Cannizaro?????

[Commercecomet24]

This is more than likely the correct answer. I doubt Canny just randomly chose to send out our Ace to hit just for shits and giggles. There has been meltdowns on this and other boards over things like Trey Porter not playing every day and then after the season you learn they are battling an injury. Dak not running as much was another one and then we find out they kept quiet his broken ribs from a car accident. Most of the coaches at this level aren't total morons.

Exactly! I can guarantee that no one wants to win worse than Cann! The dude is a competitor and a winner. He didn't do what he did just for laughs.

[Commercecomet24]

Amazing when Bear Bryant did this kind of thing, he was called a great coach. Guess times have changed.

[Todd4State]

Amazing when Bear Bryant did this kind of thing, he was called a great coach. Guess times have changed.

We can't have coaches that yell, or do things that might hurt our players feelings. Or maybe they're just sports/baseball ignorant.

Some of these guys sound like my Mom telling me I could have gotten into an accident on I-55 when I was driving there in high school. Even though- guess what? It didn't happen.

I mean, I can't wrap around my head that they think our coach actually "quit" because he took out players that weren't giving full effort like they should. What the hell do they want? And then because he had to put in pitchers because we're down to like 23 guys or whatever it is they're mad because "someone could have gotten hurt?" And to top it off- NO ONE EVEN GOT HURT!

It's ludicrous.

[Commercecomet24]

We can't have coaches that yell, or do things that might hurt our players feelings. Or maybe they're just sports/baseball ignorant.

Some of these guys sound like my Mom telling me I could have gotten into an accident on I-55 when I was driving there in high school. Even though- guess what? It didn't happen.

I mean, I can't wrap around my head that they think our coach actually "quit" because he took out players that weren't giving full effort like they should. What the hell do they want? And then because he had to put in pitchers because we're down to like 23 guys or whatever it is they're mad because "someone could have gotten hurt?" And to top it off- NO ONE EVEN GOT HURT!

It's ludicrous.

Yep. I know one thing for sure and without question, the first time you give in and don't correct lollygagging and lack of effort it becomes epidemic and you're screwed. Baseball really is different than a lot of sports because it moves at a more leisurely pace and sometimes it's easy(especially with young,young players) to lose focus and sometimes reality has to hit them upside the head. Had a coach years ago used to call those little teaching moments "brain dusters".

[Todd4State]

Yep. I know one thing for sure and without question, the first time you give in and don't correct lollygagging and lack of effort it becomes epidemic and you're screwed. Baseball really is different than a lot of sports because it moves at a more leisurely pace and sometimes it's easy(especially with young,young players) to lose focus and sometimes reality has to hit them upside the head. Had a coach years ago used to call those little teaching moments "brain dusters".

Exactly and thank you for the rep!

[msstate7]

First of all, Andruw Jones wasn't as good as Willie Mays defensively or Ken Griffey, Jr., among others. He's overrated at best, lazy at worst.

Second of all Cox had other outfielders to use.

Thirdly we did try to win the ****ing game by putting the best available players on the field that we could late. You know how I know that? Because of Cann's interview after the game where he told the media that you either give full effort (paraphrase because I know that's not the exact and you're going to nitpick it) you're going to be sitting by him on the bench.

On top of that, I have seen MLB teams use pitchers in the OF before too. I remember the Cubs doing it a few years ago. I remember the Cardinals doing it with Todd Worrell against the Mets in the 80's and then double switching out for a L/R match-up.

The BOTTOM LINE is what he did wasn't risky statistically speaking. NOTHING happened in terms of injury- which is not shocking given the odds. And if you think we weren't trying to win the game- you're clueless. And going after Cann for putting the best players available to us at the time- and remember the Braves can't legally call up players in the middle of a game because of MLB roster rules so get out of here with that bullshit as if the guys at AAA are just as good anyway- and then saying that he "gave up" because he took out players that were already giving HALF ASSED EFFORT and weren't going to change in that moment anyway is contradictory at worst and just plain baseball ignorant at best.

