BSR on Tommy John

[Dawgology]

So, Hadad interviewed one of the leading experts on Tommy Johns and the stats are eye-opening. Major programs have 1 Tommy John surgery every three years on average. We have seven...seven...in 15 months. That's insane.

With that being said, it's got to be something fundamentally that we are doing in practice to cause this. It's NOT a coincidence.

Incidentally the expert said that 20% don't recover from TJ surgery. We have 7 with TJ so I guess it's time to roll the dice and see who makes it back.

[missouridawg]

To me, the most frustrating part of our situation is that 4 or 5 of our surgeries occurred in the past 2 months, I believe. Which means we essentially lose 2 years of the player instead of just 1.

[Tbonewannabe]

To me, the most frustrating part of our situation is that 4 or 5 of our surgeries occurred in the past 2 months, I believe. Which means we essentially lose 2 years of the player instead of just 1.

It makes it even harder with the scholarship limits in baseball. You can't afford to have someone on your roster recovering. So if someone redshirts then they don't count toward the 35 man roster but is their scholarship still count towards the 11.7? whate

[Homedawg]

It makes it even harder with the scholarship limits in baseball. You can't afford to have someone on your roster recovering. So if someone redshirts then they don't count toward the 35 man roster but is their scholarship still count towards the 11.7? whate

If someone is on scholarship they count against the 35 period. They can redshirt but they still count. The only person that wouldn't count is a non scholarship guy that they redshirt. In our case we started the year w a 32 man roster in essence. Now we are down to 29. Subtract, marrero and that's 28. Self is hurt, presently, that's 27.

[ETDawg]

If someone is on scholarship they count against the 35 period. They can redshirt but they still count. The only person that wouldn't count is a non scholarship guy that they redshirt. In our case we started the year w a 32 man roster in essence. Now we are down to 29. Subtract, marrero and that's 28. Self is hurt, presently, that's 27.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Homedawg again.

[MarketingBully]

Well the culprit is gone. We are just dealing with the aftermath of it.

[fishwater99]

Well the culprit is gone. We are just dealing with the aftermath of it.

We hope he was the problem.. Are you sure.. Time will tell..

[preachermatt83]

Well the culprit is gone. We are just dealing with the aftermath of it.

Yup

[ShotgunDawg]

It will be interesting to see things go at Arkansas for Wes.

I'm curious if the problem wasn't necessarily Wes' system but maybe because we went from Butch's conservative system and immediately dove into Wes' aggressive system and then went back down Henderson's conservative system.

I'm curious if Wes being hired late in the year last year didn't give our pitchers time "work" into it. Maybe we were like an out of shape man that tried to run a marathon too fast. There's nothing wrong with running a marathon but running one before your ready could be problematic. The running one and backing the program all the way down to Henderson's style may not have helped either.

Just saying, let's keep an eye on Arkansas. Not just this year but long term. See if their TJs go up over the next 3-5 years or fall. I know that's boring, but it's the best perspective to view this if you actually want the best answer.

If you going to blame Wes, that's fine, but also admit that he came in at a funny time of year and followed a coach with a completely different style.

[MarketingBully]

It will be interesting to see things go at Arkansas for Wes.

I'm curious if the problem wasn't necessarily Wes' system but maybe because we went from Butch's conservative system and immediately dove into Wes' aggressive system and then went back down Henderson's conservative system.

I'm curious if Wes being hired late in the year last year didn't give our pitchers time "work" into it. Maybe we were like an out of shape man that tried to run a marathon too fast. There's nothing wrong with running a marathon but running one before your ready could be problematic. The running one and backing the program all the way down to Henderson's style may not have helped either.

Just saying, let's keep an eye on Arkansas. Not just this year but long term. See if their TJs go up over the next 3-5 years or fall. I know that's boring, but it's the best perspective to view this if you actually want the best answer.

If you going to blame Wes, that's fine, but also admit that he came in at a funny time of year and followed a coach with a completely different style.

They already have 3. We had a thread on this earlier.

[ShotgunDawg]

They already have 3. We had a thread on this earlier.

Campbell is the only legit one. McKinney has been hurt since high school and Scroggins doesn't count. He was a position player that was just a thrower with bad mechanics.

[Tbonewannabe]

It will be interesting to see things go at Arkansas for Wes.

I'm curious if the problem wasn't necessarily Wes' system but maybe because we went from Butch's conservative system and immediately dove into Wes' aggressive system and then went back down Henderson's conservative system.

I'm curious if Wes being hired late in the year last year didn't give our pitchers time "work" into it. Maybe we were like an out of shape man that tried to run a marathon too fast. There's nothing wrong with running a marathon but running one before your ready could be problematic. The running one and backing the program all the way down to Henderson's style may not have helped either.

Just saying, let's keep an eye on Arkansas. Not just this year but long term. See if their TJs go up over the next 3-5 years or fall. I know that's boring, but it's the best perspective to view this if you actually want the best answer.

If you going to blame Wes, that's fine, but also admit that he came in at a funny time of year and followed a coach with a completely different style.

Might be the case but Wes is like the trainer pushing the guy to run fast until he blows out his knee then can't run the marathon. Wes had to know how hard to push someone if you are going to use a somewhat dangerous training method.

[MetEdDawg]

Might be the case but Wes is like the trainer pushing the guy to run fast until he blows out his knee then can't run the marathon. Wes had to know how hard to push someone if you are going to use a somewhat dangerous training method.

