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Thread: I really don't get the attitude of a lot of State fans right now.

  1. #21
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bostondawg View Post
    If I may play the clarifying devil's advocate here, OP:

    Absolutely no one is upset with the outlook at our record. We still are looking at somewhere between 7 and 9 wins. That's fine. Again, you're making a strawman here--no one is upset about that.

    Some posters (including myself) are upset about the fact that our team is much worse (read: coached) than we expected this season. That isn't the same thing as a problem with the record. Essentially, what we've learned is that while our record should still be fine, the SEC is much worse than anyone anticipated. This conference is absolutely awful. Remove the top 3 teams and this conference is the worst in power football, probably. LSU lost to Troy. These posters aren't patting themselves on the back for beating a team that lost to Troy (nor should they). We've learned that this conference is not very good, and that pushes the quality of our wins down too. So, cool, we went 1-2 down in a stretch we were hoping to go 1-2 in. No one is upset about that. We're upset about being embarrassed two weeks in a row and then finding out that the one win we thought was good couldn't even beat Troy at home in front of 95k fans.

    The consequence of this, more importantly, is that the SEC is as bad as it's been in years; meanwhile, MSU with a 9th year head coach should be looking pretty good--coaching stability, recruiting is marginally better, TSUN is in the toilet. This is our chance to make waves in the SEC, when everyone else is down and we're theoretically looking up. However, these past three weeks have taught us that we aren't even close to making moves. Due to poor coaching and recruiting, we're not taking advantage of the best opportunity our program has had in maybe decades.
    You make it sound like this opportunity has an expiration date like a carton of milk.

    Patience Grasshopper. Things must unfold with ole miss first and recruiting has already taken a big upturn lately.

    The opportunity you speak of is just around the corner. It hasn't passed us by just yet.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Reunion Dog's Avatar
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    whomevere thought we were going to have an improved line needs to put down the crack pipe immedidately. Fat Ass Hevesy and his $400k salary needs to be gone yesterday. Patheric recruiting and coaching. I am sick and tired of seeing our qb's and running backs getting hit in our own backfield. This is on Mullen. Time for Keenum to demand a change.... our we will never compete for the elite status.

    Our db's just must be dumb. I mean no racist comment by that. They are ALWAYS out of position. Can't fault Gratham for that... but 99 yard td out of endzone... u got to believe they are gonna try that. Hell i bet that play happens more that 50% to teams... yet we acted like we never even thought about them doing it.... Receivers suck. Every team know we are gonna go 3 to 5 yards across the middle of the field or throw to back out on a roll out. This is lack of recruiting... NO EXCUSE for how bad we are in positions in majority areas.

    i expect us to win more games becasue some teams have worse talent than we do.... Kentucky won't be a guranteed W, nor will a@m, or Ark.

    If we don't have a coach that can go get a junior college 6'5" receiver that can actually CATCH the ball... there need to be changes made. ******* is making $5M and very content becasue we are accepting of it. He gets out coached in big games and basically runs 10 plays.

    It's time ******* has some heat put on him. only person can do that is Keenum.... and believe me... He cares..
    screw it.. We are a National Power House in Women's basketball.... to bad Vic can't coach football....

  3. #23
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Let's be real, if UGA was 28-10 instead of 31-3, and AU was 35-21 instead of 49-10, this is a whole different board right now. We shouldn't be getting our teeth kicked in like that 2 consecutive weeks, & it has folks pissed. It should. It would be unhealthy for our program if our fans were like Vandy's and just shrugged our shoulders and said "it's okay boys, better luck next time". We are starting to raise expectations, and that's ok. In fact, that's what we all wanted. Now let's just hope the players & coaches are doing what it takes to improve so the last two weeks doesn't happen again anytime soon.

    Road games are tough in this league. Especially night games on the road. Especially when you're playing good teams that aren't overlooking you.

