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Thread: Is Mullen/MSU football taking another step?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    When Mullen arrived he had a football program with no tradition of sustained winning, no reputation for putting players into the league at skill positions, sub-par facilities, a town with a reputation of being dead, a stadium with ZERO gameday atmosphere, playing in the toughest division in the toughest conference in the country, having to recruit against perennial national powers AND the cheatingist SOBs in the history of CFB.

    Even the most enlightened among us - including random posters like C34 - admitted openly that to truly build a program into a contending power would take at least 10 years of bowl games every year and occasional jumps to 10 wins, etc. to consistently get the type players and attention to reverse 100 years of bad football traditions. It was only when Mullen began producing on a national level with 3-stars (years ahead of what EVERYONE thought) that those enlightened souls began dogging began critiquing Mullen for being a bad recruiter, and blaming Dan for not "taking advantage of 2014". Well, starting last year for the first time ever, we are recruiting kids who's only visions of MSU and Starkville are POSITIVE. They have seen Dan put McKinney, Slay, Banks, Jones and Dak - among 28 total guys in NFL camps right now. Twenty-Eight. They have seen us at #1. They have seen us on GameDay. They have seen Starkville featured everywhere. They have seen us put the face of the future on the Dallas Cowboys.

    What Dan has built has coming to fruition. And yes, it took 10 years. But, quality, lasting products take time. There are bumps along the way. But we are just now at the point of having everything the big boys have and kids are noticing. The next 10 will show it.
    You also left off Gabe Jackson who is going to be one of the highest paid guards in the league and Fletcher Cox one of if not the highest paid Dlineman. This is another thing to publicize. We are not only getting guys in the league but when their contract comes up then they are some of the highest paid in the league. KJ Wright, Slay, Jackson, and Cox all got big contracts and Dak will be there in a couple of years.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    It's a great pickup. But we still only have 2 4star commits (247 composite) and the class is #24 right now. Still got a lot of work to do.

  3. #23
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    The High School Coach is a MSU Grad....we have never been able to run the ball against an upper tier SEC defense...
    No one runs against those guys. Your friend being an MSU fan tells me that he had preconceived notions about Hevesy and likely used a healthy dose of confirmation bias.

    Not saying he's wrong, but I'd be much more interested in the opinion of someone not associated with anything MSU. A fresh set of eyes. Your buddy maybe a great coach, but even great coaches are still fans of their favorite team and become emotional.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  4. #24
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    It's a great pickup. But we still only have 2 4star commits (247 composite) and the class is #24 right now. Still got a lot of work to do.
    Your going to be disappointed this year. We don't have enough scholarships to rank high.

    Until we start losing tons of JRs to the draft like Bama and LSU and thus have the scholarships to sign full classes every year, we are simply never going to have high ranking recruiting classes.

    This class will rank in the late 20s or 30s but be stock full of great players.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  5. #25
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    No one runs against those guys. Your friend being an MSU fan tells me that he had preconceived notions about Hevesy and likely used a healthy dose of confirmation bias.

    Not saying he's wrong, but I'd be much more interested in the opinion of someone not associated with anything MSU. A fresh set of eyes. Your buddy maybe a great coach, but even great coaches are still fans of their favorite team and become emotional.
    It could also be a difference in coaching styles that he dislikes. Some coaches don't like the get all in your ass yelling technique. Could be the difference between a coach like Cohen and Canny.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Not a Hevesy fan here, but I wonder if the myth of him being a bad coach has surpassed the reality.

    1. How come none of our former players ever have a bad thing to say about Hevesy? Not saying he's great, but if he were awful, wouldn't one of the former players have said something publicly by now?

    2. I would question if your HS coach friend was an MSU fan & if he already had a poor perception of Hevesy before attending practice. Just seems like their could have been a heavy dose of confirmation bias here if your HS coach friend was able to attend one single practice & determine that he wouldn't want his kids playing for Hev. Again, not a fan here & not saying he's wrong, but it seems like the myth may have surpasses reality at this point. I mean, the guy has now been an SEC OL coach for 8 years &, unless we have the wrong RB or QB playing, we've virtually been able to run the football the entire time. So he can't be awful & accomplish that.
    I would say Hev if u have ever spent 5 minutes with the guy u would think he is a jerk however once his players are in he really builds great relationships with them. I've seen him grab a couple of oline and go watch a men's basketball game and they are cutting up having a good time. Hev issue recruiting is he needs to recruit the high school coaches first. He needs a strong rapport with them first to ever get to the player because they are the gatekeeper in most instances but when u walk in all Billy Bada$$ and I'm the sec coach acting bigger/better than the gatekeeper then u don't get far

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    When Mullen arrived he had a football program with no tradition of sustained winning, no reputation for putting players into the league at skill positions, sub-par facilities, a town with a reputation of being dead, a stadium with ZERO gameday atmosphere, playing in the toughest division in the toughest conference in the country, having to recruit against perennial national powers AND the cheatingist SOBs in the history of CFB.

