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Thread: Is Mullen/MSU football taking another step?

  1. #61
    Senior Member QuadrupleOption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg View Post
    Don't put words in my mouth. Winning 8 games a year is a huge improvement. No one is talking about consistently competing for a national championship at State in football. But I don't think it's wrong to want to at least have a legitimate shot of making it to Atlanta once every 5-8 years, either. I'm not bitching about Mullen, I'm bitching about the lazy recruiting practices across the entire staff. Mullen seems to be taking a few steps to rectify that, but the biggest culprits are on his side of the football and we haven't seen any serious staff changes over there. We're still bringing a popgun to a full on firefight.
    We had a legitimate chance at Atlanta in 2014. Dak's two interceptions in Bama territory and JRob's ill-advised dance in the end zone for a safety squashed it, but we were very very close. Dan's going into Year 9 so you should be happy.

    Recruiting could always be better but unless you're landing the #1 class in the country every year that will always be true. Building a program takes time. We are building a program here.

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    Just gonna respond to everything from this thread in 1 post:

    1) We don't average 8 wins/year. We average 7 regular season wins per season in the Mullen-Era. Which is still good by old State standards. The elevation our program received from Jackie plus the conglomerate the SEC has become has helped elevate what's possible for our university. The time has passed for us to compare present day MSU football to the 50's-90's State football. The SEC has elevated us past the La Tech's and Tulane's of the world- schools that we were completely on par with until the new millennium.

    2) John Hevesy is a dick and he cusses even more than I do. That turns some coaches off. To each his own. But Hevesy is a good OL coach. Our guys may not have the talent they need- but they are coached up

    3) John Hevesy is not a good recruiter. That's why we hired a new TE coach. We want him to close some deals moving forward that we have lost in past seasons.

    4) Getting another top notch QB is great for the program. However- you have to give them the pieces around them to be successful or its wasted. Ask Kevin Fant.

    5) Good teams are able to run vs other good teams. We have less than 100 yards total vs LSU the last 2 seasons- yet they gave up 117 yards per game last year. Auburn gave up 132 yards per game- we only had 103 vs them on 33 carries. We have lacked talent on the OL.

  3. #63
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    If the reason we average more wins now than 10 years ago is thanks to the SEC what's Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Missouri, USCe, Arkansas's problem? Shouldn't they be averaging more wins too? They aren't.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Poster View Post
    Just gonna respond to everything from this thread in 1 post:

    1) We don't average 8 wins/year. We average 7 regular season wins per season in the Mullen-Era. Which is still good by old State standards. The elevation our program received from Jackie plus the conglomerate the SEC has become has helped elevate what's possible for our university. The time has passed for us to compare present day MSU football to the 50's-90's State football. The SEC has elevated us past the La Tech's and Tulane's of the world- schools that we were completely on par with until the new millennium.

    2) John Hevesy is a dick and he cusses even more than I do. That turns some coaches off. To each his own. But Hevesy is a good OL coach. Our guys may not have the talent they need- but they are coached up

    3) John Hevesy is not a good recruiter. That's why we hired a new TE coach. We want him to close some deals moving forward that we have lost in past seasons.

    4) Getting another top notch QB is great for the program. However- you have to give them the pieces around them to be successful or its wasted. Ask Kevin Fant.

    5) Good teams are able to run vs other good teams. We have less than 100 yards total vs LSU the last 2 seasons- yet they gave up 117 yards per game last year. Auburn gave up 132 yards per game- we only had 103 vs them on 33 carries. We have lacked talent on the OL.
    Come on Random, Mullen deserves a TON of credit. As you said given our history, 7 wins a year is stellar. Most of our history we were begging for just ONE 7 win season. We may leap from that to expecting more every year pretty quick, but national and regional perception changes much more slowly. When it comes to program building that is what matters. We ain't there yet, but for the first time in my lifetime it's starting to actually change.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    If the reason we average more wins now than 10 years ago is thanks to the SEC what's Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Missouri, USCe, Arkansas's problem? Shouldn't they be averaging more wins too? They aren't.
    They do

    It's much more rare an SEC team loses to a non-P5 these days. However, a by-product of elevating the lower programs of the SEC has caused more losses to the old upper-tier big 6. Has also made recruiting tougher for them as well.