    The other part, is that It's Mullen's job to figure out how to get his offense going when teams can stop our run. I think he sees that and is bringing in some WR's...but he dropped the ball the last few years in WR recruiting (his staff did too, but that falls on him). At least he's trying to address it, we just have to get through this year & realize we were faked out early....we're a team that is a 7-9 win team for the next few years, which is good. But we have some QB's coming in that have more raw talent, WR's with height, speed, skills...RB's like we haven't had in years (Hill)...& more defensive talent committed. We need some DB's that can run & cover, & more talent & depth at OL. And Heath & Guidry must become yearly type additions in our recruiting classes. Otherwise, we need to just be happy with 6-8 wins...bc if we want to win 9+ & compete for the West, we must be a complete team & have playmakers on O that can change the outcome of a game.
    Well said. This is how I feel. I'm not disappointed in the team as much as I am the coaching staff for allowing certain things to happen in recruiting that were avoidable.

    I think even if you are Alabama you have to look for ways to get better. Some people may see that as "complaining", "bitching", "disappointment" or whatever- but the truth in life is if you aren't looking to get better you are going to get stagnant and then will quickly go backwards. Because everyone in this league is trying to figure out how to win a championship. I don't want to go from a 7-9 win team back to a 3-5 win team with cronies telling me about what our coach did in 2014 and how I should be thankful it's not 1969 MSU football anymore.

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    People upset about not being competitive vs top 15 teams is a valid concern.

  5. #25
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyper View Post
    People upset about not being competitive vs top 15 teams is a valid concern.
    Miss state fan policy is you cant use a teams ranking until the end of the season*

  6. #26
    Senior Member BoomBoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson85 View Post
    Going into the season, we thought/knew we had
    (1) a QB that is still growing in the passing game,
    (2) a big time question mark at RT and somewhat of a question at LG,
    (3) a very weak receiving corp made of mostly good #3 or serviceable #2 receivers,
    (4) question marks in the secondary,
    (5) a defense that was going to take time to gel because it consisted of new comers and people coached by Peter 17ing Sirmon for the past year.
    (6) a team that was probably going to win 6-8 games, and that would be ready to challenge everybody but the elite in 2018, and maybe even could challenge the elite in 2018 if the right things fell into place as far as OL development and WR signees.

    So basically, we killed LSU, and many people (including me, thought we might be elite), and then we played UGA, and figured out we aren't elite, but that we might be pretty good, and then we played Auburn, and found out we are exactly what we though before a season. The only thing that is different from the beginning of the season is that we have confirmed we are just an ok team that is one year away, and we now know that SECW is as terrible as it's been since A&M got here, and we could legitimately win 9 games with a mediocre team (although realistically we'll probably slip up at least one if not two along the way).

    The reality is that the die was cast for this year a few years ago with Mullen's recruiting. Mullen let things get away from him, and it appears that he has his ass in gear after either bad luck or losing a little bit of his fire resulted in a 2015 without a O-line for the first half or a RB for the entire season and a cluster 17 of a 2016 season.

    But we were not one year from a fix last year, and things are going pretty well considering how bad Mullen had let the talent get. We were bailed out by a JUCO signing class that filled in some holes other than OL and WR. This is basically the best case realistic scenario from where we were after the USA game in 2016. It sucks that we are not competitive against good teams, but why did anyone think we would be after the shit year we had last year. The only outstanding gripe I see is that we still have the O-line coach that has left us paper thin on the OL and one offensive lineman short of a starting 17ing lineup, but we have improved OL recruiting some, even if we are still not signing enough to give us a chance to have a full starting lineup and an adequate number of backups, and maybe the Looney hiring is putting Hev on notice. All in all, we are doing ok considering how bad it got last year.

