BSR on Tommy John

[WinningIsRelentless]

The problem is travel baseball. We go to these large showcase tournaments to scout these pitchers. These guys literally may throw 80 pitches for one team one day take a day off and travel to another tournament and throw for another team the next day.

This stuff goes on from the time they are 9 or 10 now. They never stop.

[HoopsDawg]

The problem is travel baseball. We go to these large showcase tournaments to scout these pitchers. These guys literally may throw 80 pitches for one team one day take a day off and travel to another tournament and throw for another team the next day.

This stuff goes on from the time they are 9 or 10 now. They never stop.

1 every 3 years at other programs. Are we the only program recruiting travel ball players?

[hailstate17]

He either made up that stat, or it is skewed by northern teams. I guarantee you almost everyone in the sec has at least one guy out this year if not more

[Irondawg]

1 every 3 years at other programs. Are we the only program recruiting travel ball players?

No, but I'd be willing to guess the elite arms throw more than the lesser arms and it's a random guess but I'd think the southeast b/c of the better weather does more travel ball than some other areas.

Would be interesting to see its split out to top 100 RPI programs and regionally.

[Irondawg]

He either made up that stat, or it is skewed by northern teams. I guarantee you almost everyone in the sec has at least one guy out this year if not more

Heck just between us and ARK it's basically one per SEC team.

Also be curious to go back and see of the top 3 rounds of so MLB draft picks how many of the pitchers have needed TJ. Maybe go back 10 years.

[Cooterpoot]

The problem is travel baseball. We go to these large showcase tournaments to scout these pitchers. These guys literally may throw 80 pitches for one team one day take a day off and travel to another tournament and throw for another team the next day.

This stuff goes on from the time they are 9 or 10 now. They never stop.

Those are the kids that aren't playing legit travel ball. A legit organization doesn't allow that crap. Daddy ball chasing a trophy and a scholarship that'll never happen might do, but legit organizations don't allow their kids to do that.

[maroonmania]

He either made up that stat, or it is skewed by northern teams. I guarantee you almost everyone in the sec has at least one guy out this year if not more

Exactly, I have no doubt that pitchers are throwing too much over a calendar year and I have no doubt that travel ball contributes to the problem but none of that explains specifically what is happening with the MSU program because those are issues that impact every college program all over the country. Folks on here trying to use that as the sole issue and basically saying its a run of bad luck for us are missing the point. If we had 2 or 3 in a year THAT would be bad luck. When you have 7 or 8 then something specific is going on to exacerbate the problem and the most likely cause of the possible causes out there is or was the Wes Johnson coaching technique putting stress on arms.

[KB21]

Exactly, I have no doubt that pitchers are throwing too much over a calendar year and I have no doubt that travel ball contributes to the problem but none of that explains specifically what is happening with the MSU program because those are issues that impact every college program all over the country. Folks on here trying to use that as the sole issue and basically saying its a run of bad luck for us are missing the point. If we had 2 or 3 in a year THAT would be bad luck. When you have 7 or 8 then something specific is going on to exacerbate the problem and the most likely cause of the possible causes out there is or was the Wes Johnson coaching technique putting stress on arms.

Yep. 2-3 is a coincidence. 7-8 is not a coincidence. When you have that many injuries, you are doing something very wrong. A great analogy was used on the B&B show this AM. If you take a rubber band and stretch it to its max limit enough times, the band will break. This is mostly a wear and tear issue, but when you get an 18 year old kid and stress max velocity to him, something is going to happen and most of the time, that something isn't good.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Those are the kids that aren't playing legit travel ball. A legit organization doesn't allow that crap. Daddy ball chasing a trophy and a scholarship that'll never happen might do, but legit organizations don't allow their kids to do that.

Most of the elite teams bring in pitchers for each tournament and they aren't the same pitchers for each tournament,

[ETDawg]

If someone is on scholarship they count against the 35 period. They can redshirt but they still count. The only person that wouldn't count is a non scholarship guy that they redshirt. In our case we started the year w a 32 man roster in essence. Now we are down to 29. Subtract, marrero and that's 28. Self is hurt, presently, that's 27.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Homedawg again.

[BB30]

My guess it is a mix of a bunch of different variables. Some bad luck, some kids that were already headed towards TJ, overuse at a young age, and possibly a little bit of coaching involved. It sucks but hopefully we figure out what the issue is and get it fixed.

[Anonymous]

People like to put this on Wes but it seems like we've had a high number of TJ surgeries for a few years now, some of them before Wes got here. This year of abnormally high cases has really brought it to the spotlight but I'm not sure he is the culprit.

[Commercecomet24]

Those are the kids that aren't playing legit travel ball. A legit organization doesn't allow that crap. Daddy ball chasing a trophy and a scholarship that'll never happen might do, but legit organizations don't allow their kids to do that.

This is absolutely correct.

[NewDawg]

Agreed, it Johnson's fault either way. If you bring in a new pitching methodology to a staff you are unfamiliar with then you have to use extreme caution. Like the guy said on BSR, if you start training a pitcher a different way then they are going to be using muscle forces in a different way and stress areas that might not have been used to stress previously. All of that has to be monitored by the new pitching coach into understanding the soreness a pitcher is feeling when asked to do different things than what he had been doing. Sounds to me like Wes just went full out with his style with no real thought of long term effects. And of course he got out of Dodge before most of the fallout occurred.