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    Who said Mullen doesn't get any credit? He absolutely gets some credit for stabilizing the program- something Jackie couldn't do

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    How did we get to the point of being able to sign really good QBs and Linebackers? Hell we put some in the NFL. Mullen put Tebow-Smith and Now Dak in the Pros and all they talk about is how Mullen is a QB guru. We have some really good LBs. For us to recruit OL we have to Put more than Gabe Jackson in the Pros.

    When you walk in a Ol's home you have to be able to show them why they need to come to MSU. it needs to be a fast track to playing on Sunday's.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Bubb Rubb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Poster View Post
    Just gonna respond to everything from this thread in 1 post:


    5) Good teams are able to run vs other good teams. We have less than 100 yards total vs LSU the last 2 seasons- yet they gave up 117 yards per game last year. Auburn gave up 132 yards per game- we only had 103 vs them on 33 carries. We have lacked talent on the OL.

    You are a coach. Um, sorry, your buddy coach34 is a coach, so surely he's taught you enough that you know it isn't this simple. At the time we played LSU and Auburn, we were extremely one dimensional on offense. Fitz was shaky and hadn't settled in. We weren't throwing the ball especially well. Yes, our OL talent was lacking....but you don't just line up and run the ball against those teams, you have to do other things to open up the run...especially with our OL struggling the way it was. Those are things were weren't able to do against LSU and Auburn. Especially Auburn. It's just not as simple as to say, we couldn't run the ball because the OL sucked. If teams have a solid defense and load the box, it really doesn't matter how good your OL is. You gotta be able to do some other things to open it up.

    ETA: Trying to run Holloway on interior zone reads and off tackle didn't help matters either. I wish we had gone with Aeris a lot sooner. But my point still remains....you can't be one dimensional and expect to run the ball on anyone in the SEC (except Arkansas and Ole Miss).
    Last edited by Bubb Rubb; 05-25-2017 at 09:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb View Post
    You are a coach. Um, sorry, your buddy coach34 is a coach, so surely he's taught you enough that you know it isn't this simple. At the time we played LSU and Auburn, we were extremely one dimensional on offense. Fitz was shaky and hadn't settled in. We weren't throwing the ball especially well. Yes, our OL talent was lacking....but you don't just line up and run the ball against those teams, you have to do other things to open up the run...especially with our OL struggling the way it was. Those are things were weren't able to do against LSU and Auburn. Especially Auburn. It's just not as simple as to say, we couldn't run the ball because the OL sucked. If teams have a solid defense and load the box, it really doesn't matter how good your OL is. You gotta be able to do some other things to open it up.

    ETA: Trying to run Holloway on interior zone reads and off tackle didn't help matters either. I wish we had gone with Aeris a lot sooner. But my point still remains....you can't be one dimensional and expect to run the ball on anyone in the SEC (except Arkansas and Ole Miss).
    2015 we had Dak. Couldn't run against anyone, including a horrible AU team.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb View Post
    It's just not as simple as to say, we couldn't run the ball because the OL sucked. If teams have a solid defense and load the box, it really doesn't matter how good your OL is. You gotta be able to do some other things to open it up.
    So you are putting the blame on Mullen?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Poster View Post
    Who said Mullen doesn't get any credit? He absolutely gets some credit for stabilizing the program- something Jackie couldn't do
    I think he MIGHT have elevated it just a BIT. Stabilizing it makes it sound like he managed to keep it at the level he found it. Croom might have done that. Come on Random.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgday166 View Post
    2015 we had Dak. Couldn't run against anyone, including a horrible AU team.
    Yep- even a Taco Bell manager can see his post was not very good. Either we have a system problem or a talent problem when we face good defenses. And It's not the system. Doesn't matter if we have Dak or what at QB- we don't ever run the ball vs good defenses. That shows we lack talent on the OL.

    Make sure and watch this Fall- we have Fitz and Aeris and we still won't run effectively vs Georgia, Bama, Auburn, or LSU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg View Post
    I think he MIGHT have elevated it just a BIT. Stabilizing it makes it sound like he managed to keep it at the level he found it. Croom might have done that. Come on Random.
    In addition to being a shitty poster- your vocabulary isn't very good either.

