If You Were A Top QB Prospect, Would You Consider Bama?

[ShotgunDawg]

While watching Bama vs Texas A&M the other night, it kept dawning on me Bama's entire offensive philosophy & overall talent level, goes against what allows QBs to develop for the NFL.

I personally think Jalen Hurts is talented player that is currently in a terrible situation for his overall development towards becoming an NFL QB & likely will never start a game in the NFL due to this lack of development. I will also expand these thoughts to Tongivljalsdasdfasdf because I don't like the way the ball comes out of his hand.

The NFL is an 8-8 league in which QBs are tasked with raising the overall level of their teams play against other teams who have a similar talent as their own. How would any Alabama QB know how to do this?
How could any Bama QB, who plays in an offense & for a coach that believes that, since his talent level is so far superior to anyone else's, the QBs job is to look for his first read &, if that isn't there, run.

It's not that Bama has a bad QB coach, it's that their path of least resistance to winning games, is detrimental to QB development. I can't blame Bama coaches for that, as their job is to win Nattys, not to develop NFL QBs, but the point remains, if you were a top QB recruit with the goal of being an NFL starter, why would you go there?

Sure, you'll get a hot girlfriend, plenty of publicity, SEC Championships, & probably a Natty, but is that the goal? or is the goal to develop into an NFL QB?

I have read some articles where a number of NFL scouts say that one of the most important parts of QB development at the college level is responsibility. How much responsibility did that player have in running his offense, making reads, putting the team on his back. This is where they say they missed on Dak. They didn't realize how much responsibility he had at MSU.

If you look at most of the top NFL QBs, they were at mid-tier schools & raised the level of that school's play. They had decent talent around them but were tasked with finding a way for their decent talent to elevate & beat superior teams.

Dak - MSU
Rivers - NC State
Wilson - NC State/ Wisky
Eli - Ole Miss
Rodgers - Cal
Watson - Clemson (Watson elevated Clemson. They weren't a top recruiter)
Alex Smith - Utah
Newton - Aubur. That Auburn team had average talent.
Flacco - Delaware
Goff - Cal
Trubisky - UNC
Hoyer - Michigan State
Cousins - Michigan State
Dalton - TCU
Bortles - UCF
Brissett - NC State
Taylor - VT
Cutler - Vandy
Brees - Purdue
Roethliberger - Miami of Ohio
Ryan - BC
Carr - Fresno State

You also have some blue bloods, but most of the blue blood QBs were overwhelming talents - Stafford, Brady, Palmer, etc.

[Bully13]

what's bammer's / Saban's record on getting QB's into the NFL? (as how it pertains the point you are making)

[ShotgunDawg]

what's bammer's / Saban's record on getting QB's into the NFL? (as how it pertains the point you are making)

Up until AJ McCarron started a game for the Bengals a few years ago, Alabama had not had a QB start an NFL for almost 30 years.

[MSUDAWGFAN]

Up until AJ McCarron started a game for the Bengals a few years ago, Alabama had not had a QB start an NFL for almost 30 years.

Pretty sure that he only started a game because the full time starter had been injured. Bama/Saban doesn't put out NFL QB like they do every other position, but the QB position is one that you actually have to develop. If I was a good QB with NFL aspirations, no way I'd go to Bama. There has been nobody else on planet Earth to make more regular citizens out of can't miss NFL QB prospects than Nick Saban.

[parabrave]

You really have to consider the Coaches more than the school. Heck look at Bama did back in the 60's with QB.s. If my kid was a qb stud I would send him to Mark Ritch. Hey he has 2 in the NFL right now.

[BrunswickDawg]

I have read some articles where a number of NFL scouts say that one of the most important parts of QB development at the college level is responsibility. How much responsibility did that player have in running his offense, making reads, putting the team on his back. This is where they say they missed on Dak. They didn't realize how much responsibility he had at MSU.

That's a blessing and a curse for us I think. Dan really wants to prepare our QBs for the league, and has them doing very advance stuff with progressions and reads. But, with our average talent (meaning few future NFL guys on Offense), the rest of our offense isn't up to the task against teams that have NFL talent on D. It leads to missing open guys, or forcing balls. Our QBs are going with what "should" be happening by Dan's "book" instead of what is actually happening on the field. You saw it in spots with Dak, and see it a lot with Fitz. It's why when we play inferior teams our offense is almost unstoppable but elite teams shut us down. You give Dak that 8-8 talent, and he makes it better (just like he did our 6-6 talent). Fitz may be able to do that too. He is still not far behind where Dak was as a RSJr. - especially when you consider his lack of QB experience in HS.

