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Thread: Pondering our current football status (Long, sorry)

  1. #61
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Careful DAWG61 - you are starting to sound like me. Lol

    The biggest problem with MSU is we’ve never given what few very good coaches we have had time to build a program.
    Sasse burned out. McKeen banged the wrong girl. Warmath and Royal realized what they were up against and bugged out. Tyler pissed on the NCAA. Bellard seemed to give up. Jackie was a marked man. We never had that 25 year guy who built us into something and got his name on the stadium. The way I see it, Dan may be our last hope for that ever happening because of the way the game is run these days. To me that makes it imperative that we as fans and supporters do everything we can to keep moving us forward. We don’t need to go all Yancy and his lost sheep with it - but we do need to do a better job of pulling in the same direction and pushing toward the goal of getting us to the next level.
    Bravo, Sir!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Careful DAWG61 - you are starting to sound like me. Lol

    The biggest problem with MSU is we?ve never given what few very good coaches we have had time to build a program.
    Sasse burned out. McKeen banged the wrong girl. Warmath and Royal realized what they were up against and bugged out. Tyler pissed on the NCAA. Bellard seemed to give up. Jackie was a marked man. We never had that 25 year guy who built us into something and got his name on the stadium. The way I see it, Dan may be our last hope for that ever happening because of the way the game is run these days. To me that makes it imperative that we as fans and supporters do everything we can to keep moving us forward. We don?t need to go all Yancy and his lost sheep with it - but we do need to do a better job of pulling in the same direction and pushing toward the goal of getting us to the next level.
    I may have missed it, but I don't see anyone calling for Dan to be fired.

  3. #63
    Senior Member IMissJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    I see this in response quite a bit, and I'm fully aware that we probably won't beat them....I'm not expecting us too....I'm just expecting us to try to. And lining up trying to read option Alabama to a victory is as good a chance as kneeling it every down on offense. Let's shake it up and see what happens....if we lose by 50, oh well, we're used to it
    First I would settle with being competitive in a game with them, as in losing by 10. We are not near that.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    I think most of us agree, though we may see things a little differently. Although we have come a long way and are doing better than we ever have, we want more. We want to take that next step to become a national brand(which doesn?t always mean you win an NC, though that would be nice. It requires constant success, bowls every year, 8,9,10 win seasons to become one of those teams that everyone knows. We have taken giant steps from years of mediocrity but have more to do. I feel confident Dan is building to that and he seems to be evoloving. We are recruiting much better(especially now that the bears arent buying players out from under us), and are addressing needs. We arent there obviously but closer than we have ever been and its gonna take even more effort from all involved to get where we all want to be.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    I think most of us agree, though we may see things a little differently. Although we have come a long way and are doing better than we ever have, we want more. We want to take that next step to become a national brand(which doesn?t always mean you win an NC, though that would be nice. It requires constant success, bowls every year, 8,9,10 win seasons to become one of those teams that everyone knows. We have taken giant steps from years of mediocrity but have more to do. I feel confident Dan is building to that and he seems to be evoloving. We are recruiting much better(especially now that the bears arent buying players out from under us), and are addressing needs. We arent there obviously but closer than we have ever been and its gonna take even more effort from all involved to get where we all want to be.
    Yep, we look strong at QB for at least the next 3 years. These 2018 and 2019 signing classes are critical. Got to take advantage of the Ole Miss troubles and see what we can do. Hopefully we can hold onto Grantham for a couple of years too.

  6. #66
    Senior Member IMissJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Careful DAWG61 - you are starting to sound like me. Lol

    The biggest problem with MSU is we?ve never given what few very good coaches we have had time to build a program.
    Sasse burned out. McKeen banged the wrong girl. Warmath and Royal realized what they were up against and bugged out. Tyler pissed on the NCAA. Bellard seemed to give up. Jackie was a marked man. We never had that 25 year guy who built us into something and got his name on the stadium. The way I see it, Dan may be our last hope for that ever happening because of the way the game is run these days. To me that makes it imperative that we as fans and supporters do everything we can to keep moving us forward. We don?t need to go all Yancy and his lost sheep with it - but we do need to do a better job of pulling in the same direction and pushing toward the goal of getting us to the next level.
    Dan Mullen is the only coach in my lifetime that can get us QB's (consistently) that are actually wanted by other teams. As long as he can get above average QB's for his system, we will be in much better shape as a team than any time in my lifetime. Jackie had some really good D's, but QB held him back. I'm hopeful that we can keep Grantham get a couple of shut down corners, a couple of receivers and take off.

