

[CadaverDawg]

Honestly, the only way to beat bama from our perspective is, play damn near perfect, they turn it over and we take advantage(see ole miss) and/or we get lucky as hell(again see ole miss). They have sooooo much more talent than us from top to bottom it's going to take the Villanova Georgetown scenario to win. And in the past we've done "creative" stuff against them, reverse pass etc etc. it just hasn't worked. I know everyone complains dan is not creative yada yada, but fact is, creative or not, they are just superior. If that hurts ones feelings, so be it. But don't misunderstand, it doesn't mean I want to lay down and not try. Hell 1980 happened, it can again.

I agree with you, and I think that's what I'm saying....Id rather us lose by 60 trying whatever it takes to win, than to do the same stuff we always do, like QB draw on 3rd and 5 all night, in a 50-3 loss like always. I know we still probably won't win, but why not let it all hang out.

[starkvegasdawg]

While I?m happy winning 7-9 every year, I?m not content doing so if that makes any sense. Anyone that?s been a state fan for more then ten years will never take a consistent 7-9 win seasons for granted. What?s been infuriating, though, is that these past few seasons we?ve always just been one or two pieces away from really being elite. Here lately it?s been WR, kicker, and OL. Looks like we?ve addressed kicker and addressing WR and I read on another board that supposedly Hev had a come to Jesus meeting. I really hope that?s true. As for Mullen coaching scared in big games...maybe Megan needs to give him a nice hummer before they take the field to loosen him up.

[msbulldog]

While I?m happy winning 7-9 every year, I?m not content doing so if that makes any sense. Anyone that?s been a state fan for more then ten years will never take a consistent 7-9 win seasons for granted. What?s been infuriating, though, is that these past few seasons we?ve always just been one or two pieces away from really being elite. Here lately it?s been WR, kicker, and OL. Looks like we?ve addressed kicker and addressing WR and I read on another board that supposedly Hev had a come to Jesus meeting. I really hope that?s true. As for Mullen coaching scared in big games...maybe Megan needs to give him a nice hummer before they take the field to loosen him up.

A good ole hummer always works for me, I don't know if I do my job any better, but I damn sure feel better.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Mullen is a 6-8 win per year coach....he made himself rich being good enough to beat the teams he should beat...I don't think he has the 12 -15 hour per day grind that Saban does , nor will he.

[tcdog70]

It's not just MSU, very few teams beat the BamaS and Georgias . Who can you stick in the SEC west and think they will have a good chance to win it.. maybe, Ohio St --who else? Not frigging many.we are unluckily this year to play the best team in the East. Guess what they will whip everyone's ass but maybe Bama.

[CadaverDawg]

It's not just MSU, very few teams beat the BamaS and Georgias . Who can you stick in the SEC west and think they will have a good chance to win it.. maybe, Ohio St --who else? Not frigging many.we are unluckily this year to play the best team in the East. Guess what they will whip everyone's ass but maybe Bama.

I see this in response quite a bit, and I'm fully aware that we probably won't beat them....I'm not expecting us too....I'm just expecting us to try to. And lining up trying to read option Alabama to a victory is as good a chance as kneeling it every down on offense. Let's shake it up and see what happens....if we lose by 50, oh well, we're used to it

[IMissJack]

I see this in response quite a bit, and I'm fully aware that we probably won't beat them....I'm not expecting us too....I'm just expecting us to try to. And lining up trying to read option Alabama to a victory is as good a chance as kneeling it every down on offense. Let's shake it up and see what happens....if we lose by 50, oh well, we're used to it

First I would settle with being competitive in a game with them, as in losing by 10. We are not near that.

[Coursesuper]

I think there is one factor that you aren't seeing when it comes to receiver recruiting, just how many have been purchased out from under us. I'll give you a hint it's more than one. This has also been a factor against us in other positions but most notably at receiver and OL. It is my sincere hope that shatstorm that is about to overcome UNM helps us here.

[CadaverDawg]

I think there is one factor that you aren't seeing when it comes to receiver recruiting, just how many have been purchased out from under us. I'll give you a hint it's more than one. This has also been a factor against us in other positions but most notably at receiver and OL. It is my sincere hope that shatstorm that is about to overcome UNM helps us here.

Good point, I agree.

And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

Just thought I'd share that for those interested. I will say this though, he has been extremely high on Mullen's recruiting. Says he and his staff have put in more work and been more effective than every team outside of the one he's committed to. So that's good news

[HoopsDawg]

Good point, I agree.

And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

Pass the message on to Dan. If that's true, that needs to change. Horrible approach and attitude in year 9 or whatever year we are in under Mullen. Of course every year Mullen says we are young so that doesn't surprise me.

[thf24]

Good point, I agree.

And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

Just thought I'd share that for those interested. I will say this though, he has been extremely high on Mullen's recruiting. Says he and his staff have put in more work and been more effective than every team outside of the one he's committed to. So that's good news

Many things I've heard along these lines about Mullen suggest to me that he's unwilling to make any recruiting promises that he isn't near certain he can keep. There's a lot to be said for that; much better than the other end of the spectrum of coaches like Butch Jones who tell every recruit who comes through their door whatever they want to hear, and end up with numerous incidents of mid-season attrition because you've made it impossible for yourself to keep everyone happy. However, I think Mullen is going to have to learn to embellish at least a little and paint a more optimistic picture if we're going to make the next step to the consistent top 20-15 class range where we need to be in order to compete for the division more than once in a blue moon.