He most likely pushed too hard. It's a delicate balance. I was using weighted balls with my 9th graders pre season. Starting having too many sore arms and elbows and their recovery times were getting longer so I cut them out and we did more weights instead. Arm problems went away. At the college level, you don't have the luxury of doing that kind of stuff because you have a vision of where kids need to be in your system and when you have a philosophy you subscribe to you rarely deviate from it.

I'm not sure if he planned on being here longer than one year when he took the job but I would imagine to catch up for lost time he probably pushed too much.

[Commercecomet24]

He most likely pushed too hard. It's a delicate balance. I was using weighted balls with my 9th graders pre season. Starting having too many sore arms and elbows and their recovery times were getting longer so I cut them out and we did more weights instead. Arm problems went away. At the college level, you don't have the luxury of doing that kind of stuff because you have a vision of where kids need to be in your system and when you have a philosophy you subscribe to you rarely deviate from it.

I'm not sure if he planned on being here longer than one year when he took the job but I would imagine to catch up for lost time he probably pushed too much.

I believe this is the best perspective. Wes didn't have these problems anywhere else he coached. Something definitely went wrong here though and its looking like he may have pushed to hard.

[Commercecomet24]

He most likely pushed too hard. It's a delicate balance. I was using weighted balls with my 9th graders pre season. Starting having too many sore arms and elbows and their recovery times were getting longer so I cut them out and we did more weights instead. Arm problems went away. At the college level, you don't have the luxury of doing that kind of stuff because you have a vision of where kids need to be in your system and when you have a philosophy you subscribe to you rarely deviate from it.

I'm not sure if he planned on being here longer than one year when he took the job but I would imagine to catch up for lost time he probably pushed too much.

I believe this is the best perspective. Wes didn't have these problems anywhere else he coached. Something definitely went wrong here though and its looking like he may have pushed to hard.

[HoopsDawg]

I believe this is the best perspective. Wes didn't have these problems anywhere else he coached. Something definitely went wrong here though and its looking like he may have pushed to hard.

It's possible he changed his coaching techniques after he left Dallas Baptist or maybe just a year b/f he left Dallas Baptist. Weighted ball training really started gaining traction the past couple of years.

[maroonmania]

Might be the case but Wes is like the trainer pushing the guy to run fast until he blows out his knee then can't run the marathon. Wes had to know how hard to push someone if you are going to use a somewhat dangerous training method.

Agreed, it Johnson's fault either way. If you bring in a new pitching methodology to a staff you are unfamiliar with then you have to use extreme caution. Like the guy said on BSR, if you start training a pitcher a different way then they are going to be using muscle forces in a different way and stress areas that might not have been used to stress previously. All of that has to be monitored by the new pitching coach into understanding the soreness a pitcher is feeling when asked to do different things than what he had been doing. Sounds to me like Wes just went full out with his style with no real thought of long term effects. And of course he got out of Dodge before most of the fallout occurred.

[NewDawg]

Agreed, it Johnson's fault either way. If you bring in a new pitching methodology to a staff you are unfamiliar with then you have to use extreme caution. Like the guy said on BSR, if you start training a pitcher a different way then they are going to be using muscle forces in a different way and stress areas that might not have been used to stress previously. All of that has to be monitored by the new pitching coach into understanding the soreness a pitcher is feeling when asked to do different things than what he had been doing. Sounds to me like Wes just went full out with his style with no real thought of long term effects. And of course he got out of Dodge before most of the fallout occurred.

Johnson found out early he was only here one year. When the guys worked out with weighted balls he was not with them thus some arm angles fall, no one watching for issues, no one talking to player, etc. Heard pretty straight Johnson only worked with the starting pitchers after he knew he was leaving. Go back and look at video of fall ball and then compare to spring - pitchers arm slots changed because of weighted balls and no one managing them. When issues begin in elbow pitchers start to lose control - probably why some of them started looking off last spring/summer before Velo started dropping. Another coach that utilizes weighted ball program said they are not meant to be used but 3-4 days a week and only for short term before season (4-6) weeks. This guys coaches at Texas Baseball Ranch in summer. No wonder we had so many go down. May have some more. It's hard for a pitcher to make the call - he may try all kinds of alternative treatments trying to avoid surgery.

[Todd4State]

Johnson found out early he was only here one year. When the guys worked out with weighted balls he was not with them thus some arm angles fall, no one watching for issues, no one talking to player, etc. Heard pretty straight Johnson only worked with the starting pitchers after he knew he was leaving. Go back and look at video of fall ball and then compare to spring - pitchers arm slots changed because of weighted balls and no one managing them. When issues begin in elbow pitchers start to lose control - probably why some of them started looking off last spring/summer before Velo started dropping. Another coach that utilizes weighted ball program said they are not meant to be used but 3-4 days a week and only for short term before season (4-6) weeks. This guys coaches at Texas Baseball Ranch in summer. No wonder we had so many go down. May have some more. It's hard for a pitcher to make the call - he may try all kinds of alternative treatments trying to avoid surgery.

If this is true then honestly both Wes and our S&C guy are at fault. Wes for not monitoring our S&C guy and our S&C guy for being ignorant and not going to Wes to check in and make sure things were right.

[hailstate17]

You guys realize that marze and ford never did anything for Johnson. Smith and James had there's done in February. You blaming that on Johnson? I think one of the big reasons is whoever the genius is that decides to send these guys to summer ball after they throw a lot of innings. A pitcher shouldn't throw in summer unless they got no innings that year. Pitching in fall, spring, and summer have more of a factor to me that Johnson and his weighted balls