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Thread: Spieth ties Tiger's record for most wins at age 23. in FINE fashion. holes out from

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Poster View Post
    Jack is the best golfer in history for a career, Tiger had the most dominant decade in golf. They are 1 and 2

    Good to see this younger generation have some stones and play with excitement- something the Tour sadly missed when Tiger came around.
    Comparing their major careers.

    From 1962 (when Jack turned pro and won his first major) until 1986 (his last major win), Jack finished in the Top 10 65 out of 104 majors. Of those 65, he finished in the Top 3 44 times. He only missed 6 cuts and had 1 WD.

    From 1997 (Tiger's first year to win a major) until 2009 (his last year to win a major), Tiger finished in the Top 10 29 out of 48 majors. Of those 49, he finished in the Top 3 22 times. He only missed 1 cut and DNP in 2 events (both in 2008).

    Tiger was great, no doubt, but Jack is the greatest golfer of all time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Rabbit Dawg View Post
    Comparing their major careers.

    From 1962 (when Jack turned pro and won his first major) until 1986 (his last major win), Jack finished in the Top 10 65 out of 104 majors. Of those 65, he finished in the Top 3 44 times. He only missed 6 cuts and had 1 WD.

    From 1997 (Tiger's first year to win a major) until 2009 (his last year to win a major), Tiger finished in the Top 10 29 out of 48 majors. Of those 49, he finished in the Top 3 22 times. He only missed 1 cut and DNP in 2 events (both in 2008).

    Tiger was great, no doubt, but Jack is the greatest golfer of all time.
    Jack played vs 8 dudes worth a shit so having a billion top 10's vs 8 guys isn't as impressive as you think it is.

  3. #23
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    Jack played vs 8 dudes worth a shit so having a billion top 10's vs 8 guys isn't as impressive as you think it is.
    Nicklaus' % is barely better anyway.

    And Tiger's win % is better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Rabbit Dawg View Post
    Comparing their major careers.

    From 1962 (when Jack turned pro and won his first major) until 1986 (his last major win), Jack finished in the Top 10 65 out of 104 majors. Of those 65, he finished in the Top 3 44 times. He only missed 6 cuts and had 1 WD.

    From 1997 (Tiger's first year to win a major) until 2009 (his last year to win a major), Tiger finished in the Top 10 29 out of 48 majors. Of those 49, he finished in the Top 3 22 times. He only missed 1 cut and DNP in 2 events (both in 2008).

    Tiger was great, no doubt, but Jack is the greatest golfer of all time.
    those overall percentages look pretty much the same regarding top 10's and top 3's. Jack definitely has the advantage in the longevity column. Would like to compare any 10 year stretch from Jack to Tiger's 10 year run in terms of overall wins. that would be interesting to look at as well.

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    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Also, Tiger has won a quarter of the tournaments he's ever played. That is one of the most ridiculous numbers in sports history.

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    As far as total tourney wins in a 10-12 year period, I don't think anybody comes close to Tiger. He just went on a sick Mike Tyson style decade of dominance never seen on the PGA. I don't think you can underscore Jack's competition though. there were some great players back then but I don't think anyone can argue that in today's game, there's just a hell of a lot more of them which does make high winning percentages more difficult .

  7. #27
    Senior Member Gutter Cobreh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Tiger is the GOAT.

    But Elin didn't break him. He won 8 times in 2012-2013 and was #1 in the world again after that. It's the back, it's just never going to be the same. His PEDs use finally caught up to him, and it looks like it's too much for his back to handle.

    It really sucks, as there's literally nothing in sports better than watching Tiger when he's on his game. But yeah, he seems to be done.

    But if anyone in any sport ever challenges the level Tiger was at in 2000-01, I will be shocked.
    FIFY...

    If any of you ever find some spare change and time, please read Hank Haney's "The Big Miss". He doesn't mention the PEDs usage (we all know Tiger was on the juice), but he does talk about his infatuation with military style training and how that was counterproductive to playing golf.

