Rece Davis Tweet

[ShotgunDawg]

I have mixed emotions about this tweet:



- On one hand, I think Mullen's staff overall does a fine job, &, with OM's current issues, we should lock them up to huge money. I've made my feelings heard on this in multiple threads.

- On the other hand, I'm extremely tired of being told that MSU is "less". I hate listening to Bo Bounds talk about it, twitter mention it, etc. It perpetuates a narrative that insinuates something different than reality. MSU is a consistent top 25 recruiter, while many programs who don't have the narrative of being "less" are much worse than that. I'm just tired of hearing about how we are "less" & how our coach could/should leave all the time. It's a coversation that brings down the moral of state & I'm not sure why media people in our state continue to talk about it. Why not pump up a place like MSU & initiate a new narrative? How does OM, which has about the same resources as us, typically doesn't have to fight this narrative?

- With situations like our OL recruiting, FG kicking, & the narrative that Mullen does more with less, it's amazing to me how much "winning" Mullen leaves on the table. The narrative is frustrating because it basically blames MSU for all of Mullen's shortcomings while giving him credit for doing more with less whenever he wins. MSU is caught in the middle of narrative in which it never gets any credit. It almost seems like the only way MSU will ever receive credit is if Mullen leaves & the next coach wins. I prefer winning over getting credit, but the narrative is old & demoralizing.

[Dawgtini]

5/10 - not enough TSUN in tweet or comment.

[CadaverDawg]

I agree Shotgun. Unfortunately the flamboyant always get more attention and research than those like MSU that recruit at a top 25 level and average 7-8+ wins, but do so in a quiet business like way.

[ShotgunDawg]

MSU has to be one of the best jobs in America.

It's one of, what has to be only a few jobs in America, where you can recruit enough talent to be a consistent top 25 team, but get no blame for losing due to the narrative/public perception of the school.

[smootness]

I have mixed emotions about this tweet:



- On one hand, I think Mullen's staff overall does a fine job, &, with OM's current issues, we should lock them up to huge money. I've made my feelings heard on this in multiple threads.

- On the other hand, I'm extremely tired of being told that MSU is "less". I hate listening to Bo Bounds talk about it, twitter mention it, etc. It perpetuates a narrative that insinuates something different than reality. MSU is a consistent top 25 recruiter, while many programs who don't have the narrative of being "less" are much worse than that. I'm just tired of hearing about how we are "less" & how our coach could/should leave all the time. It's a coversation that brings down the moral of state & I'm not sure why media people in our state continue to talk about it. Why not pump up a place like MSU & initiate a new narrative? How does OM, which has about the same resources as us, typically doesn't have to fight this narrative?

- With situations like our OL recruiting, FG kicking, & the narrative that Mullen does more with less, it's amazing to me how much "winning" Mullen leaves on the table. The narrative is frustrating because it basically blames MSU for all of Mullen's shortcomings while giving him credit for doing more with less whenever he wins. MSU is caught in the middle of narrative in which it never gets any credit. It almost seems like the only way MSU will ever receive credit is if Mullen leaves & the next coach wins. I prefer winning over getting credit, but the narrative is old & demoralizing.

So one of the biggest national names in CFB says our coach is knocking on the door of the top 5 in the country, and says that a large part of the reason is because he has been able to elevate a program that has historically not been very good (which is an entirely correct statement), and now we're upset? Because we think he should be doing even better?

It takes time to build a program. A lot of time. Mullen is in the process of doing it, and if you want to argue that Sherrill started it to some degree, that's fine, I'm not going to argue with that. But Mullen is doing it. That benefits Mississippi State in the long run. He has done a great job here. There are real shortcomings and disadvantages at State, that is simply a fact. I don't know why we're hesitant to acknowledge that.

Mississippi State is not going to get credit for creating its own success until multiple coaches come in here and win, you're right. And why wouldn't that be the case? We have a poor history. Then Sherrill came in, was a little up and down but then starting building something, then it completely crashed and burned. Then Croom came in and won nothing. Then Mullen came in and he is now building something. Why would someone from the national media look at that situation and think, 'Well, it's Mississippi State, of course Mullen has been able to have success'?

I just don't know why we get so defensive over stuff like this. It is a very positive tweet for us...because Mullen is currently our coach.

[smootness]

I agree Shotgun. Unfortunately the flamboyant always get more attention and research than those like MSU that recruit at a top 25 level and average 7-8+ wins, but do so in a quiet business like way.

When have we ever averaged 7-8+ wins? And when have we even been a consistent top 25 recruiter? Even Mullen hasn't quite won 7/year at this point.

[ShotgunDawg]

So one of the biggest national names in CFB says our coach is knocking on the door of the top 5 in the country, and says that a large part of the reason is because he has been able to elevate a program that has historically not been very good (which is an entirely correct statement), and now we're upset? Because we think he should be doing even better?

