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Thread: If You Were A Top QB Prospect, Would You Consider Bama?

  1. #21
    Senior Member BB30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    While watching Bama vs Texas A&M the other night, it kept dawning on me Bama's entire offensive philosophy & overall talent level, goes against what allows QBs to develop for the NFL.

    I personally think Jalen Hurts is talented player that is currently in a terrible situation for his overall development towards becoming an NFL QB & likely will never start a game in the NFL due to this lack of development. I will also expand these thoughts to Tongivljalsdasdfasdf because I don't like the way the ball comes out of his hand.

    The NFL is an 8-8 league in which QBs are tasked with raising the overall level of their teams play against other teams who have a similar talent as their own. How would any Alabama QB know how to do this?
    How could any Bama QB, who plays in an offense & for a coach that believes that, since his talent level is so far superior to anyone else's, the QBs job is to look for his first read &, if that isn't there, run.

    It's not that Bama has a bad QB coach, it's that their path of least resistance to winning games, is detrimental to QB development. I can't blame Bama coaches for that, as their job is to win Nattys, not to develop NFL QBs, but the point remains, if you were a top QB recruit with the goal of being an NFL starter, why would you go there?

    Sure, you'll get a hot girlfriend, plenty of publicity, SEC Championships, & probably a Natty, but is that the goal? or is the goal to develop into an NFL QB?

    I have read some articles where a number of NFL scouts say that one of the most important parts of QB development at the college level is responsibility. How much responsibility did that player have in running his offense, making reads, putting the team on his back. This is where they say they missed on Dak. They didn't realize how much responsibility he had at MSU.

    If you look at most of the top NFL QBs, they were at mid-tier schools & raised the level of that school's play. They had decent talent around them but were tasked with finding a way for their decent talent to elevate & beat superior teams.

    Dak - MSU
    Rivers - NC State
    Wilson - NC State/ Wisky
    Eli - Ole Miss
    Rodgers - Cal
    Watson - Clemson (Watson elevated Clemson. They weren't a top recruiter)
    Alex Smith - Utah
    Newton - Aubur. That Auburn team had average talent.
    Flacco - Delaware
    Goff - Cal
    Trubisky - UNC
    Hoyer - Michigan State
    Cousins - Michigan State
    Dalton - TCU
    Bortles - UCF
    Brissett - NC State
    Taylor - VT
    Cutler - Vandy
    Brees - Purdue
    Roethliberger - Miami of Ohio
    Ryan - BC
    Carr - Fresno State

    You also have some blue bloods, but most of the blue blood QBs were overwhelming talents - Stafford, Brady, Palmer, etc.


    I think part of the reason you see so many QBs from less elite schools is simply due to the fact that there is so much development that happens from the time a kid is a Sr in Highschool to a Jr/Sr in college. QB is one of the hardest positions to evaluate so your highly ranked kids going to USC, Ohio State, Bama, Etc. aren't necessarily going to be the cream of the crop in 3-4 years when other kids grow and develop.

    Honestly, the biggest difference in 5* IMO is they are ready to play immediately most of the time. That also means they could be closer to their ceiling than the 2-3* QB from It, Mississippi. The odds of being an NFL QB are already extremely extremely unlikely no matter who you play for and I think you could take the majority of the guys you listed and put them on another college team and they have a better than 75% chance of still ending up in the NFL thats including Alabama.

  2. #22
    Paysite Policeman Dawg-gone-dawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltydog View Post
    material, imo.
    If Hurts was on any other team he would be average at best.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg-gone-dawgs View Post
    If Hurts was on any other team he would be average at best.
    If Mullen had Hurts he'd look better than Fitz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew View Post
    If Mullen had Hurts he'd look better than Fitz.
    throwing...definitely.
    Running... not a chance.

    IMO of course but arguing hypotheticals is pointless I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg-gone-dawgs View Post
    throwing...definitely.
    Running... not a chance.

    IMO of course but arguing hypotheticals is pointless I guess.
    True but I think Hurts could be a 1000yd rusher here. He's faster than Fitz.

  6. #26
    Senior Member AROB44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB30 View Post
    I think part of the reason you see so many QBs from less elite schools is simply due to the fact that there is so much development that happens from the time a kid is a Sr in Highschool to a Jr/Sr in college. QB is one of the hardest positions to evaluate so your highly ranked kids going to USC, Ohio State, Bama, Etc. aren't necessarily going to be the cream of the crop in 3-4 years when other kids grow and develop.