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    Tiger's daddy would have him playing like he's supposed to. It's up to Tiger to find those words that he'd tell him to get him back right and I just don't see Tiger being able to overcome his own demons. I am not sold it is his back. It's all in his head. If he gets his head right his back will suddenly become much better overnight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    I am a huge Griffey fan, but this is some serious hyperbole. Griffey's 96-97 is certainly up there, but Mike Trout is currently playing at a level Griffey never did. Bonds in the early 2000's was clearly better, Ruth was better, Ted Williams, Mays. Griffey was phenomenal, but that is just an insane statement.
    My point was that as an overall player he was probably the best ever when he was in his prime. All the players you mentioned may have been better offensively but are / were not as good defensively and on the basepaths.

    I will say that upon further review Mays is probably above him due to longevity. He is the Nicklaus to Griffey's Woods as far as 5-tool players go.
    Last edited by HSVDawg; 06-27-2017 at 03:25 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh View Post
    FIFY...

    If any of you ever find some spare change and time, please read Hank Haney's "The Big Miss". He doesn't mention the PEDs usage (we all know Tiger was on the juice), but he does talk about his infatuation with military style training and how that was counterproductive to playing golf.
    Of the two of those, I think I'd listen to Tiger Woods on what is conducive to playing golf.

  11. #31
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    Tiger's daddy would have him playing like he's supposed to. It's up to Tiger to find those words that he'd tell him to get him back right and I just don't see Tiger being able to overcome his own demons. I am not sold it is his back. It's all in his head. If he gets his head right his back will suddenly become much better overnight.
    I don't think so. Again, he was back to winning in bulk and at #1 in the world AFTER the whole Elin thing.

    It really is his back, and watching his swing, especially from his 20s, makes it seem about right he would have back issues. They are debilitating for golf.

  12. #32
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSVDawg View Post
    My point was that as an overall player he was probably the best ever when he was in his prime. All the players you mentioned may have been better offensively but are / were not as good defensively and on the basepaths.

    I will say that upon further review Mays is probably above him due to longevity. He is the Nicklaus to Griffey's Woods as far as 5-tool players go.
    Mays had a higher peak, too. Griffey was amazing and one of my 3 or 4 favorites ever, but even his peak wasn't quite as good as some of the other all-time greats.

    His defense until '97 was extremely good, but he still wasn't Andruw out there. Mays was as good defensively and better offensively.

  13. #33
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    All baseball players past and present are Babe Ruth's biatch.

  14. #34
    Senior Member louisvilledawg's Avatar
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    Don't know how i missed a thread on golf.

    I don't think he'll ever be back competing on the pga tour again, save for him being a tournament ornament to boost ratings.

    I also agree with Dawg61 on that he hasn't been able to overcome his demons. The loss of his dad utterly devastated him (with good reason.) Definitely think he would benefit from a therapy session like goodwill hunting.

    I do think some of it is physical, and some of it is pride because he could still beat half or more of the field by toning his swing down and playing conservative golf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by louisvilledawg View Post
    I do think some of it is physical, and some of it is pride because he could still beat half or more of the field by toning his swing down and playing conservative golf.
    This is exactly why I don't believe he has a career ending back injury or we would see him attempting to develop a 3/4 swing or something less stressful on his lower back if he knew his back was totally ****ed beyond all repair. The fact he hasn't attempted to go to a much shorter swing is enough proof to me that Tiger hasn't conceded he must to save his career. If the choices are go to a much shorter less violent swing or never play pro golf again I don't think Tiger would hesitate to adapt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bully13 View Post
    You could not be more wrong. NOBODY, not Jr or even Hank Aaron deserves to be mentioned in the same paragraph as Babe Ruth.

    The only way to fairly compare today's players with yesterday's is to see how much separation they created between their contemporaries. NOBODY came close to creating such wide gaps in the statistics of their respective eras than George Herman Ruth.

