I really don't get the attitude of a lot of State fans right now.

[BoomBoom]

Mullen called one of the best games I've ever seen against LSU. It was a masterpiece. LaTech was close to the same. We were outmatched at UGA and tanked at Auburn when we lost our best OL and got behind fast. I'm still not disappointed with Dan's play calling though. I get frustrated passing on 1st down so much, but long term I think we'll be a better offense for it. I also wonder if Dan thinks he's making a push next year too and is already getting prepared for it.

yeah but it was the same plays. LSU just sucks.

we tanked at Auburn when we decided to try to open up the run by establishing the pass. the exact same gameplan as against LSU and Georgia. and it won't change all year. doesn't matter that we averaged 4ypc against Georgia and Auburn, we're still going to open the Bama game by trying to open up the run by establishing the pass. then we'll be behind and have to air raid it. again.

I do wonder how much he is doing this to improve Fitz for later. but mostly i see that as wishful thinking, he's just who he is. he cannot stand to win a game by running the ball.

[Todd4State]

Mullen called one of the best games I've ever seen against LSU. It was a masterpiece. LaTech was close to the same. We were outmatched at UGA and tanked at Auburn when we lost our best OL and got behind fast. I'm still not disappointed with Dan's play calling though. I get frustrated passing on 1st down so much, but long term I think we'll be a better offense for it. I also wonder if Dan thinks he's making a push next year too and is already getting prepared for it.

I agree. I don't think the play calling is bad. It looks bad when WR's don't catch passes that they should and when the o-line is not winning at the LOS. If we ran Nick 40 times we might have slightly better results, but we would also probably be starting Key by the Alabama game because of the wear and tear that Nick would take. Fitz misses some reads at times as well.

Most of those issues aren't corrected with better play calling. They're fixed with recruiting more talented players.

[Todd4State]

yeah but it was the same plays. LSU just sucks.

we tanked at Auburn when we decided to try to open up the run by establishing the pass. the exact same gameplan as against LSU and Georgia. and it won't change all year. doesn't matter that we averaged 4ypc against Georgia and Auburn, we're still going to open the Bama game by trying to open up the run by establishing the pass. then we'll be behind and have to air raid it. again.

I do wonder how much he is doing this to improve Fitz for later. but mostly i see that as wishful thinking, he's just who he is. he cannot stand to win a game by running the ball.

We can only run it so much in the SEC without some balance. Teams will stack 8-9 guys in the box like they did with Jackie. There's not a lot we can do to duct tape it right now. If we give Kylin more touches realistically that's only going to help so much. Using two backs and using a TE or two TE set is only going to help us so much. That is about all of our realistic options right now at least against elite teams.

Dan's play calling and personnel groupings will work fine against lesser SEC teams. Hopefully Grantham helps us out and gets us a couple of more wins because that was the issue at least in the Arkansas game where we scored a lot of points but we gave up a ton too.

[Howboutdemdogs]

It's funny how the media mouth peices don't give us any press before the season. Then, after LSU they plugged us as much as they could. All the love we could handle from the outlets. Now, they all say, "Well, I was right all along, State is a lower tier team". I believe that we all bought into the hyped press after LSU, which now we are butt hurt. This is what is killing most of us,,,,,the hoping for an elite team, which we are not there yet. And yes, I want an elite consistent team.

[BoomBoom]

We can only run it so much in the SEC without some balance. Teams will stack 8-9 guys in the box like they did with Jackie. There's not a lot we can do to duct tape it right now. If we give Kylin more touches realistically that's only going to help so much. Using two backs and using a TE or two TE set is only going to help us so much. That is about all of our realistic options right now at least against elite teams.

Dan's play calling and personnel groupings will work fine against lesser SEC teams. Hopefully Grantham helps us out and gets us a couple of more wins because that was the issue at least in the Arkansas game where we scored a lot of points but we gave up a ton too.

You know who didn't stop from running the ball? Georgia and Auburn. You know who did stop us? Mullen. Establish the run, then pass off play action when they stuff the box. The question is why Mullen stubbornly refuses to follow this gameplan.

[shrimp]

Agree. We abandoned the run game way too early in both games. Fitz only had 3 rushing attempts in the first half against Auburn. Then after we were down by 32, late in the game, he ran the ball like 3 times on one drive. Mind-bottling.