    Honestly, the biggest difference in 5* IMO is they are ready to play immediately most of the time. That also means they could be closer to their ceiling than the 2-3* QB from It, Mississippi. The odds of being an NFL QB are already extremely extremely unlikely no matter who you play for and I think you could take the majority of the guys you listed and put them on another college team and they have a better than 75% chance of still ending up in the NFL thats including Alabama.
    I agree with you on this. But, I think it is true for every position, not just QB.
    "I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here." -- Arthur C. Clarke

  7. #27
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew View Post
    If Mullen had Hurts he'd look better than Fitz.
    Agree. This is my point.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Jack Lambert's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go to Bama no matter what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasu Dackds View Post
    You have this backwards. Alabama's offense is actually tailor made for what actually works, percentage wise, in the NFL. The pro-style offensive system will always be the method of choice up there, and with that, you have to 1 - have the arm to make the throws, and 2 - possess great decision making. Everything else is simply gravy.

    Alabama's problem has been quarterback evaluation. I don't think Hurts is an NFL quarterback, but he's a good college quarterback, in a great situation. Having talent around you is never a bad thing. I see several things in your post above that are just wrong. Clemson wasn't a top recruiter? WTF? Auburn had average talent around Cam? WTF? Did you see their offensive line?

    Isn't McCarron in the NFL?
    I agree with this, playing under a former pro coach (Daboll) with a multiple, pro style approach that can teach you to have full field reads and have play calls that use verbiage and aren't just pictures of a cartoon character are still going to be good ways to impress NFL scouts.

    That's the reason why Jimbo Fisher gets every QB he touches drafted, because he runs a multiple, pro style approach where the QB makes a lot of decisions instead of the "check with me" audible approach where the QB looks to the sideline to get the check and then just has 1 defender to read and 1 to 2 options.

    The NFL is gravitating more toward a college offense though (Chiefs have a lot of RPO concepts), but you're always going to have the stubborn NFL guys that think their way is the only way.

    I just think, like this poster said, that Bama has had bad evals. Hurts and Sims aren't NFL material, neither was Jake Coker. Greg McElroy had a cup of coffee in the NFL but wasn't physically talented enough. Blake Barnett, David Cornwell, and Cooper Bateman were highly rated by recruiting services, but were all obviously overrated since none of the 3 are starting at the schools they've now transferred to.
    McCarron is a borderline NFL starter and showed you what an NFL QB can do at Bama.

    I think with Hurts they wanted to go more RPO and use their QB as a runner since they had been having such a hard time defending it. Problem is he's just not near the natural passer that dual threats like Cam, Deshaun Watson, and Dak are. Hurts is pretty below average as a natural passer, although I think Taguilova will be good

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew View Post
    True but I think Hurts could be a 1000yd rusher here. He's faster than Fitz.
    Yup, Hurts is faster, stronger, more mobile and currently is throwing better...

    he was just shy of 1000 yards rushing as a Frosh...
    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  11. #31
    Senior Member Jack Lambert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUSK View Post
    Yup, Hurts is faster, stronger, more mobile and currently is throwing better...

    he was just shy of 1000 yards rushing as a Frosh...
    The question I have is why with all those 4 star lineman is he having to run so much?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lambert View Post
    The question I have is why with all those 4 star lineman is he having to run so much?
    He still tucks & runs prematurely and I think he relies on his legs a bit too much, at times...

    Also, the Pass Pro is not nearly where it needs to be... Run Blocking looks pretty good, though...
    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  13. #33
    Senior Member Gutter Cobreh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUSK View Post
    He still tucks & runs prematurely and I think he relies on his legs a bit too much, at times...

    Also, the Pass Pro is not nearly where it needs to be... Run Blocking looks pretty good, though...
    He's better without Kiffen this year. I realize he's matured over the past year, but he seems to fit with Daboll better.

    I like Tua better than Hurts. I think he throws a better ball.

    This whole thread is pointless anyway, since Shotgun posted an opinion with his mind already made up. Anyone that wouldn't want to play or send their kid to play at Bama under Saban is retarded. You want to play in big games and there is no other place to almost guarantee that than at Bama.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh View Post
    He's better without Kiffen this year. I realize he's matured over the past year, but he seems to fit with Daboll better.

    I like Tua better than Hurts. I think he throws a better ball.