    Even the most enlightened among us - including random posters like C34 - admitted openly that to truly build a program into a contending power would take at least 10 years of bowl games every year and occasional jumps to 10 wins, etc. to consistently get the type players and attention to reverse 100 years of bad football traditions. It was only when Mullen began producing on a national level with 3-stars (years ahead of what EVERYONE thought) that those enlightened souls began dogging began critiquing Mullen for being a bad recruiter, and blaming Dan for not "taking advantage of 2014". Well, starting last year for the first time ever, we are recruiting kids who's only visions of MSU and Starkville are POSITIVE. They have seen Dan put McKinney, Slay, Banks, Jones and Dak - among 28 total guys in NFL camps right now. Twenty-Eight. They have seen us at #1. They have seen us on GameDay. They have seen Starkville featured everywhere. They have seen us put the face of the future on the Dallas Cowboys.

    What Dan has built has coming to fruition. And yes, it took 10 years. But, quality, lasting products take time. There are bumps along the way. But we are just now at the point of having everything the big boys have and kids are noticing. The next 10 will show it.
    Yep.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    The High School Coach is a MSU Grad....we have never been able to run the ball against an upper tier SEC defense...
    Serious question: Who does?

  9. #29
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    No one runs against those guys. Your friend being an MSU fan tells me that he had preconceived notions about Hevesy and likely used a healthy dose of confirmation bias.

    Not saying he's wrong, but I'd be much more interested in the opinion of someone not associated with anything MSU. A fresh set of eyes. Your buddy maybe a great coach, but even great coaches are still fans of their favorite team and become emotional.
    So here is a question I've wanted to ask for a long time -
    Who played a sport at a high level (top tier HS, college, or pro) who didn't have either a head coach/assistant coach/position coach that was a dick? I played top tier HS baseball and summer leagues (pre-travel ball era) in Georgia, and the number of dick coaches I encountered goes head-to-head with the number of "likeable" coaches. My HS strength coach was a dick. The OL coach, RB coach, and DB coach at my HS had reps as being dicks. But, players busted their asses for them. Some of the dickish coaches I had ended up being my favorite coaches I've ever played for. At some positions, like OL coach, the majority of coaches I've ever met had the rep as being a dick. What makes Hev such an uber dick?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Your going to be disappointed this year. We don't have enough scholarships to rank high.

    Until we start losing tons of JRs to the draft like Bama and LSU and thus have the scholarships to sign full classes every year, we are simply never going to have high ranking recruiting classes.

    This class will rank in the late 20s or 30s but be stock full of great players.
    Which is another recruiting issue that Mullen is going to have to fix. We rarely sign the limit and are always short scholarship players, yet we have no scholarships to give...............

  11. #31
    Senior Member War Machine Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Guys this Mayden pick up is big time. Dan Mullen, whose biggest criticism is recruitung, just snagged the top QB in Texas after getting the Louisiana player of the year QB last year. We also have Malik Heath on board and a good shot with Guidry and others.

    If the recruiting continues to progress as it has lately, we could be witnessing a Frank Beamer Virginia Tech type step like we've hoped for, where starting in 2018-2020 we may be a perennial 9+ win team and potentially jump a few teams in the SEC. By holding on to Dan, we now have a top coach in this league, and the timing is good with the troubles in Oxford, to get the best in the State the next several years.

    I'm not going to get too excited yet, but I really like the trend, and feel like we could be witnessing the beginning of another step up the ladder for our football program.

    Your thoughts?
    I can't in good conscience say yes until we start improving our recruiting on the OL. Unless we're getting some SEC caliber big uglies to protect all these badass QBs, we're going to be replaying the Kevin Fant years where the QB is running for his life all the time. If we start pulling some legit 3 star OL, then I think we can entertain the question of whether or not we're taking another step. Skill players are flashy and sexy, but this is a LOS league. And our LOS on offense is bottom half at best.
    Last edited by War Machine Dawg; 05-24-2017 at 09:13 AM.
    It's the roller coaster of hope that this program keeps us on that makes it hell being a State fan. - CadaverDawg, 10/15/22


  12. #32
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    From what I can see Heavesy is actually a very good coach. By that I mean he gets as much or more than you can expect out of most of the guys he gets. If he could ever get over the recruiting hump we would have a top notch offensive line. Hopefully he can because I don't think he is going anywhere unless he gets a top coordinator job or a head job somewhere.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Reason2succeed's Avatar
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    It's crazy how we can't have one thread that is positive about Mullen without it turning into a rant on Hev.
    Death penalty or bust!!!***