[smootness]

That's a blessing and a curse for us I think. Dan really wants to prepare our QBs for the league, and has them doing very advance stuff with progressions and reads. But, with our average talent (meaning few future NFL guys on Offense), the rest of our offense isn't up to the task against teams that have NFL talent on D. It leads to missing open guys, or forcing balls. Our QBs are going with what "should" be happening by Dan's "book" instead of what is actually happening on the field. You saw it in spots with Dak, and see it a lot with Fitz. It's why when we play inferior teams our offense is almost unstoppable but elite teams shut us down. You give Dak that 8-8 talent, and he makes it better (just like he did our 6-6 talent). Fitz may be able to do that too. He is still not far behind where Dak was as a RSJr. - especially when you consider his lack of QB experience in HS.

The first half of your post doesn't seem to jibe with the second half. If Mullen is giving QBs freedom to make decisions based on reads and progressions, then how are they not responding to what is actually happening on the field?

I think the way Mullen handles QBs means that it often takes longer to get to our ceiling but gives us a higher ceiling once we get there. The thing that needs to change is the opening up of the offense, especially the downfield passing game, against the best teams on the schedule. I do think he sometimes hammers in the check-down a little too much, but overall I think it's a good thing for the offense.

[smootness]

Yes

[Hasu Dackds]

You have this backwards. Alabama's offense is actually tailor made for what actually works, percentage wise, in the NFL. The pro-style offensive system will always be the method of choice up there, and with that, you have to 1 - have the arm to make the throws, and 2 - possess great decision making. Everything else is simply gravy.

Alabama's problem has been quarterback evaluation. I don't think Hurts is an NFL quarterback, but he's a good college quarterback, in a great situation. Having talent around you is never a bad thing. I see several things in your post above that are just wrong. Clemson wasn't a top recruiter? WTF? Auburn had average talent around Cam? WTF? Did you see their offensive line?

Isn't McCarron in the NFL?

[ShotgunDawg]

You have this backwards. Alabama's offense is actually tailor made for what actually works, percentage wise, in the NFL. The pro-style offensive system will always be the method of choice up there, and with that, you have to 1 - have the arm to make the throws, and 2 - possess great decision making. Everything else is simply gravy.

Alabama's problem has been quarterback evaluation. I don't think Hurts is an NFL quarterback, but he's a good college quarterback, in a great situation. Having talent around you is never a bad thing. I see several things in your post above that are just wrong. Clemson wasn't a top recruiter? WTF? Auburn had average talent around Cam? WTF? Did you see their offensive line?

Isn't McCarron in the NFL?

I completely disagree with every thing you just said here. Developing to be an NFL QB has very little to do with your college system IMO (outside of the triple option) & much more to do with responsibility. Having more talent than everyone you play is absolutely a bad thing when learning to elevate your team & overcome your weaknesses is a significant part of development.

[Hasu Dackds]

Having more talent than everyone you play is absolutely a bad thing when learning to elevate your team & overcome your weaknesses is a significant part of development.

I could see how a little complacency could creep in here for the average kid, yes. Adversity is a good thing for most people.

Previously I was talking more just scheme and success rate in general, which sets you up to be a pretty high draft pick. Yeah, intangibles are a big deal, but let's face it, the NFL is still looking at measurables and prototypes. If you have success in an Alabama type offense it's sort of hard for the NFL not to draft you.

Hard work is a completely different subject altogether.

[ShotgunDawg]

I could see how a little complacency could creep in here for the average kid, yes. Adversity is a good thing for most people.

Previously I was talking more just scheme and success rate in general, which sets you up to be a pretty high draft pick. Yeah, intangibles are a big deal, but let's face it, the NFL is still looking at measurables and prototypes. If you have success in an Alabama type offense it's sort of hard for the NFL not to draft you.

Hard work is a completely different subject altogether.

Well, actually having to read a defense because everyone isn't wide ass open & learning to pick up 3rd & 10s is also a good thing.

The Bama QB has no stress in the game. They either throw it to the first read, run, or throw it in the 3rd row.

[sonofozarka]

You have this backwards. Alabama's offense is actually tailor made for what actually works, percentage wise, in the NFL. The pro-style offensive system will always be the method of choice up there, and with that, you have to 1 - have the arm to make the throws, and 2 - possess great decision making. Everything else is simply gravy.