    Stabilizing means he has avoided the up and down seasons in his tenure. Jackie would get on a run and then fall back for a couple of seasons. Mullen has avoided that for the most part until last season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bigdawg View Post
    So you are putting the blame on Mullen?
    We had the NFL ROY at QB plus 2 All-SEC WR's in 2015. Our problems in the run game had zero to do with teams "loading the box"

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    We have not had SEC talent on the offensive line under Mullen. Blame in on whomever you want, but it's been that way for way too long under this current coaching regime.. Also, it wasn't that way historically under the previous four coaches.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Poster View Post
    Yep- even a Taco Bell manager can see his post was not very good. Either we have a system problem or a talent problem when we face good defenses. And It's not the system. Doesn't matter if we have Dak or what at QB- we don't ever run the ball vs good defenses. That shows we lack talent on the OL.

    Make sure and watch this Fall- we have Fitz and Aeris and we still won't run effectively vs Georgia, Bama, Auburn, or LSU
    I'll be watching. Hope you (and I) are wrong ... but fear we probably won't be.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Schmedlap View Post
    We have not had SEC talent on the offensive line under Mullen. Blame in on whomever you want, but it's been that way for way too long under this current coaching regime.. Also, it wasn't that way historically under the previous four coaches.
    The thing is, when you look at the season averages for our squads we are running the ball pretty effectively in general. I think the problem is that we don't pick one guy to tote the rock the majority of the time (except the QB), and we try to utilize the RB in situations that they aren't built for (see Brandon Holloway). Holloway was a good player for us, and I loved his effort and attitude. But he was too small to run between the tackles like a guy with an extra 4 inches and 50 pounds.

    It seems like the issue we have is not moving the ball on the ground but scoring TDs on the ground.

    Anyway, here's the rushing stats since 2012:

    2012:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Ladarius Perkins 205 1024 5.0 8
    2 Josh Robinson 55 335 6.1 1
    3 Tyler Russell 43 -5 -0.1
    4 Derrick Milton 34 165 4.9 2
    5 Nick Griffin 32 223 7.0 1
    6 Dak Prescott 32 118 3.7 4
    7 Jameon Lewis 5 21 4.2 0

    2013:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Ladarius Perkins 137 542 4.0 2
    2 Dak Prescott 134 829 6.2 13
    3 Josh Robinson 78 459 5.9 3
    4 Ashton Shumpert 46 190 4.1 3
    5 Damian Williams 37 112 3.0 1
    6 Tyler Russell 26 15 0.6 0
    7 Nick Griffin 24 96 4.0 1
    8 Jameon Lewis 13 117 9.0 3
    9 Derrick Milton 13 69 5.3 2
    10 Brandon Holloway 8 38 4.8 0

    2014:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Dak Prescott 210 986 4.7 14
    2 Josh Robinson 190 1203 6.3 11
    3 Ashton Shumpert 47 274 5.8 2
    4 Brandon Holloway 45 294 6.5 1
    5 Nick Griffin 39 157 4.0 1
    6 Damian Williams 16 63 3.9 0
    7 Jameon Lewis 7 56 8.0 0
    8 Gabe Myles 4 35 8.8 0
    9 Bennie Braswell 4 9 2.3 0
    10 Fred Ross 2 6 3.0 0

    2015:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Dak Prescott 160 588 3.7 10
    2 Brandon Holloway 92 413 4.5 0
    3 Ashton Shumpert 59 228 3.9 1
    4 Aeris Williams 40 206 5.2 3
    5 Nick Fitzgerald 23 127 5.5 3
    6 Dontavian Lee 22 137 6.2 0
    7 Malik Dear 11 110 10.0
    8 Gabe Myles 7 11 1.6 1
    9 Elijah Staley 3 18 6.0 0
    10 Fred Ross 2 42 21.0
    11 Logan Cooke 1 11 11.0

    2016:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Nick Fitzgerald 195 1375 7.1 16
    2 Aeris Williams 137 720 5.3 4
    3 Ashton Shumpert 55 257 4.7 1
    4 Brandon Holloway 50 226 4.5 1
    5 Keith Mixon 25 106 4.2 0
    6 Damian Williams 19 99 5.2 1
    7 Malik Dear 17 124 7.3 1
    8 Nick Gibson 9 57 6.3 0
    9 Dontavian Lee 7 27 3.9 0
    10 Fred Ross 2 39 19.5

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption View Post
    The thing is, when you look at the season averages for our squads we are running the ball pretty effectively in general. I think the problem is that we don't pick one guy to tote the rock the majority of the time (except the QB), and we try to utilize the RB in situations that they aren't built for (see Brandon Holloway). Holloway was a good player for us, and I loved his effort and attitude. But he was too small to run between the tackles like a guy with an extra 4 inches and 50 pounds.