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Really liked us stepping up and hiring a known commodity at D.C.
    I am more exciting about this than anything. ^^^

  15. #35
    Senior Member War Machine Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg View Post
    From what I can see Heavesy is actually a very good coach. By that I mean he gets as much or more than you can expect out of most of the guys he gets. If he could ever get over the recruiting hump we would have a top notch offensive line. Hopefully he can because I don't think he is going anywhere unless he gets a top coordinator job or a head job somewhere.
    This is the correct answer. I think we all agree Hev is a pretty good "coach" in terms of developing what he has. The problem is that he's constantly trying to make chicken salad from chicken shit because he doesn't recruit. Everyone can keep asking what makes him so dislikable, but it isn't changing the fact he's alienated most of the HS coaches in the state. And Hev openly talks about how much he hates recruiting. He either needs to get with the program and go get himself some real OL to coach up or he needs to get the hell out. There's no more middle ground for him if we want to advance our program.
    It's the roller coaster of hope that this program keeps us on that makes it hell being a State fan. - CadaverDawg, 10/15/22


  16. #36
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    I am not a Hev fan and thinks he needs to do a lot of things to recruit better. However, judging by the flawed recruiting rankings, we will have our most talented OL in years this year.

    If we get this years signees into school, we will have another fairly solid group. One problem with our OL was bad evaluations in the early Mullen years. We had a lot of guys flame out.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg View Post
    And our LOS on offense is bottom half at best.
    You say this despite literally every single offensive category disagreeing with your assessment. Y'all that want us to recruit better at OL just keep brushing off the fact that there is no difference between 3* and 4* offensive lineman in terms of becoming NFL talents. You have to sign elite 5* top ten in the country OL types if you want the closest thing to a guaranteed NFL OL and we are never ever ever going to sign those players. Some of y'all keep chasing stars for OL and it's pointless. You are attracted to recruiting stars period. It gives us no more advantage to sign a 4* OL with offers from Auburn, Florida and Georgia than it does signing a 3* OL with offers from TCU, NCState and Colorado. Yet after reading this you will once again completely ignore it and call for Hevesy to be fired another 2,000 times.

  18. #38
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    You say this despite literally every single offensive category disagreeing with your assessment. Y'all that want us to recruit better at OL just keep brushing off the fact that there is no difference between 3* and 4* offensive lineman in terms of becoming NFL talents. You have to sign elite 5* top ten in the country OL types if you want the closest thing to a guaranteed NFL OL and we are never ever ever going to sign those players. Some of y'all keep chasing stars for OL and it's pointless. You are attracted to recruiting stars period. It gives us no more advantage to sign a 4* OL with offers from Auburn, Florida and Georgia than it does signing a 3* OL with offers from TCU, NCState and Colorado. Yet after reading this you will once again completely ignore it and call for Hevesy to be fired another 2,000 times.
    The Hev Haters be like:


  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg View Post
    If we start pulling some legit 3 star OL, then I think we can entertain the question of whether or not we're taking another step.
    I totally agree but Hev has started doing that more in the last few classes but he has to continue to improve & do it with a whole class.

    2015 - M. Rankin 5 SEC Offers 10 Power 5 Offers
    D. Williams 3 SEC Offers 5 Power 5 Offers
    H. Moon 1 SEC Offer 2 Power 5 Offers
    M. Story 1 SEC Offer 1 Power 5 Offer

    2016 - S. Reese 9 SEC Offers 25 Power 5 Offers
    G. Eiland 4 SEC Offers 4 Power 5 Offers
    D. Parker 1 SEC Offer 1 Power 5 Offer

    2017 - T. Champion 3 SEC Offers 5 Power 5 Offers
    T. Phillips 1 SEC Offer 1 Power 5 Offer
    C. Suggs 3 SEC Offers 16 Power 5 Offers
    J. Cooper 1 SEC Offer 2 Power 5 Offers
    M. Richardson 1 SEC Offer 1 Power 5 Offer

    2018 - K. Johnson 2 SEC Offers 2 Power 5 Offers

    So we've slowly improved but we need a class of Reese, Suggs, Johnson, & Williams all together & people would start to not hate Hev as much.

  20. #40
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    Dont understand the debate on Hev. Its a proven fact at this point he is an above average OL coach but a bad recruiter and not easy to like. Just something we will live with till he gets an OC or HC offer from somewhere else.

    Mullen has stepped it up and hired a legit SEC/NFL type DC and it will make a world of difference. He wont meddle with the D anymore and can focus on just offense which is clearly what he is best at.

    Winning 9 games this year is possible but we have to stay healthy on the OL and have to get something from our WRs. I dont think they are as bad as Random says but its a concern. D will be fine

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