    The TLDR version is this is way better than I expected a year ago, and I'm not going to let LSU suckering us into thinking we are better than average stop me from enjoying a season where we are going to win ~8 games the year before what should be our peak season.
    i think many fans realized what i had long ago about Mullen. he has a system, he's going to run it week in and week out all season with very few wrinkles or adjustments. have a superior run game, a terrible passing game, and playing a team that can't defend the run? doesn't matter, we're throwing the ball just as much as normal. the wrinkles he does try to throw in are usually pretty bad (see fake punts), it's a system that works pretty well against inferior (and arguably equal) opponents but pretty badly against elite opponents. it's that last one that hits hard. it makes you realize Mullen is an 7-9 win coach, and will never be more. a generic coach with generic talent has a much better chance of beating a top team. he just doesn't have it in him to tweak things week in and out for an advantage, to get more out of less. ok, give him Alabama talent and he MAY win more. MAYBE. but.......what coach does that not apply to? he gets credit for many things he shouldn't get credit for (running an actual offense, because we suffered under Croom and Jackie for years, running a competent program, because we suffered under LT for decades, etc.).

    In other words, he gets paid as and treated as a 4* coach.......but barely delivers a 3* performance. it's not like he should be run off.......but we can do better. or worse! but all the fluffing leads to some serious blue balls when he fails to deliver (again). we all managed to convince ourselves that Mullen had finally changed, and then reality set in. he's the same Mullen, always will be the same Mullen. and people are pretty tired of the same shortcomings over and over again. and poor game planning being blamed on "execution". if you can run for 4 ypc and can barely break double digits, then there's a coaching problem, not a talent problem.

    Mullen's record against top teams cannot be explained by a lack of talent. It can be explained by who the head coach is.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    You make it sound like this opportunity has an expiration date like a carton of milk.

    Patience Grasshopper. Things must unfold with ole miss first and recruiting has already taken a big upturn lately.

    The opportunity you speak of is just around the corner. It hasn't passed us by just yet.
    Fair enough, thanks for the advice. Admittedly, I'm a young fan relative to many on this board, and perhaps for that reason I don't appreciate the awful seasons and situations that some have had to deal with, and I can be impatient.

    I think my impatience is due to my belief that, more or less, this opportunity does have an expiration date. Maybe it's a long ways out and we'll be just fine, but LSU isn't gonna be down forever. Nor will TAMU. Hell, TSUN will start being competitive with us in a few years again. It seems like if we're going to seize the chance, it's going to have to be while Sumlin is staggering his way through College Station, Ed O is losing to Troy, Arkansas is led by Fat Bert, and cheating has TSUN in shambles.

    Here's to optimism.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bostondawg View Post
    If I may play the clarifying devil's advocate here, OP:
    We're upset about being embarrassed two weeks in a row...

    The consequence of this, more importantly, is that the SEC is as bad as it's been in years; meanwhile, MSU with a 9th year head coach should be looking pretty good--coaching stability, recruiting is marginally better, TSUN is in the toilet. This is our chance to make waves in the SEC, when everyone else is down and we're theoretically looking up. However, these past three weeks have taught us that we aren't even close to making moves. Due to poor coaching and recruiting, we're not taking advantage of the best opportunity our program has had in maybe decades.
    ^^^This

  9. #29
    Senior Member Apoplectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Let's be real, if UGA was 28-10 instead of 31-3, and AU was 35-21 instead of 49-10, this is a whole different board right now. We shouldn't be getting our teeth kicked in like that 2 consecutive weeks, & it has folks pissed. It should. It would be unhealthy for our program if our fans were like Vandy's and just shrugged our shoulders and said "it's okay boys, better luck next time". We are starting to raise expectations, and that's ok. In fact, that's what we all wanted. Now let's just hope the players & coaches are doing what it takes to improve so the last two weeks doesn't happen again anytime soon.

    Road games are tough in this league. Especially night games on the road. Especially when you're playing good teams that aren't overlooking you.