    He single handily brought baseball into a new era and some would even argue he saved the game all by himself. He was physically unique, possessed of a rare combination of lightning reflexes, superb judgment and timing, and excellent eyesight.

    He started his career as a pitcher with the Boston Red Sox and had a great run from 1914 thru 1918, went 78-40, including leading the league in 1916 with 1.75 era, 9 shutouts, and a 23-12 record. he was 3-0 in world series competition with a .87 era for 31 innings and pitched 29 2/3 scoreless innings , a world series record held until broken by Whitey Ford in 1961. in 1918 he alternated between pitching and the outfield and led the league with 11 HR's and a .555 slugging average.

    He went on to either lead or tie for the lead in dingers 12 times. what is so amazing is when you look at how many the runner ups had during that streak.

    1919--Ruth had 29, runner up with 10
    1920--Ruth had 54, runner up had 19
    1921--Ruth had 59, runner up had 24
    1922--injury year with only 406 at bats, had 35 while Hornsby had 42 with 623 at bats
    1923--Ruth had 41---runner up with 29
    1924--Ruth had 46---runner up with 25
    1925--don't think he played that year
    1926--Ruth 47--r/u 19
    1927--Ruth 60---r/u Gehrig with 47 and 3rd place 30
    1928--Ruth 54--r/u 31
    1929--Ruth 46---r/u 43

    to give you an idea of this separation, consider years like 1921 when ONE out of EVERY 8 home runs hit in the American League, ONE of those was hit by Babe Ruth.

    His lifetime batting avg is .342 and slugging avg is .690 which is 56 points higher than runner up Ted Williams.

    During an 8 year run, he led the league in walks 7 of those years despite having Lou Gehrig hitting behind him every time. Leaving little doubt he was the most feared man to every step into a batter's box.

    the only thing he was not dominant in was speed, but despite that, he was always up there in the top 5 in triples. showing that when he wasn't knocking it out of the park, he was still knocking the ever loving shit off the cover of the ball when contact was made.

    one of the stats you didn't see back then was outfielder's throwing out runners. when you look at the newspaper clippings, the writers were always talking about his cannon of an arm and how he would throw out runners routinely trying to stretch their long singles into doubles. he had a CANNON of an arm from right field. opposing hitters learned quickly throughout his career to be careful of Ruth's arm in right field.

    NOBODY is in the same category with Babe Ruth and I doubt anybody ever will.
    You didn't need to type 10 paragraphs to show that Ruth is in the pantheon above Griffey. He is the greatest hitter of all time. But again, my point wasn't about who was the greatest individual player in a specific category, its about who the greatest all-around player was and when. Ruth wasn't the athlete that Mays and Griffey were. He just wasn't. He could hit for average, power, and pitch, but couldn't run and wasn't known for defense either. If I had to pick one player all-time to plug into my 1 thru 9 lineup, it would be Ruth. If I had to pick one player all time to clone 8 times and put 9 of them in my lineup, I'm picking Mays or pre-hamstring collapse Griffey. That's the best way I can describe it.
    Last edited by HSVDawg; 06-27-2017 at 05:14 PM.

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    Ruth did pitch though and KGjr never did so I would take 9 Ruth's and out pitch your 9 KGjr's all day every day. Barry Bonds is the best hitter ever btw. Don't @ me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    Ruth did pitch though and KGjr never did so I would take 9 Ruth's and out pitch your 9 KGjr's all day every day. Barry Bonds is the best hitter ever btw. Don't @ me
    Ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSVDawg View Post
    Ok.
    rep given +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    Ruth did pitch though and KGjr never did so I would take 9 Ruth's and out pitch your 9 KGjr's all day every day. Barry Bonds is the best hitter ever btw. Don't @ me
    Barry bonds is NOT the best hitter ever. he couldn't hold Ruth's Jock.

    by the way, Jr is one of my favorites of all time. loved his attitude and demeanor along with his love of the game and his natural ability. PHD'S gave Bonds the most powerful forearms and wrist action I've ever seen in the game.

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