Cowherd gets the LBJ argument

[BeastMan]

From his opening and I think I have these stats right. The Spurs without Leonard and the Warriors without KD are a combined 17-3. The Cavs without LBJ are 0-6. "He's a traveling dynasty."

To take it further back to reinforce this argument, Jordan retires and the Bulls still go to the conference finals. If LBJ retires this tomorrow, the Cavs don't make the playoffs next year.

How people don't respect and understand how good LBJ is mind boggling. He's soooo much better than anyone currently in the league it's not close. Him not getting the MVP every year is laughable. All-time, the only other player that belongs in the discussion with him is MJ. That's it.

[smootness]

The Cavs would absolutely make the playoffs. When LeBron has rested, Kyrie has also often rested.

A team with Kyrie and Love is making the playoffs in the East, easily.

[smootness]

And I'm not sure how the Warriors' record without KD means anything. The Warriors won a title and won 73 without KD. Because KD is not the Warrior in the running for the best in the game. Curry is.

[BeastMan]

Ok, how about this. KD left the Thunder and they are a 6 seed who is 2.5 games out of 3rd place only trailing the ultra-elite Spurs and Warriors. Nobody means more

[BeastMan]

The Cavs would absolutely make the playoffs. When LeBron has rested, Kyrie has also often rested.

A team with Kyrie and Love is making the playoffs in the East, easily.

Cleveland averages 110 ppg and gives up 106.8. Using advanced metrics, Lebron is worth 16 points per 100 possessions for the Cavs. Maybe, just maybe they sneak on the playoffs but stats say they're a sub .500 team.

[Dawg61]

Nobody means more

Alonzo Ball and Lavar Ball both mean more. They are both better than LBJ, MJ, KD, Steph and UConn combined.

[BeastMan]

Alonzo Ball and Lavar Ball both mean more. They are both better than LBJ, MJ, KD, Steph and UConn combined.

God I'm sick of that media tour. He was lobbying for a reality show on Undisputed today

[louisvilledawg]

God I'm sick of that media tour. He was lobbying for a reality show on Undisputed today

I'm sick of it too, but good on Lavar for building that brand. I can't go an hour without being bombarded with Lavar, lamelo, or lonzo talk on the interwebs or office talk.

All pub is good pub

[Dawg61]

God I'm sick of that media tour. He was lobbying for a reality show on Undisputed today

Errrybody sick of it already. I would not draft him #1. His daddy is a problem and it's getting worse by the day.

[smootness]

Cleveland averages 110 ppg and gives up 106.8. Using advanced metrics, Lebron is worth 16 points per 100 possessions for the Cavs. Maybe, just maybe they sneak on the playoffs but stats say they're a sub .500 team.

You sure you want to use those stats? Because those stats say Curry is basically as good as LeBron this year, was better each of the two years before this one, and was better last year than LeBron has ever been.

[smootness]

Ok, how about this. KD left the Thunder and they are a 6 seed who is 2.5 games out of 3rd place only trailing the ultra-elite Spurs and Warriors. Nobody means more

Again, I don't think KD is in the argument for best in the game.

[Bubb Rubb]

Lebron's talent is not debatable. I cannot respect someone who flops around like he does though. I also don't like the games he plays with teammates and the front office in the media.

[HSVDawg]

The problem with the Cowherd argument is that how well a team does without their superstar is more a function of the quality of the supporting cast than how good the player is. The question isn't "how good would the Cavs be without LeBron", it's how good would they be if you swapped LeBron for Kawhi Leonard or Kevin Durant. If you take LeBron away they obviously would struggle to make the playoffs. But if you replace him with another MVP candidate and the results still aren't as good, then yes, LeBron is your MVP. If you can conceivably replace him with another player and get the same or better results, then its not as strong of a case for LBJ. It's a lot more difficult to assess that than to just say "take this guy away and what are you left with", but that is a much more viable argument. Players shouldn't win awards just based on being good players with a sketchy supporting cast.

[BeastMan]

The problem with the Cowherd argument is that how well a team does without their superstar is more a function of the quality of the supporting cast than how good the player is. The question isn't "how good would the Cavs be without LeBron", it's how good would they be if you swapped LeBron for Kawhi Leonard or Kevin Durant. If you take LeBron away they obviously would struggle to make the playoffs. But if you replace him with another MVP candidate and the results still aren't as good, then yes, LeBron is your MVP. If you can conceivably replace him with another player and get the same or better results, then its not as strong of a case for LBJ. It's a lot more difficult to assess that than to just say "take this guy away and what are you left with", but that is a much more viable argument. Players shouldn't win awards just based on being good players with a sketchy supporting cast.

It goes to show he says the best player in the game.

[BeastMan]

Lebron's talent is not debatable. I cannot respect someone who flops around like he does though. I also don't like the games he plays with teammates and the front office in the media.

Every player draws fouls. All of them. Part of the game. As far as being the GM publicly, that's been going on since Moses. Elite players pressure uncooperative front offices in the media.

[DudyDawg]

Again, I don't think KD is in the argument for best in the game.

Kevin Durant is the third best player in the game behind harden and lebron

Harden this season*

[HSVDawg]

It goes to show he says the best player in the game.

That's only the case if you can swap him with Leonard or Durant and still not get as good of results. I would add Westbrook and Harden to that list but they are not the same position so it isn't really apples to apples. But the point is, OKC is good without Durant because they still have Westbrook who is a Top 5 player. Bulls were good without Jordan because they still had Pippen who was a Top 5 player. Spurs are good without Leonard because they still have the whole cast (minus Duncan) that won all those titles. The Cavs don't have the same caliber supporting cast. They have Love who is a terrible defender and Kyrie Irving who is good but not Top 5 / Top 10 good.

For the record, I do agree that LeBron is definitely the best player in the NBA, and I think the player swaps mentioned above would show that. But that still doesn't mean that Cowherd's argument makes sense.

[DudyDawg]

That's only the case if you can swap him with Leonard or Durant and still not get as good of results. I would add Westbrook and Harden to that list but they are not the same position so it isn't really apples to apples. But the point is, OKC is good without Durant because they still have Westbrook who is a Top 5 player. Bulls were good without Jordan because they still had Pippen who was a Top 5 player. Spurs are good without Leonard because they still have the whole cast (minus Duncan) that won all those titles. The Cavs don't have the same caliber supporting cast. They have Love who is a terrible defender and Kyrie Irving who is good but not Top 5 / Top 10 good.

For the record, I do agree that LeBron is definitely the best player in the NBA, and I think the player swaps mentioned above would show that. But that still doesn't mean that Cowherd's argument makes sense.

Kyrie and love alone are better than any star's supporting cast outside of golden state. Kyrie is a Top 10 player and especially scorer, and love is a perfect offensive fit when healthy and a top 7-8 PF in the league.

That's not to mention guys like JR smith who can win games with his scoring, vets like RJ and Korver and Tristan Thompson

[HSVDawg]

Kyrie and love alone are better than any star's supporting cast outside of golden state. Kyrie is a Top 10 player and especially scorer, and love is a perfect offensive fit when healthy and a top 7-8 PF in the league.

That's not to mention guys like JR smith who can win games with his scoring, vets like RJ and Korver and Tristan Thompson

Well if all that is true, then they'd have no problem making the playoffs without LeBron. Thus remdering the argument even more meaningless.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

How people don't respect and understand how good LBJ is mind boggling.

It's mind boggling to me that people still watch the NBA.