    The other part, is that It's Mullen's job to figure out how to get his offense going when teams can stop our run. I think he sees that and is bringing in some WR's...but he dropped the ball the last few years in WR recruiting (his staff did too, but that falls on him). At least he's trying to address it, we just have to get through this year & realize we were faked out early....we're a team that is a 7-9 win team for the next few years, which is good. But we have some QB's coming in that have more raw talent, WR's with height, speed, skills...RB's like we haven't had in years (Hill)...& more defensive talent committed. We need some DB's that can run & cover, & more talent & depth at OL. And Heath & Guidry must become yearly type additions in our recruiting classes. Otherwise, we need to just be happy with 6-8 wins...bc if we want to win 9+ & compete for the West, we must be a complete team & have playmakers on O that can change the outcome of a game.
    bingo!!! is it too much to ask in 17n year 8, 9 or whatever that we can't make it a game at basket case auburn? 2nd year coach uga?

  10. #30
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    I disagree that the SEC is bad. The SEC is what- 4-1 vs the ACC?

    Bama, Georgia, and Auburn are top 10 teams if not top 5
    Florida leads the East at 3-0, with home games vs LSU, A&M, and Fla State , plus winnables @Mizzou and @SC.
    Kentucky, State, and A&M are top 30 teams. Kentucky is going to beat Mizzou to get to 5-1 and have a week of to get ready for State. Kentucky is 2nd in the SEC vs the run
    Vandy is 3-0 outside the SEC with a win over Kansas State
    SC is 3-2 with wins over NC State and La Tech

    The SEC is not bad this year- we likely find that out in games coming up

  11. #31
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyper View Post
    I disagree that the SEC is bad. The SEC is what- 4-1 vs the ACC?

    Bama, Georgia, and Auburn are top 10 teams if not top 5
    Florida leads the East at 3-0, with home games vs LSU, A&M, and Fla State , plus winnables @Mizzou and @SC.
    Kentucky, State, and A&M are top 30 teams. Kentucky is going to beat Mizzou to get to 5-1 and have a week of to get ready for State. Kentucky is 2nd in the SEC vs the run
    Vandy is 3-0 outside the SEC with a win over Kansas State
    SC is 3-2 with wins over NC State and La Tech

    The SEC is not bad this year- we likely find that out in games coming up
    .

    Agree. It may be down a little but if you think the sec is bad watch the other conferences.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
    i think many fans realized what i had long ago about Mullen. he has a system, he's going to run it week in and week out all season with very few wrinkles or adjustments. have a superior run game, a terrible passing game, and playing a team that can't defend the run? doesn't matter, we're throwing the ball just as much as normal. the wrinkles he does try to throw in are usually pretty bad (see fake punts), it's a system that works pretty well against inferior (and arguably equal) opponents but pretty badly against elite opponents. it's that last one that hits hard. it makes you realize Mullen is an 7-9 win coach, and will never be more. a generic coach with generic talent has a much better chance of beating a top team. he just doesn't have it in him to tweak things week in and out for an advantage, to get more out of less. ok, give him Alabama talent and he MAY win more. MAYBE. but.......what coach does that not apply to? he gets credit for many things he shouldn't get credit for (running an actual offense, because we suffered under Croom and Jackie for years, running a competent program, because we suffered under LT for decades, etc.).

    In other words, he gets paid as and treated as a 4* coach.......but barely delivers a 3* performance. it's not like he should be run off.......but we can do better. or worse! but all the fluffing leads to some serious blue balls when he fails to deliver (again). we all managed to convince ourselves that Mullen had finally changed, and then reality set in. he's the same Mullen, always will be the same Mullen. and people are pretty tired of the same shortcomings over and over again. and poor game planning being blamed on "execution". if you can run for 4 ypc and can barely break double digits, then there's a coaching problem, not a talent problem.

    Mullen's record against top teams cannot be explained by a lack of talent. It can be explained by who the head coach is.
    I think this problem could be solved if Mullen would actually give up the playcalling and be the HEAD coach. Very few people can pull this micro-managing stuff off, Bobby Petrino is one of them. Mullen isn't. He needs to take the next step. He's got to give it to Gonzales or go find some people he can trust to run his system.

