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Thread: Cannizaro?????

  1. #121
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggie_Style View Post
    That kind of sophomoric move can go more than one way. Maybe it does spark the team but it may also result in breaking the momentum this team has developed the last few weeks and sending us into a tail spin. I think it was the wrong decision on Cann's part but the remainder of the season will have the final say.
    But just letting things go and still losing to USA would definitely have an impact on the rest of the year.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Amazing when Bear Bryant did this kind of thing, he was called a great coach. Guess times have changed.

  3. #123
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Cox went and got the best defensive CF the game has seen mid-inning for lack of effort. Cox didn't put glavine in CF though... I think you can make your point and still actually try to win the game
    First of all, Andruw Jones wasn't as good as Willie Mays defensively or Ken Griffey, Jr., among others. He's overrated at best, lazy at worst.

    Second of all Cox had other outfielders to use.

    Thirdly we did try to win the ****ing game by putting the best available players on the field that we could late. You know how I know that? Because of Cann's interview after the game where he told the media that you either give full effort (paraphrase because I know that's not the exact and you're going to nitpick it) you're going to be sitting by him on the bench.

    On top of that, I have seen MLB teams use pitchers in the OF before too. I remember the Cubs doing it a few years ago. I remember the Cardinals doing it with Todd Worrell against the Mets in the 80's and then double switching out for a L/R match-up.

    The BOTTOM LINE is what he did wasn't risky statistically speaking. NOTHING happened in terms of injury- which is not shocking given the odds. And if you think we weren't trying to win the game- you're clueless. And going after Cann for putting the best players available to us at the time- and remember the Braves can't legally call up players in the middle of a game because of MLB roster rules so get out of here with that bullshit as if the guys at AAA are just as good anyway- and then saying that he "gave up" because he took out players that were already giving HALF ASSED EFFORT and weren't going to change in that moment anyway is contradictory at worst and just plain baseball ignorant at best.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Amazing when Bear Bryant did this kind of thing, he was called a great coach. Guess times have changed.
    We can't have coaches that yell, or do things that might hurt our players feelings. Or maybe they're just sports/baseball ignorant.

    Some of these guys sound like my Mom telling me I could have gotten into an accident on I-55 when I was driving there in high school. Even though- guess what? It didn't happen.

    I mean, I can't wrap around my head that they think our coach actually "quit" because he took out players that weren't giving full effort like they should. What the hell do they want? And then because he had to put in pitchers because we're down to like 23 guys or whatever it is they're mad because "someone could have gotten hurt?" And to top it off- NO ONE EVEN GOT HURT!

    It's ludicrous.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNDawg35 View Post
    Is anyone else getting the feeling either Dawgpatrol is a player or a players parent?
    I think he's what I call a "pleaser".

    You know- one of those "it's only a game, let's all have fun and show good sportsmanship and then if we lose we'll just all talk about how we're more classy than the other team" people. I can't stand those people personally.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    We can't have coaches that yell, or do things that might hurt our players feelings. Or maybe they're just sports/baseball ignorant.

    Some of these guys sound like my Mom telling me I could have gotten into an accident on I-55 when I was driving there in high school. Even though- guess what? It didn't happen.

    I mean, I can't wrap around my head that they think our coach actually "quit" because he took out players that weren't giving full effort like they should. What the hell do they want? And then because he had to put in pitchers because we're down to like 23 guys or whatever it is they're mad because "someone could have gotten hurt?" And to top it off- NO ONE EVEN GOT HURT!

    It's ludicrous.
    Yep. I know one thing for sure and without question, the first time you give in and don't correct lollygagging and lack of effort it becomes epidemic and you're screwed. Baseball really is different than a lot of sports because it moves at a more leisurely pace and sometimes it's easy(especially with young,young players) to lose focus and sometimes reality has to hit them upside the head. Had a coach years ago used to call those little teaching moments "brain dusters".

  7. #127
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    I think he's what I call a "pleaser".

    You know- one of those "it's only a game, let's all have fun and show good sportsmanship and then if we lose we'll just all talk about how we're more classy than the other team" people. I can't stand those people personally.
    Rep Given!

  8. #128
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    First of all, Andruw Jones wasn't as good as Willie Mays defensively or Ken Griffey, Jr., among others. He's overrated at best, lazy at worst.

    Second of all Cox had other outfielders to use.

    Thirdly we did try to win the ****ing game by putting the best available players on the field that we could late. You know how I know that? Because of Cann's interview after the game where he told the media that you either give full effort (paraphrase because I know that's not the exact and you're going to nitpick it) you're going to be sitting by him on the bench.

    On top of that, I have seen MLB teams use pitchers in the OF before too. I remember the Cubs doing it a few years ago. I remember the Cardinals doing it with Todd Worrell against the Mets in the 80's and then double switching out for a L/R match-up.

    The BOTTOM LINE is what he did wasn't risky statistically speaking. NOTHING happened in terms of injury- which is not shocking given the odds. And if you think we weren't trying to win the game- you're clueless. And going after Cann for putting the best players available to us at the time- and remember the Braves can't legally call up players in the middle of a game because of MLB roster rules so get out of here with that bullshit as if the guys at AAA are just as good anyway- and then saying that he "gave up" because he took out players that were already giving HALF ASSED EFFORT and weren't going to change in that moment anyway is contradictory at worst and just plain baseball ignorant at best.
    Griffey better than andruw? Lol

    UZR...
    KG = -110
    AJ = 128.8

    Def value on fangraphs...
    KG = -39.6
    AJ = 281.3

    Willie mays' best Def value on fangraphs was 20.1 in '54. Andruw topped that 8 times with a max at 38.5

    Baseball reference disagrees with you also.

    dWAR...
    AJ = 24.1
    KG = 1.3
    WM = 18.1
    Last edited by msstate7; 04-19-2017 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Griffey better than andruw? Lol

    UZR...
    KG = -110
    AJ = 128.8

    Def value on fangraphs...
    KG = -39.6
    AJ = 281.3

    Willie mays' best Def value on fangraphs was 20.1 in '54. Andruw topped that 8 times with a max at 38.5
    Using unrefined defensive metrics to prove a point?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpkco2rHsKc

    Times Andruw Jones was pulled for loafing? At least twice.