[Coach34]

Good point, I agree.

And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

Just thought I'd share that for those interested. I will say this though, he has been extremely high on Mullen's recruiting. Says he and his staff have put in more work and been more effective than every team outside of the one he's committed to. So that's good news

This is 100% it alot of times. We sell the "lunchpail mentality" to recruits. That doesnt fly with WR talent that are typical divas and crave attention.

[ShotgunDawg]

This is 100% it alot of times. We sell the "lunchpail mentality" to recruits. That doesnt fly with WR talent that are typical divas and crave attention.

Agree with you, but Cadaver's story sounds shallow to me.

Surely no one is making one of the most important decisions of their life due to that. I mean, I'd have serious questions about the parents if so. I'm sure they are good folks & all but....

[MarketingBully]

Good point, I agree.

And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

Just thought I'd share that for those interested. I will say this though, he has been extremely high on Mullen's recruiting. Says he and his staff have put in more work and been more effective than every team outside of the one he's committed to. So that's good news

That?s why he is a shit recruiter. Do you think Cannizzaro or Howland sell us like this? Both of those guys sell championships and MLB/NBA. Dan?s just not a good recruiter and that could be the cause of some of our problems.

[ShotgunDawg]

Good point, I agree.

And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

Just thought I'd share that for those interested. I will say this though, he has been extremely high on Mullen's recruiting. Says he and his staff have put in more work and been more effective than every team outside of the one he's committed to. So that's good news

Look, I trust what you saying is true, but I personally think your friend is being a little ridiculous.

Anyone saying they are going to win championship right now is just lying. Only one team is winning the SEC title for the foreseeable future

[CadaverDawg]

Look, I trust what you saying is true, but I personally think your friend is being a little ridiculous.

Anyone saying they are going to win championship right now is just lying. Only one team is winning the SEC title for the foreseeable future

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you or I think....they're the one being recruited, and this kid's dad is letting him make his own decision. The kid says he loves MSU, but wants to compete for a Championship. The school he is committed to isn't any closer to winning one today than we are, but they have made him believe he can. Which is why he's willing to go there and be a backup for a few years, when he could start as a freshman for us. It is what it is. Believe what you want, but if you think a 17 year old thinks the same as a couple of older message board fans, that's on you.

Bottom line, the guy actually gave lots of props to Mullen and the position coach recruiting him....but ultimately said his son doesn't feel he can compete for a championship at MSU while he feels he can at the other school. And he said he doesn't think Mullen thinks he can either, because he's never even said it. Shallow or not, that's the truth....and trust me, I've thrown my greatest sales pitches possible at his Dad, ha.

[MarketingBully]

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you or I think....they're the one being recruited, and this kid's dad is letting him make his own decision. The kid says he loves MSU, but wants to compete for a Championship. The school he is committed to isn't any closer to winning one today than we are, but they have made him believe he can. Which is why he's willing to go there and be a backup for a few years, when he could start as a freshman for us. It is what it is. Believe what you want, but if you think a 17 year old thinks the same as a couple of older message board fans, that's on you.

Bottom line, the guy actually gave lots of props to Mullen and the position coach recruiting him....but ultimately said his son doesn't feel he can compete for a championship at MSU while he feels he can at the other school. And he said he doesn't think Mullen thinks he can either, because he's never even said it. Shallow or not, that's the truth....and trust me, I've thrown my greatest sales pitches possible at his Dad, ha.

You’re absolutely right. As much as Ole Miss cheated to get recruits, Hugh Freeze was a much more charismatic guy than Mullen is. Do you think Freeze recruited with the what you see is what you get mentality? No. He gave them the same bullshit everyone else does. We are also talking about a man who almost lost Tim Tebow to Mike Shula because he made such a bad first impression with his dad and Tim initially. Meyer had to clean up Mullen’s mess. Mullen is however a great football coach and a great offensive mind but he needs to surround himself with excellent recruiters to make up for his difficiencies. He needs to get rid of Hev and bring in a great recruiter in his stead. Surround himself with coaches who recruit at an extremely high level. Otherwise some of those advantages everyone thinks we should have with Ole Miss being on probation may end up going to LSU and Alabama.

[BrunswickDawg]

Very good post Cadaver. It is definitely a conundrum feeing like we have achieved a level we all dreamed about and yet feeling that we have plateaued.

As an eternal optimist and sunshine pumper - I?ll try to give you some hope.

1) Dan is still a young coach. He has made many adjustments in his time here and seems willing to learn and grow (regardless of the Hev/Country Club criticism).
2) some of the needed offensive adjustments are already being addressed. Think about this - Key is our first big time QB recruit. Assuming he can attack learning the system, he has the potential to shatter every record we have. By adding big time QB?s - you are seeing better receivers committing - they know they will get the damn ball. No offense to Dak or Fitz - but neither of them were going to draw big time WR to come with them as recruits. Guys like Key, Maden, etc will.
3) We are using our resources wisely. We have money, and Cohen knows we need to spend on assistants to make us better. We saw it on D last year. I think we will see it more this off season.
4) To make the next big step, I really think we need Dan to bring in or promote someone to OC and let them take the reigns. Dan can focus on big picture and QBs.

We really aren?t that far off. But, the other big thing is someone needs to make Saban hang it up. He is strangling the SEC bit by bit.