    This whole thread is pointless anyway, since Shotgun posted an opinion with his mind already made up. Anyone that wouldn't want to play or send their kid to play at Bama under Saban is retarded. You want to play in big games and there is no other place to almost guarantee that than at Bama.
    tUA! tUA! tUA!
    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  15. #35
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    I think I could go either way with this. I guess it depends on how good I was too. If I was a true five star recruit I would probably be developed either place and if worse came to worse and I wasn't satisfied with my QB coaching at Bama I could also get a private instructor.

    MSU is kind of a sleeper program for a QB in terms of putting up numbers and wins IMO. What I'm saying is we're about to get a lot better at WR for the next few years and possibly o-line as well. I kind of feel bad for Nick having to operate with Holloway up the middle last year and then the smurf WR's this year plus Hevesy's o-line in big games is a health risk.

    If I'm a true four star guy it would probably make more sense to go to MSU unless I was just a huge Bama fan. All things being equal Dan would be better.

    If I'm a three star guy MSU would probably be the only choice I would have- but Dan has raised our profile enough that it looks like 4 star QB's are now our baseline so I would probably have to go somewhere else other than MSU or Bama because I probably wouldn't have an offer from either one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh View Post
    Anyone that wouldn't want to play or send their kid to play at Bama under Saban is retarded.
    Jameis Winston grew up a Bama fan in Mobile. He wanted to go there. But all Jimbo Fisher had to do to get him to go to FSU was to tell him to look at the history of NOT putting guys in the NFL. You don't get better by handing the ball off every play in the 4th quarter up by 35 points. I'd say it was NOT a "retarded" move. I'd say he's actually pretty smart because he is a starter in the NFL, and the best QB Saban has ever put in the NFL is a career benchwarmer. Winston developed at FSU.

    I'd say if you were a legit NFL potential talent, you'd be wasting your shot at being the NFL by going to Bama. But hey, I'm just going by the numbers. Saban is 0-fer when it comes to his QBs becoming starters in the NFL. Compare Mullen's track record, who has put Josh Harris, 14 year vet and #1 pick Alex Smith (who by the way was the current pro bowl starter), Heisman Trophy Winner and NFL starter Tim Tebow, and some guy named Dak who went on to have arguably the greatest rookie year for a QB in NFL history and currently has more endorsement deals than any other player in the NFL. He also started in the pro bowl. Saban has, well, his lone QB currently in the league has his own restaurant. No major endorsement deals, but nobody really wants that anyway, right? What people really dream of is owning their own restaurant. If that's your dream, Saban is right up your alley!
    Last edited by MSUDAWGFAN; 10-10-2017 at 08:10 AM.

  17. #37
    TheDynastyIsDead TUSK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSUDAWGFAN View Post
    Jameis Winston grew up a Bama fan in Mobile. He wanted to go there. But all Jimbo Fisher had to do to get him to go to FSU was to tell him to look at the history of NOT putting guys in the NFL. You don't get better by handing the ball off every play in the 4th quarter up by 35 points. I'd say it was NOT a "retarded" move. I'd say he's actually pretty smart because he is a starter in the NFL, and the best QB Saban has ever put in the NFL is a career benchwarmer. Winston developed at FSU.

    I'd say if you were a legit NFL potential talent, you'd be wasting your shot at being the NFL by going to Bama. But hey, I'm just going by the numbers. Saban is 0-fer when it comes to his QBs becoming starters in the NFL. Compare Mullen's track record, who has put Josh Harris, 14 year vet and #1 pick Alex Smith (who by the way was the current pro bowl starter), Heisman Trophy Winner and NFL starter Tim Tebow, and some guy named Dak who went on to have arguably the greatest rookie year for a QB in NFL history and currently has more endorsement deals than any other player in the NFL. He also started in the pro bowl. Saban has, well, his lone QB currently in the league has his own restaurant. No major endorsement deals, but nobody really wants that anyway, right? What people really dream of is owning their own restaurant. If that's your dream, Saban is right up your alley!
    #triggered.
    "It is not courage to resist TUSK; It is courage to accept TUSK."

    No.


    Easy there buddy. Tusk is...well Tusk is Tusk. Tireddawg 12.20.17

  18. #38
    Senior Member Gutter Cobreh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSUDAWGFAN View Post
    Jameis Winston grew up a Bama fan in Mobile. He wanted to go there. But all Jimbo Fisher had to do to get him to go to FSU was to tell him to look at the history of NOT putting guys in the NFL. You don't get better by handing the ball off every play in the 4th quarter up by 35 points. I'd say it was NOT a "retarded" move. I'd say he's actually pretty smart because he is a starter in the NFL, and the best QB Saban has ever put in the NFL is a career benchwarmer. Winston developed at FSU.