    Biggest problem is still talent, though. It's consistently weak on the offensive line.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Apoplectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasu Dackds View Post
    I think this problem could be solved if Mullen would actually give up the playcalling and be the HEAD coach. Very few people can pull this micro-managing stuff off, Bobby Petrino is one of them. Mullen isn't. He needs to take the next step. He's got to give it to Gonzales or go find some people he can trust to run his system.

    Biggest problem is still talent, though. It's consistently weak on the offensive line.
    disagree - he already tried that. remember les?

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    I think all the angst is caused by an unacknowledged fear that our 7-9 wins could turn into 4-6 wins in a flash.

    That 7-9 win forecast is based on "our opponents suck".

    And they probably do. But what leads us to believe we suck less than they do? Our skull dragging of a shitty ed o led bunch of corndogs? Skull draggings by UGA and AU, who, until they beat our sucky ass were suspect? And now, because they beat our ass they're top 5?

    Right now we have no basis to think we're any better than tam, ark, or anybody else except byu and I'm not sure about them. Dear God save us from losses to byu and unm.

    Yea yea I understand tam and ark et al have looked like warmed over dogshit

    So have we. We're talking relative levels of shittiness here.

    Unless things change 4-5 wins could as easily be on the horizon as 7-9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
    i think many fans realized what i had long ago about Mullen. he has a system, he's going to run it week in and week out all season with very few wrinkles or adjustments. have a superior run game, a terrible passing game, and playing a team that can't defend the run? doesn't matter, we're throwing the ball just as much as normal. the wrinkles he does try to throw in are usually pretty bad (see fake punts), it's a system that works pretty well against inferior (and arguably equal) opponents but pretty badly against elite opponents. it's that last one that hits hard. it makes you realize Mullen is an 7-9 win coach, and will never be more. a generic coach with generic talent has a much better chance of beating a top team. he just doesn't have it in him to tweak things week in and out for an advantage, to get more out of less. ok, give him Alabama talent and he MAY win more. MAYBE. but.......what coach does that not apply to? he gets credit for many things he shouldn't get credit for (running an actual offense, because we suffered under Croom and Jackie for years, running a competent program, because we suffered under LT for decades, etc.).

    In other words, he gets paid as and treated as a 4* coach.......but barely delivers a 3* performance. it's not like he should be run off.......but we can do better. or worse! but all the fluffing leads to some serious blue balls when he fails to deliver (again). we all managed to convince ourselves that Mullen had finally changed, and then reality set in. he's the same Mullen, always will be the same Mullen. and people are pretty tired of the same shortcomings over and over again. and poor game planning being blamed on "execution". if you can run for 4 ypc and can barely break double digits, then there's a coaching problem, not a talent problem.

    Mullen's record against top teams cannot be explained by a lack of talent. It can be explained by who the head coach is.
    Pretty good synopsis. In addition to poor game planning being blamed on "execution", he also blames mistakes on our "young team". Perhaps if we had recruited better, we wouldn't have such a young team. But, the obvious problem, which Mullen refuses to fix, is our inadequate play on the OL. We shouldn't be getting blown out in games in year 9 of Mullen's tenure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fieldcorporal View Post
    I think all the angst is caused by an unacknowledged fear that our 7-9 wins could turn into 4-6 wins in a flash.

    That 7-9 win forecast is based on "our opponents suck".

    And they probably do. But what leads us to believe we suck less than they do? Our skull dragging of a shitty ed o led bunch of corndogs? Skull draggings by UGA and AU, who, until they beat our sucky ass were suspect? And now, because they beat our ass they're top 5?

    Right now we have no basis to think we're any better than tam, ark, or anybody else except byu and I'm not sure about them. Dear God save us from losses to byu and unm.

    Yea yea I understand tam and ark et al have looked like warmed over dogshit

    So have we. We're talking relative levels of shittiness here.