You know who didn't stop from running the ball? Georgia and Auburn. You know who did stop us? Mullen. Establish the run, then pass off play action when they stuff the box. The question is why Mullen stubbornly refuses to follow this gameplan.

[Liverpooldawg]

You know who didn't stop from running the ball? Georgia and Auburn. You know who did stop us? Mullen. Establish the run, then pass off play action when they stuff the box. The question is why Mullen stubbornly refuses to follow this gameplan.

We watched different games.

[bluelightstar]

We watched different games.

I agree with you in terms of Georgia. I never felt like we were running effectively until the fourth quarter when it didn't matter. I thought we found much better success against Auburn, but we wouldn't commit to it. There were drives in the first half where we would run for 6 yards on first down and then throw two incomplete passes and I believe I remember at least one drive where we just came out and threw three incomplete passes.

[Really Clark?]

You know who didn't stop from running the ball? Georgia and Auburn. You know who did stop us? Mullen. Establish the run, then pass off play action when they stuff the box. The question is why Mullen stubbornly refuses to follow this gameplan.

Teams are stuffing the box on first and second downs. Kinda of hard to run play action on third down when they are playing the run nearly every down and we are getting behind the chains either from a run being stuffed or incomplete pass. (Or all the false starts against Auburn). Y'all are not factoring in the RPO's that we throw from because of the defensive alignment against the run or Fitz not running because of his read in the read option plays.

[Johnson85]

Well said. This is how I feel. I'm not disappointed in the team as much as I am the coaching staff for allowing certain things to happen in recruiting that were avoidable.

I completely agree with this; my only thing is that I was pissed about this last year. The ball was dropped essentially following up on 2014 and continuing until we did what we had to do to close on last year's JUCO class. As far as I can tell, Mullen has finally addressed everything that is within his control, with the exception of Hevesy. And I am trying to be patient on Hevesy because I do think he can coach and we have started to get some better talent, even if we are still not signing enough bodies period. If Looney can help him recruit, that may be a good situation.

I think even if you are Alabama you have to look for ways to get better. Some people may see that as "complaining", "bitching", "disappointment" or whatever- but the truth in life is if you aren't looking to get better you are going to get stagnant and then will quickly go backwards. Because everyone in this league is trying to figure out how to win a championship. I don't want to go from a 7-9 win team back to a 3-5 win team with cronies telling me about what our coach did in 2014 and how I should be thankful it's not 1969 MSU football anymore.

I completely agree, I just think we are doing things to get better. As I said, the cake was baked for this year well before this year started. But it looks like we finally have addressed our WR recruiting deficiencies. It looks like we are going to actually take advantage of Ole Miss being down when we actually have a lot of in state talent to recruit. The only remaining issue is what we are going to do with OL which looks concerning based on our current list of prospects, but not sure what to do about that but wait and see.

And all of the alleged coaching deficiencies mainly look like talent deficiencies to me. I'm not saying Mullen is perfect, but I think people underestimate some of the talent deficiencies because Mullen does such a good job overall. WRs are a perfect example. Nobody moves the ball on elite defenses with a glaring deficiency like that. Not saying Mullen's play calling was perfect, but what do you want him to do when our WRs can't get separation consistently and even when they do and the QB throws a very good pass, they have drops. The only reason anybody could fool themselves into thinking otherwise that Mullen has the offense good enough that we move the ball on average Defenses even with subpar WRs.

[Really Clark?]

Our TD drive against Auburn we went pass on first down for a huge gain, pass again for a first down, run for loss of a yard, run for 5 yards, Fitz to goal line, run stuffed for no gain, false start, run for no gain on second down, TD pass on 3rd and goal. When the plays are made nobody complains that we passed on first down twice and people forget that half of the run plays were stuffed in that drive. And we also had 50% of our rushes stopped for 2 yards or less (not including the 4th and 1 2 yard run or fake punt run) in the first half. We are actually running the ball a little more this year than we did at the end of last year. So for people thinking we have gone to passing more, that's not the case.

[Liverpooldawg]

Teams are stuffing the box on first and second downs. Kinda of hard to run play action on third down when they are playing the run nearly every down and we are getting behind the chains either from a run being stuffed or incomplete pass. (Or all the false starts against Auburn). Y'all are not factoring in the RPO's that we throw from because of the defensive alignment against the run or Fitz not running because of his read in the read option plays.