    The only people that think that Andruw Jones is best CF of all time are Braves homers.

    This would be like me claiming that Ozzie Smith is a better SS than Derek Jeter solely because of his defense.

  10. #130
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Using unrefined defensive metrics to prove a point?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpkco2rHsKc

    Times Andruw Jones was pulled for loafing? At least twice.

    The only people that think that Andruw Jones is best CF of all time are Braves homers.

    This would be like me claiming that Ozzie Smith is a better SS than Derek Jeter solely because of his defense.
    I never saw Willie mays, but Griffey over Andruw is just dumb. I don't need stats to know that, but the stats show Griffey wasn't even good in CF much less in Andruw's class

  11. #131
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Yep. I know one thing for sure and without question, the first time you give in and don't correct lollygagging and lack of effort it becomes epidemic and you're screwed. Baseball really is different than a lot of sports because it moves at a more leisurely pace and sometimes it's easy(especially with young,young players) to lose focus and sometimes reality has to hit them upside the head. Had a coach years ago used to call those little teaching moments "brain dusters".
    Exactly and thank you for the rep!

  12. #132
    Senior Member Bama_Dawg's Avatar
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    Ok, let me see if I can address a few points:

    1. Pilk is from South MS, just 20 minutes away from Mobile and USA's campus. He wasn't going to pitch, but his family and hometown friends were there. So let the kid play.
    2. Pilk played 1B in HS too, and could crank the ball. But from the look of last night and how he waved at the 3rd strike, he's not picked up a bat in a while. So he could play 1B, but would be a liability at the plate until he got more comfortable batting again. Dual position threat, hardly, but in a pinch, could be.
    3. Cann showed NO fire last night and showed me that he didn't care about a mid-week game. There were 2 questionable calls on bang/bang plays at first that from my eye were dead wrong and both went in USA's favor. Cann should have been in the ump's face for that. He did get catcher interference called on USA and we got a free base runner, but still those other plays were difference makers too.

  13. #133
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I never saw Willie mays, but Griffey over Andruw is just dumb. I don't need stats to know that, but the stats show Griffey wasn't even good in CF much less in Andruw's class
    It's dumb if you're a Braves homer. Of course I don't particularly care for players that are lazy and based on this thread you obviously have no problem with that.

    MLB Network did a list of the top 9 CF's of all time and Jones didn't even MAKE THE LIST. Griffey, Jr. did. I guess they're dumb too.

  14. #134
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    It's dumb if you're a Braves homer. Of course I don't particularly care for players that are lazy and based on this thread you obviously have no problem with that.

    MLB Network did a list of the top 9 CF's of all time and Jones didn't even MAKE THE LIST. Griffey, Jr. did. I guess they're dumb too.
    If they made a list of the best DEFENSIVE CFs of all time and Andruw wasn't top 9, then yeah, they dumb

  15. #135
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    Ok, let me see if I can address a few points:

    1. Pilk is from South MS, just 20 minutes away from Mobile and USA's campus. He wasn't going to pitch, but his family and hometown friends were there. So let the kid play.
    2. Pilk played 1B in HS too, and could crank the ball. But from the look of last night and how he waved at the 3rd strike, he's not picked up a bat in a while. So he could play 1B, but would be a liability at the plate until he got more comfortable batting again. Dual position threat, hardly, but in a pinch, could be.
    3. Cann showed NO fire last night and showed me that he didn't care about a mid-week game. There were 2 questionable calls on bang/bang plays at first that from my eye were dead wrong and both went in USA's favor. Cann should have been in the ump's face for that. He did get catcher interference called on USA and we got a free base runner, but still those other plays were difference makers too.
    One thing I've learned from watching baseball is if the coaches don't get upset about a bang bang call it's probably because the coaches thought the umpire got it right.

  16. #136
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I never saw Willie mays, but Griffey over Andruw is just dumb. I don't need stats to know that, but the stats show Griffey wasn't even good in CF much less in Andruw's class
    Before injuries to Griffey, there was no comparison. I could name 10 better centerfielders than Jones just off the top of my head. Braves fans .........

  17. #137
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    It's dumb if you're a Braves homer. Of course I don't particularly care for players that are lazy and based on this thread you obviously have no problem with that.

    MLB Network did a list of the top 9 CF's of all time and Jones didn't even MAKE THE LIST. Griffey, Jr. did. I guess they're dumb too.
    Just curious... which of our players are lazy and you don't care for?

  18. #138
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Before injuries to Griffey, there was no comparison. I could name 10 better centerfielders than Jones just off the top of my head. Braves fans .........
    Let's hear em... is it just your eye test or can you back it up with actual stats?

  19. #139
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    If they made a list of the best DEFENSIVE CFs of all time and Andruw wasn't top 9, then yeah, they dumb
    If they made a top 9 of players that wasted their talent he would be on that list too. Probably at number one. I don't care what the stats say- I can't put someone that lazy at number one. Especially with stats that are likely to be outdated in a few years.

  20. #140
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Just curious... which of our players are lazy and you don't care for?
    The same ones that Cann called out for their effort last night.

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