Johnson found out early he was only here one year. When the guys worked out with weighted balls he was not with them thus some arm angles fall, no one watching for issues, no one talking to player, etc. Heard pretty straight Johnson only worked with the starting pitchers after he knew he was leaving. Go back and look at video of fall ball and then compare to spring - pitchers arm slots changed because of weighted balls and no one managing them. When issues begin in elbow pitchers start to lose control - probably why some of them started looking off last spring/summer before Velo started dropping. Another coach that utilizes weighted ball program said they are not meant to be used but 3-4 days a week and only for short term before season (4-6) weeks. This guys coaches at Texas Baseball Ranch in summer. No wonder we had so many go down. May have some more. It's hard for a pitcher to make the call - he may try all kinds of alternative treatments trying to avoid surgery.

[Todd4State]

Johnson found out early he was only here one year. When the guys worked out with weighted balls he was not with them thus some arm angles fall, no one watching for issues, no one talking to player, etc. Heard pretty straight Johnson only worked with the starting pitchers after he knew he was leaving. Go back and look at video of fall ball and then compare to spring - pitchers arm slots changed because of weighted balls and no one managing them. When issues begin in elbow pitchers start to lose control - probably why some of them started looking off last spring/summer before Velo started dropping. Another coach that utilizes weighted ball program said they are not meant to be used but 3-4 days a week and only for short term before season (4-6) weeks. This guys coaches at Texas Baseball Ranch in summer. No wonder we had so many go down. May have some more. It's hard for a pitcher to make the call - he may try all kinds of alternative treatments trying to avoid surgery.

If this is true then honestly both Wes and our S&C guy are at fault. Wes for not monitoring our S&C guy and our S&C guy for being ignorant and not going to Wes to check in and make sure things were right.

[NewDawg]

If this is true then honestly both Wes and our S&C guy are at fault. Wes for not monitoring our S&C guy and our S&C guy for being ignorant and not going to Wes to check in and make sure things were right.

I would agree. Sad thing is. I hear there may be two more battling elbow problems and trying different treatments. I'm not sure what to say about the hitting. I know we lost a lot of great guys. But we have got to find a way for some guys to get hits.

[Todd4State]

I would agree. Sad thing is. I hear there may be two more battling elbow problems and trying different treatments. I'm not sure what to say about the hitting. I know we lost a lot of great guys. But we have got to find a way for some guys to get hits.

The hitting is due to several factors- the biggest being inexperience, but there are others like recruiting and I think trying to adjust to Cann's style which is causing some of them to press and be overaggressive. I can explain the rationale behind it- but that doesn't mean it's acceptable for Mississippi State baseball. We should not have "young" teams as often as we do- freshmen and sophomores in the SEC usually doesn't lead to wins. We've also over relied on JUCO's and that has been very hit or miss- and if they miss, it causes huge holes in the lineup.

I'm glad we hired someone from LSU who has some MLB experience- those are two programs, if you consider MLB a program, that we should be emulating and should have been emulating the entire time. We sign these classes that are good on paper- and then MLB comes along and takes the 3-4 best ones. But instead of having another solid prospect ready to take that player's spot in the class, we go out and sign some JUCO guy. Cann needs to do a better job of evaluating the signability of our recruits and having better contingency plans in place if one of them signs than Cohen did. I don't expect to get all of our recruits in- but I do expect a higher percentage of them to come under Cann. And if they don't hopefully Cann has a better answer than some random JUCO OF from Texas. If we can do that and also start to retain more of our upperclassmen the hitting will improve.

[I seen it dawg]

I would agree. Sad thing is. I hear there may be two more battling elbow problems and trying different treatments. I'm not sure what to say about the hitting. I know we lost a lot of great guys. But we have got to find a way for some guys to get hits.

Doesn't surprise me. We just may not have many good hitters.

[Mjoelner34]

The hitting is due to several factors- the biggest being inexperience, but there are others like recruiting and I think trying to adjust to Cann's style which is causing some of them to press and be overaggressive. I can explain the rationale behind it- but that doesn't mean it's acceptable for Mississippi State baseball. We should not have "young" teams as often as we do- freshmen and sophomores in the SEC usually doesn't lead to wins. We've also over relied on JUCO's and that has been very hit or miss- and if they miss, it causes huge holes in the lineup.

I'm glad we hired someone from LSU who has some MLB experience- those are two programs, if you consider MLB a program, that we should be emulating and should have been emulating the entire time. We sign these classes that are good on paper- and then MLB comes along and takes the 3-4 best ones. But instead of having another solid prospect ready to take that player's spot in the class, we go out and sign some JUCO guy. Cann needs to do a better job of evaluating the signability of our recruits and having better contingency plans in place if one of them signs than Cohen did. I don't expect to get all of our recruits in- but I do expect a higher percentage of them to come under Cann. And if they don't hopefully Cann has a better answer than some random JUCO OF from Texas. If we can do that and also start to retain more of our upperclassmen the hitting will improve.

+1