Alabama's problem has been quarterback evaluation. I don't think Hurts is an NFL quarterback, but he's a good college quarterback, in a great situation. Having talent around you is never a bad thing. I see several things in your post above that are just wrong. Clemson wasn't a top recruiter? WTF? Auburn had average talent around Cam? WTF? Did you see their offensive line?

Isn't McCarron in the NFL?

I agree with this, playing under a former pro coach (Daboll) with a multiple, pro style approach that can teach you to have full field reads and have play calls that use verbiage and aren't just pictures of a cartoon character are still going to be good ways to impress NFL scouts.

That's the reason why Jimbo Fisher gets every QB he touches drafted, because he runs a multiple, pro style approach where the QB makes a lot of decisions instead of the "check with me" audible approach where the QB looks to the sideline to get the check and then just has 1 defender to read and 1 to 2 options.

The NFL is gravitating more toward a college offense though (Chiefs have a lot of RPO concepts), but you're always going to have the stubborn NFL guys that think their way is the only way.

I just think, like this poster said, that Bama has had bad evals. Hurts and Sims aren't NFL material, neither was Jake Coker. Greg McElroy had a cup of coffee in the NFL but wasn't physically talented enough. Blake Barnett, David Cornwell, and Cooper Bateman were highly rated by recruiting services, but were all obviously overrated since none of the 3 are starting at the schools they've now transferred to.
McCarron is a borderline NFL starter and showed you what an NFL QB can do at Bama.

I think with Hurts they wanted to go more RPO and use their QB as a runner since they had been having such a hard time defending it. Problem is he's just not near the natural passer that dual threats like Cam, Deshaun Watson, and Dak are. Hurts is pretty below average as a natural passer, although I think Taguilova will be good

[Johnson85]

You have this backwards. Alabama's offense is actually tailor made for what actually works, percentage wise, in the NFL. The pro-style offensive system will always be the method of choice up there, and with that, you have to 1 - have the arm to make the throws, and 2 - possess great decision making. Everything else is simply gravy.

Alabama's problem has been quarterback evaluation. I don't think Hurts is an NFL quarterback, but he's a good college quarterback, in a great situation. Having talent around you is never a bad thing. I see several things in your post above that are just wrong. Clemson wasn't a top recruiter? WTF? Auburn had average talent around Cam? WTF? Did you see their offensive line?

Isn't McCarron in the NFL?

Alabama's offensive system is good for QB's looking to go pro. What is not good is having 9 or even 10 games a year where your team is so dominant that it doesn't really matter what you do, especially if your OL is consistently giving you plenty of time to throw and your WRs are good enough that you don't have to make great throws to move the offense.

I definitely think Bama has had some QBs lately that weren't making it regardless, but I do think McCarron benefited from playing in possibly the strongest division ever. If McCarron is playing on the last few year of alabama teams, I think they end up so dominant that it does result in him progressing less than he did playing the competition he actually played.

ETA: All that to say, I'd definitely consider Bama. But I would be less inclined to go there as a QB compared to any other position.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Yes I would. Get to have great OL protecting me, all the skilled position players around me making me look way better than I really am AND have a chance to win NC every year.....Yea, I'll take it....(says every Alabama QB the last 15 years)

[parabrave]

Yes I would. Get to have great OL protecting me, all the skilled position players around me making me look way better than I really am AND have a chance to win NC every year.....Yea, I'll take it....(says every Alabama QB the last 15 years)

Same thing with their Running Backs.

[BrunswickDawg]

The first half of your post doesn't seem to jibe with the second half. If Mullen is giving QBs freedom to make decisions based on reads and progressions, then how are they not responding to what is actually happening on the field?

I think the way Mullen handles QBs means that it often takes longer to get to our ceiling but gives us a higher ceiling once we get there. The thing that needs to change is the opening up of the offense, especially the downfield passing game, against the best teams on the schedule. I do think he sometimes hammers in the check-down a little too much, but overall I think it's a good thing for the offense.

I mean our QBs are trained to make the reads and progressions but the talent around them can?t get to their spots or are defended too tightly for it to work, and the play fails.

You are right on opening up - we just can?t seem to figure out how to do it against elite Ds.

[TUSK]

Yeppers. But I’m a homer.

[Maroonthirteen]

Uh, Yes. You would play on National TV every weekend and probably college football's biggest stage... the NC game.

Btw, they landed a QB from Hawaii.


https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/b...ted-to-alabama

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Yes I'd send my son there no doubt