  7. #67
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsDawg View Post
    I may have missed it, but I don't see anyone calling for Dan to be fired.
    That’s not at all what I’m implying. I’m saying we need to do whatever we can to make sure that the program continues to get what it needs to grow and move forward. It seems every time in our history when it has gotten to hard to make the next step, we haven’t. A lot of times it was because we started infighting about the coach. We asked the wrong questions and got the wrong results.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    That’s not at all what I’m implying. I’m saying we need to do whatever we can to make sure that the program continues to get what it needs to grow and move forward. It seems every time in our history when it has gotten to hard to make the next step, we haven’t. A lot of times it was because we started infighting about the coach. We asked the wrong questions and got the wrong results.
    I think everyone agrees with that. Kind of the point of the whole thread was what can we do to take the next step.

  9. #69
    Senior Member IMissJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    That’s not at all what I’m implying. I’m saying we need to do whatever we can to make sure that the program continues to get what it needs to grow and move forward. It seems every time in our history when it has gotten to hard to make the next step, we haven’t. A lot of times it was because we started infighting about the coach. We asked the wrong questions and got the wrong results.
    Agree with this, and if UM gets hammered and not the UNC treatment, it should make taking that step easier this time.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsDawg View Post
    Yep, we look strong at QB for at least the next 3 years. These 2018 and 2019 signing classes are critical. Got to take advantage of the Ole Miss troubles and see what we can do. Hopefully we can hold onto Grantham for a couple of years too.
    Agree. Have to capitalize on these next few classes and lock Grantham up too.

    ETA I should have said capitalize on EVERY class.
    Last edited by Commercecomet24; 10-15-2017 at 10:22 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Good point, I agree.

    And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

    Just thought I'd share that for those interested. I will say this though, he has been extremely high on Mullen's recruiting. Says he and his staff have put in more work and been more effective than every team outside of the one he's committed to. So that's good news
    That?s why he is a shit recruiter. Do you think Cannizzaro or Howland sell us like this? Both of those guys sell championships and MLB/NBA. Dan?s just not a good recruiter and that could be the cause of some of our problems.

  12. #72
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    That’s not at all what I’m implying. I’m saying we need to do whatever we can to make sure that the program continues to get what it needs to grow and move forward. It seems every time in our history when it has gotten to hard to make the next step, we haven’t. A lot of times it was because we started infighting about the coach. We asked the wrong questions and got the wrong results.
    Shira- stepped down to become AD. We didn't fire him even though he was bad. And even named a building after him. A guy that didn't win a SEC game for something like three years in a row.
    Tyler- NCAA fired him.
    Bellard- Retread essentially. Fired after four straight losing seasons and losing three Egg Bowls in a row. It was time.
    Felker- Had one winning season in five years which was his first year and was allowed to stay two more years after Tech and 10. And then we hired him BACK as an assistant.
    Sherrill- Left after three consecutive losing seasons and NCAA issues.
    Croom- Had one winning season in five years. We fired him one year removed from his best season.
    Dan- Current

    It seems to me recently if we ever had a problem with football coaches it was holding on to them way too long. All of our coaches going back to the 50's got at least 5 years. I think the problem is as I think you are saying we didn't support them the right way. If we gave Jackie the same facilities and money to hire assistants relative to the 1990's as what we are with Dan right now- who knows what happens? I think the issue was more from the athletic department level until 2007 than anything. If you don't have support from them, you aren't going to hire a good coach unless there is some alum that is a MSU grad that is a coaching guru. And that's going to lead to not winning which leads to lack of fan support.

  13. #73
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Shira- stepped down to become AD. We didn't fire him even though he was bad. And even named a building after him. A guy that didn't win a SEC game for something like three years in a row.
    Tyler- NCAA fired him.
    Bellard- Retread essentially. Fired after four straight losing seasons and losing three Egg Bowls in a row. It was time.
    Felker- Had one winning season in five years which was his first year and was allowed to stay two more years after Tech and 10. And then we hired him BACK as an assistant.
    Sherrill- Left after three consecutive losing seasons and NCAA issues.
    Croom- Had one winning season in five years. We fired him one year removed from his best season.
    Dan- Current

    It seems to me recently if we ever had a problem with football coaches it was holding on to them way too long. All of our coaches going back to the 50's got at least 5 years. I think the problem is as I think you are saying we didn't support them the right way. If we gave Jackie the same facilities and money to hire assistants relative to the 1990's as what we are with Dan right now- who knows what happens? I think the issue was more from the athletic department level until 2007 than anything. If you don't have support from them, you aren't going to hire a good coach unless there is some alum that is a MSU grad that is a coaching guru. And that's going to lead to not winning which leads to lack of fan support.
    Good points. I think a big difference now compared to any other point in our history is our athletic department as a whole - and specifically our AD. Cohen just seems to be a perfect fit for where we are right now. He’s a pro, he’s an accomplished coach, he understands the financial side, and he’s an MSU guy. I think he will be asking Dan the right questions and keep pushing him productively.