It takes time to build a program. A lot of time. Mullen is in the process of doing it, and if you want to argue that Sherrill started it to some degree, that's fine, I'm not going to argue with that. But Mullen is doing it. That benefits Mississippi State in the long run. He has done a great job here. There are real shortcomings and disadvantages at State, that is simply a fact. I don't know why we're hesitant to acknowledge that.

Mississippi State is not going to get credit for creating its own success until multiple coaches come in here and win, you're right. And why wouldn't that be the case? We have a poor history. Then Sherrill came in, was a little up and down but then starting building something, then it completely crashed and burned. Then Croom came in and won nothing. Then Mullen came in and he is now building something. Why would someone from the national media look at that situation and think, 'Well, it's Mississippi State, of course Mullen has been able to have success'?

I just don't know why we get so defensive over stuff like this. It is a very positive tweet for us...because Mullen is currently our coach.

I agree with everything you just said. Great post.

But, like I said, I have mixed feeling about the post.

[BrunswickDawg]

When have we ever averaged 7-8+ wins? And when have we even been a consistent top 25 recruiter? Even Mullen hasn't quite won 7/year at this point.

Well, if you go by the "bowl games don't count", he hasn't (6.125). If you count bowls, he is at 7.625 - 7-8 wins a season

[Tbonewannabe]

So one of the biggest national names in CFB says our coach is knocking on the door of the top 5 in the country, and says that a large part of the reason is because he has been able to elevate a program that has historically not been very good (which is an entirely correct statement), and now we're upset? Because we think he should be doing even better?

It takes time to build a program. A lot of time. Mullen is in the process of doing it, and if you want to argue that Sherrill started it to some degree, that's fine, I'm not going to argue with that. But Mullen is doing it. That benefits Mississippi State in the long run. He has done a great job here. There are real shortcomings and disadvantages at State, that is simply a fact. I don't know why we're hesitant to acknowledge that.

Mississippi State is not going to get credit for creating its own success until multiple coaches come in here and win, you're right. And why wouldn't that be the case? We have a poor history. Then Sherrill came in, was a little up and down but then starting building something, then it completely crashed and burned. Then Croom came in and won nothing. Then Mullen came in and he is now building something. Why would someone from the national media look at that situation and think, 'Well, it's Mississippi State, of course Mullen has been able to have success'?

I just don't know why we get so defensive over stuff like this. It is a very positive tweet for us...because Mullen is currently our coach.

Also Snyder and Patterson are in the same situation as Mullen only they have built their programs longer. MSU is a better job than either KSU or TCU. We have had sporadic success through out our history. Mullen is building a foundation of consistency. It took Bobby Bowden a while to build FSU into where they are now. It took him a long time to finally win a National Title and now Jimbo has them as a top 5-10 program every year along with another National Title. Clemson has also been building toward what they have now for quite a while. If you want it quick then get Hugh Freeze. He was able to get UNM into a Peach Bowl and Sugar Bowl after only a couple of years of their program being in the shitter.

That is your 2 choices: slow build with Mullen or quick with Freeze. We see what going quick does for your program. Most corrupt program in college football history.

[Delmar]

Well, if you go by the "bowl games don't count", he hasn't (6.125). If you count bowls, he is at 7.625 - 7-8 wins a season

So this math seems very unlikely unless we've been playing in more than one bowl game per year.

[BrunswickDawg]

Well, if you go by the "bowl games don't count", he hasn't (6.125). If you count bowls, he is at 7.625 - 7-8 wins a season

So this math seems very unlikely unless we've been playing in more than one bowl game per year.

Yeah, sorry - 7.625 per season with Bowls; 7 if you don't count bowls.

So, he is winning on average, between 7-8 games a season if you count bowls, but dead on 7 if you don't.

[smootness]

Yeah, sorry - 7.625 per season with Bowls; 7 if you don't count bowls.

So, he is winning on average, between 7-8 games a season if you count bowls, but dead on 7 if you don't.

Yes, I am dumb. I was counting 2017 as a season with 0 wins.

But this only helps further my point. Mullen is winning 7-8 games a year. When else in our history has a coach done that? If no one, then shouldn't Mullen get credit for that?

[1bigdawg]

It took Bowden and Paterno a long time to make FSU and PSU relevant. We have advantages they did not which could make it easier at MSY. We are part of a P5 conference and have much more resources compared to the rest of college football than they did at this point in their careers (compared to Mullen).

Now, Mullen has a unique opportunity. UNM is having a breakdown just as some very talented athletes are emerging from Mississippi high schools. If we take advantage of this we can move to the next level and possible stay there.

[HSVDawg]

When have we ever averaged 7-8+ wins? And when have we even been a consistent top 25 recruiter? Even Mullen hasn't quite won 7/year at this point.