    Unless things change 4-5 wins could as easily be on the horizon as 7-9.
    This is sort of where I am. It's entirely conceivable to me that we look up in two months and we've lost to A&M, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Alabama. If any of those games were this weekend, I'd bet we'd only be favored against Kentucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson85 View Post
    Going into the season, we thought/knew we had
    (1) a QB that is still growing in the passing game,
    (2) a big time question mark at RT and somewhat of a question at LG,
    (3) a very weak receiving corp made of mostly good #3 or serviceable #2 receivers,
    (4) question marks in the secondary,
    (5) a defense that was going to take time to gel because it consisted of new comers and people coached by Peter 17ing Sirmon for the past year.
    (6) a team that was probably going to win 6-8 games, and that would be ready to challenge everybody but the elite in 2018, and maybe even could challenge the elite in 2018 if the right things fell into place as far as OL development and WR signees.

    So basically, we killed LSU, and many people (including me, thought we might be elite), and then we played UGA, and figured out we aren't elite, but that we might be pretty good, and then we played Auburn, and found out we are exactly what we though before a season. The only thing that is different from the beginning of the season is that we have confirmed we are just an ok team that is one year away, and we now know that SECW is as terrible as it's been since A&M got here, and we could legitimately win 9 games with a mediocre team (although realistically we'll probably slip up at least one if not two along the way).

    The reality is that the die was cast for this year a few years ago with Mullen's recruiting. Mullen let things get away from him, and it appears that he has his ass in gear after either bad luck or losing a little bit of his fire resulted in a 2015 without a O-line for the first half or a RB for the entire season and a cluster 17 of a 2016 season.

    But we were not one year from a fix last year, and things are going pretty well considering how bad Mullen had let the talent get. We were bailed out by a JUCO signing class that filled in some holes other than OL and WR. This is basically the best case realistic scenario from where we were after the USA game in 2016. It sucks that we are not competitive against good teams, but why did anyone think we would be after the shit year we had last year. The only outstanding gripe I see is that we still have the O-line coach that has left us paper thin on the OL and one offensive lineman short of a starting 17ing lineup, but we have improved OL recruiting some, even if we are still not signing enough to give us a chance to have a full starting lineup and an adequate number of backups, and maybe the Looney hiring is putting Hev on notice. All in all, we are doing ok considering how bad it got last year.

    The TLDR version is this is way better than I expected a year ago, and I'm not going to let LSU suckering us into thinking we are better than average stop me from enjoying a season where we are going to win ~8 games the year before what should be our peak season.
    I agree. But I do get them.

  18. #38
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    Mullen called one of the best games I've ever seen against LSU. It was a masterpiece. LaTech was close to the same. We were outmatched at UGA and tanked at Auburn when we lost our best OL and got behind fast. I'm still not disappointed with Dan's play calling though. I get frustrated passing on 1st down so much, but long term I think we'll be a better offense for it. I also wonder if Dan thinks he's making a push next year too and is already getting prepared for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Political Hack View Post
    Mullen called one of the best games I've ever seen against LSU. It was a masterpiece. LaTech was close to the same. We were outmatched at UGA and tanked at Auburn when we lost our best OL and got behind fast. I'm still not disappointed with Dan's play calling though. I get frustrated passing on 1st down so much, but long term I think we'll be a better offense for it. I also wonder if Dan thinks he's making a push next year too and is already getting prepared for it.
    Now that?s a great post. Agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasu Dackds View Post
    I think this problem could be solved if Mullen would actually give up the playcalling and be the HEAD coach. Very few people can pull this micro-managing stuff off, Bobby Petrino is one of them. Mullen isn't. He needs to take the next step. He's got to give it to Gonzales or go find some people he can trust to run his system.

    Biggest problem is still talent, though. It's consistently weak on the offensive line.
    but Mullen's main value is in playcalling. supposedly. he doesn't actually do any of the things a HC does that well (managing clock, motivating, etc).

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