This. We aren't running the ball consistantly enough to sustain drives. We eventually wind up behind the chains and we aren't passing the ball well enough to compensate. This is against good defenses. The problems I keep seeing are Fitz making the wrong reads on both passes and runs, his passing accuracy being off, and receivers who aren't getting open. Against Auburn and UGA we looked remarkably like we did against Auburn last year. Defensively it's the same old story, the secondary and especially the safeties are not making the right reads and when they do they aren't making plays.

[NCDawg]

I completely agree with this; my only thing is that I was pissed about this last year. The ball was dropped essentially following up on 2014 and continuing until we did what we had to do to close on last year's JUCO class. As far as I can tell, Mullen has finally addressed everything that is within his control, with the exception of Hevesy. And I am trying to be patient on Hevesy because I do think he can coach and we have started to get some better talent, even if we are still not signing enough bodies period. If Looney can help him recruit, that may be a good situation.



I completely agree, I just think we are doing things to get better. As I said, the cake was baked for this year well before this year started. But it looks like we finally have addressed our WR recruiting deficiencies. It looks like we are going to actually take advantage of Ole Miss being down when we actually have a lot of in state talent to recruit. The only remaining issue is what we are going to do with OL which looks concerning based on our current list of prospects, but not sure what to do about that but wait and see.

And all of the alleged coaching deficiencies mainly look like talent deficiencies to me. I'm not saying Mullen is perfect, but I think people underestimate some of the talent deficiencies because Mullen does such a good job overall. WRs are a perfect example. Nobody moves the ball on elite defenses with a glaring deficiency like that. Not saying Mullen's play calling was perfect, but what do you want him to do when our WRs can't get separation consistently and even when they do and the QB throws a very good pass, they have drops. The only reason anybody could fool themselves into thinking otherwise that Mullen has the offense good enough that we move the ball on average Defenses even with subpar WRs.

You say you are trying to be patient with Hevesy. How long do you propose to be patient? I don't see our OL being any better than it was 9 years ago, in fact it could be worse.. As far as bodies, we've signed enough OL if you look at our roster-just not good enough to play in the SEC. Pretty bad when the announcers at the Auburn game pointed out that we were weak on the OL, and that if Fitz played behind the Auburn OL, he would be really good.

[chef dixon]

We will never be able to have O lines like the "big boys." Only the elite teams can stack the line 1 through 5 so you can forget that. We best level the playing field with individual players that can have a huge impact e.g. the quarterback position (like Dak). Fitz just isn't that difference maker and is not showing any signs of becoming that. His success relies on the talent level around him. I'd love to stack the other 10 positions on the offensive side of the ball but that ain't happening here relative to some of our competition.

[Johnson85]

You say you are trying to be patient with Hevesy. How long do you propose to be patient? I don't see our OL being any better than it was 9 years ago, in fact it could be worse.. As far as bodies, we've signed enough OL if you look at our roster-just not good enough to play in the SEC. Pretty bad when the announcers at the Auburn game pointed out that we were weak on the OL, and that if Fitz played behind the Auburn OL, he would be really good.

When I say I am trying to be patient with Hevesy, I don't mean with Hevesy himself. He is what he is. I mean with Mullen's approach to Hevesy, including how he handles Hevesy's glaring weakness in recruiting. Mullen's not an idiot, so I believe Hevesy brings a lot of value to him, and I assume/hope that adding Looney is Mullen's attempt to off set Hevesy's weakness at recruiting without giving up everything else he brings to the table. And honestly, I think Hevesy is good at coaching. The first half of last year was the first time I thought our OL looked worse than its talent level, and that didn't last through the year. Most of the time, we are better than what our talent would suggest we should be; the problem is we often only have 4 legitimate SEC OL.

But to answer your question, I think the current approach gets through the 2019 signing class. It sucks, because if the current approach doesn't work, we've essentially hamstrung our program through the 2020 season. As long as we don't completely crash and burn though, we should at least be good enough that getting bailed out by a JUCO transfer would be a possibility.