Griffey better than andruw? Lol

UZR...
KG = -110
AJ = 128.8

Def value on fangraphs...
KG = -39.6
AJ = 281.3

Willie mays' best Def value on fangraphs was 20.1 in '54. Andruw topped that 8 times with a max at 38.5

Baseball reference disagrees with you also.

dWAR...
AJ = 24.1
KG = 1.3
WM = 18.1

[Todd4State]

Griffey better than andruw? Lol

UZR...
KG = -110
AJ = 128.8

Def value on fangraphs...
KG = -39.6
AJ = 281.3

Willie mays' best Def value on fangraphs was 20.1 in '54. Andruw topped that 8 times with a max at 38.5

Using unrefined defensive metrics to prove a point?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpkco2rHsKc

Times Andruw Jones was pulled for loafing? At least twice.

The only people that think that Andruw Jones is best CF of all time are Braves homers.

This would be like me claiming that Ozzie Smith is a better SS than Derek Jeter solely because of his defense.

[smootness]

The only people that think that Andruw Jones is best CF of all time are Braves homers.

First, it's hilarious to see a Cardinals fan say something like this.

Second:
http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/p...-the-best-ever
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...w-jones-braves
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/in-de...e-credentials/
http://www.gammonsdaily.com/is-andru...hall-of-famer/

Andruw Jones is underrated. He is the unquestioned best defensive CF of all-time, and in his prime he was flat out unbelievable there. If you don't know of any plays, it's because you never watched him. The spider-man catch is at least as good as Mays' over-the-shoulder catch, it just didn't come in the World Series. And part of Andruw's genius was that when you saw him have to really run down a catch but ultimately make it standing up, there is a good chance that no other CF in baseball history makes the play without laying out completely for it.

[Todd4State]

First, it's hilarious to see a Cardinals fan say something like this.

Second:
http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/p...-the-best-ever
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...w-jones-braves
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/in-de...e-credentials/
http://www.gammonsdaily.com/is-andru...hall-of-famer/

Andruw Jones is underrated. He is the unquestioned best defensive CF of all-time, and in his prime he was flat out unbelievable there. If you don't know of any plays, it's because you never watched him. The spider-man catch is at least as good as Mays' over-the-shoulder catch, it just didn't come in the World Series. And part of Andruw's genius was that when you saw him have to really run down a catch but ultimately make it standing up, there is a good chance that no other CF in baseball history makes the play without laying out completely for it.

He's "underrated" because he was lazy. I've only seen him in person a few times. It's hilarious to see anyone say that any Andruw Jones catch ever was as good as Mays catch. Mays had to run almost 500 feet in the old Polo Grounds to make that catch and then he threw a strike from CF to prevent the runners from advancing. He's the best defensive center fielder of all time- if you're a Braves fan. Mays UZR would probably be better if he told the other OF's around him to play a little wider in the outfielder so that he could cover more ground.

[smootness]

He's "underrated" because he was lazy. I've only seen him in person a few times. It's hilarious to see anyone say that any Andruw Jones catch ever was as good as Mays catch. Mays had to run almost 500 feet in the old Polo Grounds to make that catch and then he threw a strike from CF to prevent the runners from advancing. He's the best defensive center fielder of all time- if you're a Braves fan. Mays UZR would probably be better if he told the other OF's around him to play a little wider in the outfielder so that he could cover more ground.

The fact that you think Mays' UZR could be lower because other OFs were too close to him pretty much says it all.

I gave you four links of mainstream sources who think Andruw is at the very least one of the top handful of CFs ever defensively.

And Andruw wasn't lazy. That is a reputation that he got because he acted nonchalant on routine plays and smiled a lot. You don't play the way he played if you're lazy. And if you do - if Andruw Jones really was lazy - he was still the greatest defensive OFer of all time. So you sure do think an awful lot of his natural ability.

500 feet...good gosh, man. How big do you think the Polo Grounds was?

[msstate7]

Using unrefined defensive metrics to prove a point?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpkco2rHsKc

Times Andruw Jones was pulled for loafing? At least twice.

The only people that think that Andruw Jones is best CF of all time are Braves homers.

This would be like me claiming that Ozzie Smith is a better SS than Derek Jeter solely because of his defense.

I never saw Willie mays, but Griffey over Andruw is just dumb. I don't need stats to know that, but the stats show Griffey wasn't even good in CF much less in Andruw's class

[Todd4State]

I never saw Willie mays, but Griffey over Andruw is just dumb. I don't need stats to know that, but the stats show Griffey wasn't even good in CF much less in Andruw's class

It's dumb if you're a Braves homer. Of course I don't particularly care for players that are lazy and based on this thread you obviously have no problem with that.