Mullen has 61 wins in 8 seasons. 7.6 wins per year. This isn't RP math, bowl games do count.

You are correct about our recruiting though. The 2017 was barely inside the top 25 on signing day, but in actuality due to all the non qualifiers we are now way outside of that threshold. 2016 class was horrible. 2015 class was also barely inside the Top 25. Saying we are a "consistent Top 25 recruiter" doesn't mean anything anyways even if it were true. People who have studied such things in far more detail than myself have proven that the most applicable threshold is Top 15 for elite teams. Signing four classes ranked in the Top 20-25 and four classes in the Top 35-40 won't yield drastically different results if any. Class ranking accuracy goes way way down after the Top 15.

[Tbonewannabe]

Yes, I am dumb. I was counting 2017 as a season with 0 wins.

But this only helps further my point. Mullen is winning 7-8 games a year. When else in our history has a coach done that? If no one, then shouldn't Mullen get credit for that?

Whether Mullen ever wins big consistently or not, he is laying a foundation of bowl games which we have never had before. There aren't too many other teams in the SEC that have went to as many bowl games in a row as us and went to a "BCS" level bowl. I have even seen people mentioning that Fitz will probably get to NY for the Heisman ceremony before he leaves MSU. Mullen and now Dak are making a path for future players and coaches to follow.

[BHildreth3]

Watch out for Texas A&M or Notre Dame this year. I want them to win - b/c Mullen would take those 2 jobs. It would suck if we lose Mullen the year that Freeze gets hammered.

[Tbonewannabe]

Mullen has 61 wins in 8 seasons. 7.6 wins per year. This isn't RP math, bowl games do count.

You are correct about our recruiting though. The 2017 was barely inside the top 25 on signing day, but in actuality due to all the non qualifiers we are now way outside of that threshold. 2016 class was horrible. 2015 class was also barely inside the Top 25. Saying we are a "consistent Top 25 recruiter" doesn't mean anything anyways even if it were true. People who have studied such things in far more detail than myself have proven that the most applicable threshold is Top 15 for elite teams. Signing four classes ranked in the Top 20-25 and four classes in the Top 35-40 won't yield drastically different results if any. Class ranking accuracy goes way way down after the Top 15.

We also had the other program in state that was paying guys not to visit or just buying players out from under us during a dead period when Mullen couldn't do anything about it. It wasn't that we struck out on CJ Johnson, it was the fact that we had him locked in so the coaches weren't going to be able to pull their #2 guy. Even if we are keeping guys "warm", you aren't going to get guys to get the program inside the top 25 when your best players are bought at the last minute.

Everything UNM did was not only to get them a top 5 - 10 recruiting class but to also hurt MSU's recruiting classes. They were trying to raise their program up while sinking ours. Mullen hasn't been on a level playing field for quite a while.

[BB30]

It took Bowden and Paterno a long time to make FSU and PSU relevant. We have advantages they did not which could make it easier at MSY. We are part of a P5 conference and have much more resources compared to the rest of college football than they did at this point in their careers (compared to Mullen).

Now, Mullen has a unique opportunity. UNM is having a breakdown just as some very talented athletes are emerging from Mississippi high schools. If we take advantage of this we can move to the next level and possible stay there.

Eh I don't know about having more advantages than FSU or PSU... Their Alumni base is quite a bit larger. FSU is in a hotbed for recruiting.. I think a lot of our fans struggle with the fact that in this case for now at least perception is close to reality. We really haven't ever been able to have continued success on the football field so Mullen does deserve a ton of credit for the success we have had. Combine what he has done with the popularity of the SEC and the new money and it is a perfect storm. Hopefully we can catch lightening in a bottle and capitalize on our situation now.

[ShotgunDawg]

Watch out for Texas A&M or Notre Dame this year. I want them to win - b/c Mullen would take those 2 jobs. It would suck if we lose Mullen the year that Freeze gets hammered.

A&M will court & probably get Chip Kelly. With the talent available in TX, Kelly would be a stud at A&M.

Notre Dame would be a concern, but they would have to pay more than they currently do. For the Notre Dame job, watch how PJ Fleck does at Minnesota this year. I could see him being a good fit at Notre Dame because I think his personality would up their recruiting profile nationally.

The problem with Mullen is that, while he is an exceptional coach, it's difficult for most ADs to sell a 6-8 win coach from MSU as their programs savior & then pay that 6-8 win coach 4 mil +.

[ShotgunDawg]

We really haven't ever been able to have continued success on the football field so Mullen does deserve a ton of credit for the success we have had. .

How much of our lack of continued success has to do with us continually going on probation throughout our history.

If we can find a way to stay off probation for the next 10 years, my guess is that we can continue to build this.

Go back on probation though, & we are starting back at zero