  14. #74
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Good points. I think a big difference now compared to any other point in our history is our athletic department as a whole - and specifically our AD. Cohen just seems to be a perfect fit for where we are right now. He’s a pro, he’s an accomplished coach, he understands the financial side, and he’s an MSU guy. I think he will be asking Dan the right questions and keep pushing him productively.
    Good points by you and Todd. We now have an athletic dept and AD who want to win and are serious about it.

  15. #75
    Senior Member IMissJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Good points. I think a big difference now compared to any other point in our history is our athletic department as a whole - and specifically our AD. Cohen just seems to be a perfect fit for where we are right now. He’s a pro, he’s an accomplished coach, he understands the financial side, and he’s an MSU guy. I think he will be asking Dan the right questions and keep pushing him productively.
    The only questions I have about Cohen long term, is whether he will be as progressive with the marketing type ideas as Byrne and Stricklin.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMissJack View Post
    The only questions I have about Cohen long term, is whether he will be as progressive with the marketing type ideas as Byrne and Stricklin.
    I think marketing is important. But winning is the best form of marketing a team could have. Stricklin was great at it and I think he's a big reason why we have the cowbell use and tradition- I saw some BYU fans in front of me with their cowbells and enjoying the tradition of it, and I think that's because of Stricklin's work on that front. At the same time I think the AD we have now is better for us as far as where we are as an athletic department in terms of moving the program forward in terms of winning. I don't think Scott could talk to Dan on the same level as Cohen can because of Cohen's coaching background. And I think it goes both ways because I think Dan can go to Cohen with something and Cohen can understand why he wants something a little more than maybe Scott could.

    It seems like things have changed a lot with Dan ever since Cohen became AD in a good way. It's like it gave him a shot in the arm.

  17. #77
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Good point, I agree.

    And on the recruiting note, let me tell you guys a story.....I work with the Dad of a big time 4 star recruit in an upcoming class. His son is committed to an SEC school despite saying he loves MSU & our coaches. When I asked him why he wouldn't choose MSU, he said it's because every time Dan & the coaches talk to his son or his 4-5 star buddies, he talks about "building" and "being better" but never talks about "trying to win a Championship". I know that sounds silly, but he said that's why we will not be signing his son or his son's good friend that is also a 4 star. They want to win a 'ship, or at least play for a team who plans on winning one...and despite their praise of Mullen and our atmosphere, they don't think Mullen sells us as a Championship contender, but more of a constant rebuild. And the guy told me, " I know Dan's just being real, but sometimes these kids need to hear that you're confident you can coach them in to winning it all, not just "building" on a mediocre to above average program".

    Just thought I'd share that for those interested. I will say this though, he has been extremely high on Mullen's recruiting. Says he and his staff have put in more work and been more effective than every team outside of the one he's committed to. So that's good news
    Look, I trust what you saying is true, but I personally think your friend is being a little ridiculous.

    Anyone saying they are going to win championship right now is just lying. Only one team is winning the SEC title for the foreseeable future

  18. #78
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    This is 100% it alot of times. We sell the "lunchpail mentality" to recruits. That doesnt fly with WR talent that are typical divas and crave attention.
    Agree with you, but Cadaver's story sounds shallow to me.

    Surely no one is making one of the most important decisions of their life due to that. I mean, I'd have serious questions about the parents if so. I'm sure they are good folks & all but....

  19. #79
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    Some folks are letting the Saban effect get them.

  20. #80
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Look, I trust what you saying is true, but I personally think your friend is being a little ridiculous.

    Anyone saying they are going to win championship right now is just lying. Only one team is winning the SEC title for the foreseeable future
    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you or I think....they're the one being recruited, and this kid's dad is letting him make his own decision. The kid says he loves MSU, but wants to compete for a Championship. The school he is committed to isn't any closer to winning one today than we are, but they have made him believe he can. Which is why he's willing to go there and be a backup for a few years, when he could start as a freshman for us. It is what it is. Believe what you want, but if you think a 17 year old thinks the same as a couple of older message board fans, that's on you.

    Bottom line, the guy actually gave lots of props to Mullen and the position coach recruiting him....but ultimately said his son doesn't feel he can compete for a championship at MSU while he feels he can at the other school. And he said he doesn't think Mullen thinks he can either, because he's never even said it. Shallow or not, that's the truth....and trust me, I've thrown my greatest sales pitches possible at his Dad, ha.

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