[BB30]

i think many fans realized what i had long ago about Mullen. he has a system, he's going to run it week in and week out all season with very few wrinkles or adjustments. have a superior run game, a terrible passing game, and playing a team that can't defend the run? doesn't matter, we're throwing the ball just as much as normal. the wrinkles he does try to throw in are usually pretty bad (see fake punts), it's a system that works pretty well against inferior (and arguably equal) opponents but pretty badly against elite opponents. it's that last one that hits hard. it makes you realize Mullen is an 7-9 win coach, and will never be more. a generic coach with generic talent has a much better chance of beating a top team. he just doesn't have it in him to tweak things week in and out for an advantage, to get more out of less. ok, give him Alabama talent and he MAY win more. MAYBE. but.......what coach does that not apply to? he gets credit for many things he shouldn't get credit for (running an actual offense, because we suffered under Croom and Jackie for years, running a competent program, because we suffered under LT for decades, etc.).

In other words, he gets paid as and treated as a 4* coach.......but barely delivers a 3* performance. it's not like he should be run off.......but we can do better. or worse! but all the fluffing leads to some serious blue balls when he fails to deliver (again). we all managed to convince ourselves that Mullen had finally changed, and then reality set in. he's the same Mullen, always will be the same Mullen. and people are pretty tired of the same shortcomings over and over again. and poor game planning being blamed on "execution". if you can run for 4 ypc and can barely break double digits, then there's a coaching problem, not a talent problem.

Mullen's record against top teams cannot be explained by a lack of talent. It can be explained by who the head coach is.

Out of curiosity, do a lot of teams consistently beat opponents that have a sizable talent advantage no matter the scheme that they use?

[BoomBoom]

Teams are stuffing the box on first and second downs. Kinda of hard to run play action on third down when they are playing the run nearly every down and we are getting behind the chains either from a run being stuffed or incomplete pass. (Or all the false starts against Auburn). Y'all are not factoring in the RPO's that we throw from because of the defensive alignment against the run or Fitz not running because of his read in the read option plays.

so what if they are putting an extra man or two in the box if you can still run it and still can't throw it? i really do think that's what's happening, Mullen is thinking that when they add a man to the box he should throw. that's what you should do if you are a balanced team. he's seen the plays work in practice, or he wouldn't be calling them. but that's affinity bias, and we are not a balanced team. in games, it's not working. the better strategy is to run it until they prove they can stop it.

the problem is, we weren't getting behind in the chains from running it. we were getting into 3rd and long from incompletions.

http://www.espn.com/college-football...meId=400933874

1st series:
run for 6 yards, 2 incompletions, punt.

2nd series:
2 passes, 2 runs for a 1st down
run for 7 yards, run for 2 yards, penalty, penalty, incompletion, FG.

3rd series:
incompletion, penalty for 1st down
run for 0 yards, incompletion, pass for 11 yards for 1st down
run for 5 yards, run for 3 yards, pass for 0 yards, punt

4th series:
incompletion, incompletion, incompletion, punt

5th series, 21 to 3 already:. 2 runs for 6 yards, 3rd and 4, incompletion, punt.

6th series:
pass for 6 yards, run for 5, 1st down
run for 3 yards, run for -1 yards, incompletion, punt. again, 4 down territory, but Mullen played it safe.

7th series:
pass for 45 yards, 1st down
pass for 11 yards, 1st down
run for -1 yards, run for 5 yards, 1st down? must be a penalty missing from the play by play.
1st and goal at the 1, run for zero, false start, run for 0, pass for TD

8th series (2nd half):
run for 8 yards, run for 8 yards, 1st down
run for -3, incompletion, false start, run for 9, punt

9th series:
run for 3, pass for 4, interception

10th series:
false start, pass for 32, 1st down
run for 8, run for 3, 1st down
run for 3, pass for 5, run for 10, 1st down
incompletion, run for zero, incompletion, false start (coming out of a TO), going for it on 4th and 15 down only 18 (when we won't try to run it for 4 downs), incompletion, turnover on downs

11th series:
sacked (passing play), run for 7, run for 4, incompletion on 4th down

12th series:
run for 5, run for 3, run for 2, 1st down
run for 10, 1st down
run for 5, run for 4, incompletion, run for 3, 1st down
pass for 28, 1st down
run for 3, incompletion, incompletion, incompletion.

the only time running the ball put us in third and long, ALL NIGHT, was the 6th series.

bottom line, 1st 4 possessions, we lost one because of penalties, one because we couldn't convert 3rd and 2 (on a pass play in 4 down territory), and 2 from throwing when we should have been RTGDF. and then we were in a hole. again. yes, at some point the box will get so stacked that you have to throw the ball. but that's not what happened.

