Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Allegation #8 Head Coaches Responsibility

  1. #1
    Senior Member Lumpy Chucklelips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,281
    vCash
    3700

    Allegation #8 Head Coaches Responsibility

    I think folks are overlooking an important sentence and part of this allegation.

    Bjork...."Another Allegation that we will contest is number eight ? It is alleged that the head football coach violated head coach responsibility legislation. This allegation is not based upon personal involvement in violations by Coach Freeze but because he is presumed responsible for the allegation involving his staff that occurred between October 2012 and January 2016. Although we disagree, according to the NCAA, Coach Freeze has not rebutted the presumption that he is responsible for his staff?s actions. This is charged as a Level I violation."


    The Meriam-Webster dictionary defines rebutted, or rebut, as

    -to contradict or oppose by formal legal argument, plea, or countervailing proof. Remember that word, you will see it again.


    So what are people overlooking and exactly what does this mean for Freeze?

    First you have to look at NCAA Bylaw 11.1.1.1 itself, which states that a head coach is presumed to be responsible for the actions of all staff members who report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach. The head coach will be held accountable for violations in the program unless he or she can rebut the presumption of responsibility.

    Before the NCAA imposes an allegation that the head coach did not promote an atmosphere of compliance and monitor the activities of his or her staff, the NCAA has to investigate the violation, substantiate that a violation did occur, substantiate that a member of the athletics staff was involved and then decide whether the bylaw is appropriate to involve the head coach.

    In making this decision, the enforcement staff will consider all the facts, as well as information provided by the head coach and his counsel. Read that sentence again...

    So before the enforcement staff includes this allegation in the NOA, they have already talked to the head coach about the allegation and given him an opportunity to provide information to "rebut" the allegation.

    So when Bjork says they are going to fight this allegation, he really means that Freeze will try AGAIN to rebut it. They've done it once and it wasn't enough for them to take it out. You don't really think they're going to do it the second time around do you? And here's something else to think about...the COI will hear the second rebuttal from Freeze. But they already know the enforcement staff has heard all the facts and heard Freeze's first rebuttal and still left it in the NOA.

    So what's next?

    If the COI concludes that Freeze DID NOT satisfy his head coach responsibility obligations and did not promote an atmosphere of compliance and monitor the activities of his or her staff, the following could happen....

    Freeze could receive a show-cause and be suspended for up to an entire season for Level I violations and up to half of a season for Level II violations. The length of the suspension is determined by the Committee on Infractions and depends on the severity of the violation(s) committed, the level of the coach?s involvement and any other aggravating or mitigating factors identified in Bylaw 19.9.

    ...the level of the coach's involvement....wasn't HEY HUGH named in the first NOA as taking a booster on a recruiting trip with him? ....up to a season for level 1 violations and depending on their severity....how many did they have? 15 or so, I think. ...How severe? Did I read the number 15,000 with a $ sign in front of it? .....exactly how many coaches were involved in the first NOA? I think I remember about 4 names. And I'm not sure any of those were who Bjork was talking about today when he said, "We have concluded that a recently terminated staff member was personally involved in Level I violations while he was employed by our program". A recently terminated staff member represents "1" to me. Seems to me there were several more involved.

    So, in conclusion, I think ole Hugh is up shit creek if you ask me.

    Sorry...meant to link this if you were interested where my info came from.

    http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/fi...s-20160208.pdf

  2. #2
    Senior Member EngDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    GTHOM City
    Posts
    623
    vCash
    3102
    A few more weeks collecting their considerable salarys. That's all Hugh, Bjork, and co. can look forward to at this point.

    venit, vidimus, amisimus

  3. #3
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    13,179
    vCash
    4975
    If Freeze was under a court martial this would be dereliction of duty.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Thick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,502
    vCash
    4639
    Really good post with good research too. I don't see how he could possibly survive this, but I really don't understand why OM woukd waste their time and resources on a HC that is now damaged goods to say the least.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    146
    vCash
    3100
    If freeze were on the board of directors or was a CEO of a company he would go to bowtie prison

  6. #6
    Senior Member Perpetual Underachiever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    373
    vCash
    2631
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Chucklelips View Post
    I think folks are overlooking an important sentence and part of this allegation.

    Bjork...."Another Allegation that we will contest is number eight ? It is alleged that the head football coach violated head coach responsibility legislation. This allegation is not based upon personal involvement in violations by Coach Freeze but because he is presumed responsible for the allegation involving his staff that occurred between October 2012 and January 2016. Although we disagree, according to the NCAA, Coach Freeze has not rebutted the presumption that he is responsible for his staff?s actions. This is charged as a Level I violation."
    Incredible catch by you, but I interpret it a little differently. What I get from it is that the University disputes the charge, but Freeze does not...Making it appear the University has his back, while setting him up perfectly to become the sacrificial lamb he has always wanted to be. This would honestly be a brilliant move by the university. It builds trust with future head coach candidates by showing that the University will stand behind their man, and it gives Freeze his ideal out.

    Am I misreading something?

  7. #7
    Senior Member blacklistedbully's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,730
    vCash
    539554
    I think y'all are reading too much into this. Bjork clearly states, "according to the NCAA" Freeze did not rebut. The actual definition of rebut includes, "prove that an accusation is false". And he goes on to say they are looking forward to having another chance to "rebut" that allegation in front of the COI.

    To me, that's just Bjork saying the NCAA investigators didn't accept what Freeze said, so they, along with Freeze will try again when they have that COI hearing. Don't think there's anything Machiavellian in that statement.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    3,414
    vCash
    3200
    http://gridironnow.com/hugh-freezes-...nged-ole-miss/

    Funny how he was on top of things and in charge before becoming Sgt. Schultz.