    I'd say if you were a legit NFL potential talent, you'd be wasting your shot at being the NFL by going to Bama. But hey, I'm just going by the numbers. Saban is 0-fer when it comes to his QBs becoming starters in the NFL. Compare Mullen's track record, who has put Josh Harris, 14 year vet and #1 pick Alex Smith (who by the way was the current pro bowl starter), Heisman Trophy Winner and NFL starter Tim Tebow, and some guy named Dak who went on to have arguably the greatest rookie year for a QB in NFL history and currently has more endorsement deals than any other player in the NFL. He also started in the pro bowl. Saban has, well, his lone QB currently in the league has his own restaurant. No major endorsement deals, but nobody really wants that anyway, right? What people really dream of is owning their own restaurant. If that's your dream, Saban is right up your alley!
    Really? You're using Winston as an example? He has trouble forming coherent sentences. I won't even bring up his college issues while at FSU. Maybe, just maybe, he didn't show Bama he was a good fit for their program.

    Saban has notoriously recruited smart kids to play QB (aka McClroy, McCarron, etc.). He needs a game manager for his system and offense to be successful. When you're stacked at RB and WR, you don't need a flashy QB to make the offense successful.

    We aren't comparing if Mullen develops QBs better than Saban. The OP asked if you were a top rated QB would you go to Bama, and the answer should be a resounding yes. Ask Shea Patterson if he'd rather be on Bama's roster right about now (since he was highly rated out of high school)?

    As a side, we got Prescott because Miles is an idiot. Glad we did, but he would have been a Tiger if they would have promised him a shot at QB.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh View Post
    Really? You're using Winston as an example? He has trouble forming coherent sentences. I won't even bring up his college issues while at FSU. Maybe, just maybe, he didn't show Bama he was a good fit for their program.

    Saban has notoriously recruited smart kids to play QB (aka McClroy, McCarron, etc.). He needs a game manager for his system and offense to be successful. When you're stacked at RB and WR, you don't need a flashy QB to make the offense successful.

    We aren't comparing if Mullen develops QBs better than Saban. The OP asked if you were a top rated QB would you go to Bama, and the answer should be a resounding yes. Ask Shea Patterson if he'd rather be on Bama's roster right about now (since he was highly rated out of high school)?

    As a side, we got Prescott because Miles is an idiot. Glad we did, but he would have been a Tiger if they would have promised him a shot at QB.
    Winston was absolutely offered by Bama. Your whole smart point goes out the window right there. If he wasn't a fit, Saban shouldn't have offered him. But he did. And Winston turned him down. Maybe, just maybe, he had the sense to realize the numbers don't add up for QBs going to Bama and decided to go somewhere else to develop. If you or Tusk can't handle that, I don't know what to say. I am objective and I look at numbers. If you are any other position, do you go to Bama? Sure, if you can get on the field, but not at QB.

    Also, Saban never recruited McElroy. He INHERITED him. So the smart kid who you say is the type of player Saban wants, wasn't recruited by Saban, and the player who is too "retarded" was. I think you have this backwards. Do you even look up ANYTHING before posting your drivel?

    Maybe Dak would have gone to LSU. I'm not disputing that. Maybe he wouldn't have ended up in the NFL either. We'll never know. Same with Winston possibly having gone to Bama. What we do know is that Saban is 0-fer in putting QBs in the league that end up starting. All the while he has signed at least one 4 or 5 star QB EVERY YEAR he has been there. Surely, one of these studs could go on to start, right? #FACTS
    Last edited by MSUDAWGFAN; 10-10-2017 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh View Post
    When you're stacked at RB and WR, you don't need a flashy QB to make the offense successful.

    The OP asked if you were a top rated QB would you go to Bama, and the answer should be a resounding yes.
    I agree with this first sentence. Saban's goal isn't to develop QBs, it's to win national championships. His formula for doing that is ball control and not turning the ball over. Run the clock down. And that formula is NOT conducive to developing a QB. Which is why I answered the question the OP asked the way I did. Should a top QB go somewhere else? If they have a shot to get to the NFL (and eventually become a starter) they should absolutely go anywhere else.

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