[gravedigger]

so what if they are putting an extra man or two in the box if you can still run it and still can't throw it? i really do think that's what's happening, Mullen is thinking that when they add a man to the box he should throw. that's what you should do if you are a balanced team. he's seen the plays work in practice, or he wouldn't be calling them. but that's affinity bias, and we are not a balanced team. in games, it's not working. the better strategy is to run it until they prove they can stop it.

the problem is, we weren't getting behind in the chains from running it. we were getting into 3rd and long from incompletions.

http://www.espn.com/college-football...meId=400933874

1st series:
run for 6 yards, 2 incompletions, punt.

2nd series:
2 passes, 2 runs for a 1st down
run for 7 yards, run for 2 yards, penalty, penalty, incompletion, FG.

3rd series:
incompletion, penalty for 1st down
run for 0 yards, incompletion, pass for 11 yards for 1st down
run for 5 yards, run for 3 yards, pass for 0 yards, punt

4th series:
incompletion, incompletion, incompletion, punt

5th series, 21 to 3 already:. 2 runs for 6 yards, 3rd and 4, incompletion, punt.

6th series:
pass for 6 yards, run for 5, 1st down
run for 3 yards, run for -1 yards, incompletion, punt. again, 4 down territory, but Mullen played it safe.

7th series:
pass for 45 yards, 1st down
pass for 11 yards, 1st down
run for -1 yards, run for 5 yards, 1st down? must be a penalty missing from the play by play.
1st and goal at the 1, run for zero, false start, run for 0, pass for TD

8th series (2nd half):
run for 8 yards, run for 8 yards, 1st down
run for -3, incompletion, false start, run for 9, punt

9th series:
run for 3, pass for 4, interception

10th series:
false start, pass for 32, 1st down
run for 8, run for 3, 1st down
run for 3, pass for 5, run for 10, 1st down
incompletion, run for zero, incompletion, false start (coming out of a TO), going for it on 4th and 15 down only 18 (when we won't try to run it for 4 downs), incompletion, turnover on downs

11th series:
sacked (passing play), run for 7, run for 4, incompletion on 4th down

12th series:
run for 5, run for 3, run for 2, 1st down
run for 10, 1st down
run for 5, run for 4, incompletion, run for 3, 1st down
pass for 28, 1st down
run for 3, incompletion, incompletion, incompletion.

the only time running the ball put us in third and long, ALL NIGHT, was the 6th series.

bottom line, 1st 4 possessions, we lost one because of penalties, one because we couldn't convert 3rd and 2 (on a pass play in 4 down territory), and 2 from throwing when we should have been RTGDF. and then we were in a hole. again. yes, at some point the box will get so stacked that you have to throw the ball. but that's not what happened.

Disagree. He should take the approach on each play in the first quarter to think like his opponent, ( Other teams DC ) and do the opposite with the exception of 2nd and extremely short or third and extremely long. You are getting the first down in one and playing for field position in the other.

He is planning games too rigidly and the opponent is able to predict it. He needs a schizophrenic OC for the first quarter.

[TUSK]

I agree with you in terms of Georgia. I never felt like we were running effectively until the fourth quarter when it didn't matter. I thought we found much better success against Auburn, but we wouldn't commit to it. There were drives in the first half where we would run for 6 yards on first down and then throw two incomplete passes and I believe I remember at least one drive where we just came out and threw three incomplete passes.

That's what I saw too, buddy... A lot of the yards rushing vs AU and (especially) UGA were after the game was "over"...

Y'all are gonna have a tough time if ya have to rely too much on a run game vs Defenses like that... fortunately, there aren't many of them out there...

[Gutter Cobreh]

I apologize for the bumping of an old thread, but some of you on the "Fire Moorhead" bandwagon - please go through this thread and re-read it.

Same general complaints and comments that are currently being discussed now; the only difference is that it was a year ago with the coach some of you revere and whom think would have us undefeated right now. The same issues we had last year, we still have - which is a one-dimensional offense - using a one-dimensional QB - throwing to sub-par group of WRs.

Blame the current regime if you'd like, but I'll continue to say that I'd rather have our current staff. They're getting the same results this year as what our last coaching staff was getting in year 8-9. The only difference is we, the fans, conjured up in our hearts that we should have been better this year and that it was all going to come together.