    I have to set the tone. My assistants follow. And we all follow the plan I created for recruiting. We do not deviate."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Perpetual Underachiever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    373
    vCash
    2631
    Quote Originally Posted by blacklistedbully View Post
    I think y'all are reading too much into this. Bjork clearly states, "according to the NCAA" Freeze did not rebut. The actual definition of rebut includes, "prove that an accusation is false". And he goes on to say they are looking forward to having another chance to "rebut" that allegation in front of the COI.

    To me, that's just Bjork saying the NCAA investigators didn't accept what Freeze said, so they, along with Freeze will try again when they have that COI hearing. Don't think there's anything Machiavellian in that statement.
    FINE. I might as well take this off now...



    I still think this would be their best move. Publicly show support of your coach through the appeals process, with both parties fully aware that he will be taking the fall eventually.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jack Lambert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    misippi
    Posts
    13,643
    vCash
    2238605444
    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    If Freeze was under a court martial this would be dereliction of duty.
    But he wants us to think he was just Authorize Absence which falls under Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Basically a slap on the wrist.

  11. #11
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    15,091
    vCash
    3000
    Freeze is absolutely done. That is pretty obvious.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    521
    vCash
    4700
    OM is just waiting for the Show Cause so they don't have to pay Hugh Freeze his buyout. Maybe?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Lumpy Chucklelips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,281
    vCash
    3700
    Quote Originally Posted by Boodawg View Post
    OM is just waiting for the Show Cause so they don't have to pay Hugh Freeze his buyout. Maybe?
    This....plus how do you fight the LOIC if you fire your head coach? Doesn't firing your head coach qualify as admitting guilt? Vitter and Bjork are waiting on the NCAA to give them no other choice but to fire him.

  14. #14
    Senior Member fader2103's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,385
    vCash
    3116
    In Hugh's contract Cause for termination is " any material violation by Employee of any law, regulation, rule, bylaw, policy or constitutional provision of the United States, State of Mississippi, IHL, the University, THE NCAA, The sec or other athletic conference including any such violation that may have occurred prior to Employee's employment with the University. that in the reasonable and good faith judgement of the University reflects adversely upon the University or its Athletic Program.


    This mean UM or the IHL could terminate freeze without paying the rest of his contract.

  15. #15
    Senior Member starkvegasdawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Eye of the Storm
    Posts
    22,769
    vCash
    3275
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjoelner34 View Post
    http://gridironnow.com/hugh-freezes-...nged-ole-miss/

    Funny how he was on top of things and in charge before becoming Sgt. Schultz.

    I have to set the tone. My assistants follow. And we all follow the plan I created for recruiting. We do not deviate."
    Hey Hugh!

  16. #16
    Senior Member blacklistedbully's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,730
    vCash
    539554
    Quote Originally Posted by fader2103 View Post
    In Hugh's contract Cause for termination is " any material violation by Employee of any law, regulation, rule, bylaw, policy or constitutional provision of the United States, State of Mississippi, IHL, the University, THE NCAA, The sec or other athletic conference including any such violation that may have occurred prior to Employee's employment with the University. that in the reasonable and good faith judgement of the University reflects adversely upon the University or its Athletic Program.


    This mean UM or the IHL could terminate freeze without paying the rest of his contract.
    But Hugh knows where all the bodies are buried. The Network will take care of him.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Jack Lambert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    misippi
    Posts
    13,643
    vCash
    2238605444
    Quote Originally Posted by fader2103 View Post
    In Hugh's contract Cause for termination is " any material violation by Employee of any law, regulation, rule, bylaw, policy or constitutional provision of the United States, State of Mississippi, IHL, the University, THE NCAA, The sec or other athletic conference including any such violation that may have occurred prior to Employee's employment with the University. that in the reasonable and good faith judgement of the University reflects adversely upon the University or its Athletic Program.


    This mean UM or the IHL could terminate freeze without paying the rest of his contract.
    I doubt it. They hired him to cheat.

  18. #18
    Senior Member NYDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    144
    vCash
    2613
    Yeah, I don't see any way that Freeze can seriously argue that he "promoted an atmosphere of compliance and monitored the activities of his or her staff," when Barney was caught dead to rights...so much so that OM isn't even going to bother contesting the charges against him. Barney wasn't some rogue booster or work study student who had zero contact with Freeze; he was his right-hand-man when it came to recruiting, and he's the one staffer that Hugh regularly credited for their classes on signing day.
    Last edited by NYDawg; 02-23-2017 at 03:05 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    2,150
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual Underachiever View Post
    Incredible catch by you, but I interpret it a little differently. What I get from it is that the University disputes the charge, but Freeze does not...Making it appear the University has his back, while setting him up perfectly to become the sacrificial lamb he has always wanted to be. This would honestly be a brilliant move by the university. It builds trust with future head coach candidates by showing that the University will stand behind their man, and it gives Freeze his ideal out.

    Am I misreading something?
    Every employer IS responsible for the actions for his/her employers.....

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    2,150
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lambert View Post
    I doubt it. They hired him to cheat.
    How much of this mess was going on when Freeze was at OM the 1st time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Disclaimer: Elitedawgs is a privately owned and operated forum that is managed by alumni of Mississippi State University. This website is in no way affiliated with the Mississippi State University, The Southeastern Conference (SEC) or the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The views and opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the post author and may not reflect the views of other members of this forum or elitedawgs.com. The interactive nature of the elitedawgs.com forums makes it impossible for elitedawgs.com to assume responsibility for any of the content posted at this site. Ideas, thoughts, suggestion, comments, opinions, advice and observations made by participants at elitedawgs.com are not endorsed by elitedawgs.com
Elitedawgs: A Mississippi State Fan Forum, Mississippi State Football, Mississippi State Basketball, Mississippi State Baseball, Mississippi State Athletics. Mississippi State message board.