    It seems like the issue we have is not moving the ball on the ground but scoring TDs on the ground.

    Anyway, here's the rushing stats since 2012:

    2012:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Ladarius Perkins 205 1024 5.0 8
    2 Josh Robinson 55 335 6.1 1
    3 Tyler Russell 43 -5 -0.1
    4 Derrick Milton 34 165 4.9 2
    5 Nick Griffin 32 223 7.0 1
    6 Dak Prescott 32 118 3.7 4
    7 Jameon Lewis 5 21 4.2 0

    2013:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Ladarius Perkins 137 542 4.0 2
    2 Dak Prescott 134 829 6.2 13
    3 Josh Robinson 78 459 5.9 3
    4 Ashton Shumpert 46 190 4.1 3
    5 Damian Williams 37 112 3.0 1
    6 Tyler Russell 26 15 0.6 0
    7 Nick Griffin 24 96 4.0 1
    8 Jameon Lewis 13 117 9.0 3
    9 Derrick Milton 13 69 5.3 2
    10 Brandon Holloway 8 38 4.8 0

    2014:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Dak Prescott 210 986 4.7 14
    2 Josh Robinson 190 1203 6.3 11
    3 Ashton Shumpert 47 274 5.8 2
    4 Brandon Holloway 45 294 6.5 1
    5 Nick Griffin 39 157 4.0 1
    6 Damian Williams 16 63 3.9 0
    7 Jameon Lewis 7 56 8.0 0
    8 Gabe Myles 4 35 8.8 0
    9 Bennie Braswell 4 9 2.3 0
    10 Fred Ross 2 6 3.0 0

    2015:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Dak Prescott 160 588 3.7 10
    2 Brandon Holloway 92 413 4.5 0
    3 Ashton Shumpert 59 228 3.9 1
    4 Aeris Williams 40 206 5.2 3
    5 Nick Fitzgerald 23 127 5.5 3
    6 Dontavian Lee 22 137 6.2 0
    7 Malik Dear 11 110 10.0
    8 Gabe Myles 7 11 1.6 1
    9 Elijah Staley 3 18 6.0 0
    10 Fred Ross 2 42 21.0
    11 Logan Cooke 1 11 11.0

    2016:
    ATT YDS YPA TD
    1 Nick Fitzgerald 195 1375 7.1 16
    2 Aeris Williams 137 720 5.3 4
    3 Ashton Shumpert 55 257 4.7 1
    4 Brandon Holloway 50 226 4.5 1
    5 Keith Mixon 25 106 4.2 0
    6 Damian Williams 19 99 5.2 1
    7 Malik Dear 17 124 7.3 1
    8 Nick Gibson 9 57 6.3 0
    9 Dontavian Lee 7 27 3.9 0
    10 Fred Ross 2 39 19.5
    You might want to check out individual games in '15 and '16 against the upper echelon teams. I also discount the QB since I believe his #1 thing should be yds thru the air. If he's dominating the rushing stats ... I don't think that is a great thing. Supplementing rushing stats is one thing ... dominating them is another.

  19. #79
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    Our stats are fine- except vs good teams

    We cant run the ball vs the top West teams every year and are out of the games by halftime. Happens every year

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgday166 View Post
    You might want to check out individual games in '15 and '16 against the upper echelon teams. I also discount the QB since I believe his #1 thing should be yds thru the air. If he's dominating the rushing stats ... I don't think that is a great thing. Supplementing rushing stats is one thing ... dominating them is another.
    I disagree on this. Today's Spread offense is about numbers and the QB being able to run the ball. Our QB should be our leading rusher every season. It's about production at QB- not just passing.

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