MLB Network did a list of the top 9 CF's of all time and Jones didn't even MAKE THE LIST. Griffey, Jr. did. I guess they're dumb too.

[Cooterpoot]

I never saw Willie mays, but Griffey over Andruw is just dumb. I don't need stats to know that, but the stats show Griffey wasn't even good in CF much less in Andruw's class

Before injuries to Griffey, there was no comparison. I could name 10 better centerfielders than Jones just off the top of my head. Braves fans .........

[Todd4State]

Before injuries to Griffey, there was no comparison. I could name 10 better centerfielders than Jones just off the top of my head. Braves fans .........

I think Mays made the best play in baseball history. Some of Griffey's were memorable too- like the time he broke his wrist making that catch in CF when he was with the Mariners. I honestly can't think of an Andruw Jones play that stands out to me. Edmonds arm wasn't as good- but he was a better player than Jones and he made some ridiculous plays. Trout is a great CF too. Torrii Hunter is great.

[Bama_Dawg]

Ok, let me see if I can address a few points:

1. Pilk is from South MS, just 20 minutes away from Mobile and USA's campus. He wasn't going to pitch, but his family and hometown friends were there. So let the kid play.
2. Pilk played 1B in HS too, and could crank the ball. But from the look of last night and how he waved at the 3rd strike, he's not picked up a bat in a while. So he could play 1B, but would be a liability at the plate until he got more comfortable batting again. Dual position threat, hardly, but in a pinch, could be.
3. Cann showed NO fire last night and showed me that he didn't care about a mid-week game. There were 2 questionable calls on bang/bang plays at first that from my eye were dead wrong and both went in USA's favor. Cann should have been in the ump's face for that. He did get catcher interference called on USA and we got a free base runner, but still those other plays were difference makers too.

[Todd4State]

Ok, let me see if I can address a few points:

1. Pilk is from South MS, just 20 minutes away from Mobile and USA's campus. He wasn't going to pitch, but his family and hometown friends were there. So let the kid play.
2. Pilk played 1B in HS too, and could crank the ball. But from the look of last night and how he waved at the 3rd strike, he's not picked up a bat in a while. So he could play 1B, but would be a liability at the plate until he got more comfortable batting again. Dual position threat, hardly, but in a pinch, could be.
3. Cann showed NO fire last night and showed me that he didn't care about a mid-week game. There were 2 questionable calls on bang/bang plays at first that from my eye were dead wrong and both went in USA's favor. Cann should have been in the ump's face for that. He did get catcher interference called on USA and we got a free base runner, but still those other plays were difference makers too.

One thing I've learned from watching baseball is if the coaches don't get upset about a bang bang call it's probably because the coaches thought the umpire got it right.

[Bama_Dawg]

One thing I've learned from watching baseball is if the coaches don't get upset about a bang bang call it's probably because the coaches thought the umpire got it right.

One thing I've learned coaching baseball is if you get on an ump, the next time there is a questionable call, he'll be more likely to call in your favor just to keep you off his a$$.

Or either toss you...but hey, its a mid-week game...

[Todd4State]

One thing I've learned coaching baseball is if you get on an ump, the next time there is a questionable call, he'll be more likely to call in your favor just to keep you off his a$$.

Or either toss you...but hey, its a mid-week game...

Or sometimes you'll piss them off and then you won't get any calls. It just depends on the umpire.

[Homedawg]

One thing I've learned from watching baseball is if the coaches don't get upset about a bang bang call it's probably because the coaches thought the umpire got it right.

This. And fight the fights worth fighting. Or only if you've gotten hosed before. It's like bitching about balls and strikes after they guy missed one pitch. Gets you nowhere.

[msstate7]

It's dumb if you're a Braves homer. Of course I don't particularly care for players that are lazy and based on this thread you obviously have no problem with that.

MLB Network did a list of the top 9 CF's of all time and Jones didn't even MAKE THE LIST. Griffey, Jr. did. I guess they're dumb too.

If they made a list of the best DEFENSIVE CFs of all time and Andruw wasn't top 9, then yeah, they dumb