We just have to accept fact in recruiting

[Jarius]

We don't have an epic recruiting meltdown on a yearly basis. That is fan-driven. No, we don't recruit great in football. That's different from 'epic meltdown'.

And I don't think it has all that much to do with Starkville, and I don't think really anybody is saying that. It primarily has to do with our program history, our resource disadvantage in the SEC, our track record in producing consistent NFL talent, and our recruiting style.

The resource disadvantage is not as important in other sports because it doesn't exist to the same degree in other sports. Football is far and away the largest budget, and that is where the disparity is greatest.

2009 and 2015 are the only 2 years in the Mullen era where we haven't had this sort of thing happen. It's not fan driven. It's Dan Mullen driven. It's not resource driven. It's Dan Mullen driven. If he would simply hang on to the recruits that he has flip on him every year he would be ranked where MSU should expect to be ranked on a yearly basis. It's not like he has to go out and expand his recruiting footprint to California. He just needs to not shit the bed in January with guys that he already has committed to his program. He's a really good developer and we could do way worse. To try and make excuses for him when every other sport on campus recruits just fine is just making excuses. He should be getting better at recruiting since he is, you know, building the program and changing that perception but he isn't. He's not taking the on the field results and improving the recruiting with those results. If he continues to win 6-8 games a year I'm ok with that. I'm just not going to make an excuse for him and act like he is something that he isn't, or act like other coaches couldn't come here and recruit way better than Mullen has recruited.

[Todd4State]

We don't have an epic recruiting meltdown on a yearly basis. That is fan-driven. No, we don't recruit great in football. That's different from 'epic meltdown'.

And I don't think it has all that much to do with Starkville, and I don't think really anybody is saying that. It primarily has to do with our program history, our resource disadvantage in the SEC, our track record in producing consistent NFL talent, and our recruiting style.

The resource disadvantage is not as important in other sports because it doesn't exist to the same degree in other sports. Football is far and away the largest budget, and that is where the disparity is greatest.

Our football history is actually fairly comparable to our basketball history. We're not a powerhouse historically in basketball but yet Howland has loaded up on four stars and he even won a battle recently for Garrison Brooks. I'm pretty sure Dan wouldn't have even tried to get Brooks if the roles were reveresed. The guys we're landing now in basketball were in diapers when we went to the Final Four.

[Todd4State]

2009 and 2015 are the only 2 years in the Mullen era where we haven't had this sort of thing happen. It's not fan driven. It's Dan Mullen driven. It's not resource driven. It's Dan Mullen driven. If he would simply hang on to the recruits that he has flip on him every year he would be ranked where MSU should expect to be ranked on a yearly basis. It's not like he has to go out and expand his recruiting footprint to California. He just needs to not shit the bed in January with guys that he already has committed to his program. He's a really good developer and we could do way worse. To try and make excuses for him when every other sport on campus recruits just fine is just making excuses. He should be getting better at recruiting since he is, you know, building the program and changing that perception but he isn't. He's not taking the on the field results and improving the recruiting with those results. If he continues to win 6-8 games a year I'm ok with that. I'm just not going to make an excuse for him and act like he is something that he isn't, or act like other coaches couldn't come here and recruit way better than Mullen has recruited.

It's nice to see someone on this board that isn't a complete sheep.

[Dawg61]

It's nice to see someone on this board that isn't a complete sheep.

[HSVDawg]

Absolutely. And he has more resources than any State coach has ever had.

Unfortunately- we can't compare Mullen to Charlie Shira- we have to compare him to Saban, Yaw Yaw, Gus Bus, Sumlin, Bert, and Freezus.

You could make an argument, based on Mullen's body of work, that he is better than all of those coaches except Saban. Orgeron is a bit of a mystery due to small recent sample size, but if you include his OM tenure there is no way you can put him over Mullen. The problem then comes if / when A&M, Auburn, and Arkansas actually make legitimate hires to replace their current guys, who could realistically all be gone within the next year or two.

[Percho]

Come on, people are bitching after a recruit drops us for a different school. Should we be happy? Are we allowed to be upset that our best HS DL commit, (since April) from a school coached by a bulldog, and whom we hired their former coach, has now two weeks before signing day left our recruiting class.

The reason people are brining up the results, is because the inability to recruit high caliber athletes directly impacts the product on the field and is how we end up losing to South Alabama at freaking home.

What do you believe that we needed to do to keep Odom that has not been done?
Do you not think Dan Mullen understands that we need better players at all positions and is trying to get those players in a legal manner?

[Percho]

2009 and 2015 are the only 2 years in the Mullen era where we haven't had this sort of thing happen. It's not fan driven. It's Dan Mullen driven. It's not resource driven. It's Dan Mullen driven. If he would simply hang on to the recruits that he has flip on him every year he would be ranked where MSU should expect to be ranked on a yearly basis. It's not like he has to go out and expand his recruiting footprint to California. He just needs to not shit the bed in January with guys that he already has committed to his program. He's a really good developer and we could do way worse. To try and make excuses for him when every other sport on campus recruits just fine is just making excuses. He should be getting better at recruiting since he is, you know, building the program and changing that perception but he isn't. He's not taking the on the field results and improving the recruiting with those results. If he continues to win 6-8 games a year I'm ok with that. I'm just not going to make an excuse for him and act like he is something that he isn't, or act like other coaches couldn't come here and recruit way better than Mullen has recruited.

What do, you, believe he needs to do in order to hang on to those who are, "committed," whatever that means?

[Liverpooldawg]

Our football history is actually fairly comparable to our basketball history. We're not a powerhouse historically in basketball but yet Howland has loaded up on four stars and he even won a battle recently for Garrison Brooks. I'm pretty sure Dan wouldn't have even tried to get Brooks if the roles were reveresed. The guys we're landing now in basketball were in diapers when we went to the Final Four.

No its not, not even close. Come on man we have 6 SEC titles in basketball.

[lamont]

You could make an argument, based on Mullen's body of work, that he is better than all of those coaches except Saban. Orgeron is a bit of a mystery due to small recent sample size, but if you include his OM tenure there is no way you can put him over Mullen. The problem then comes if / when A&M, Auburn, and Arkansas actually make legitimate hires to replace their current guys, who could realistically all be gone within the next year or two.

There's no way in Hell you can say Mullen is better than Malzahn. Thats lunacy.

[Jarius]

What do, you, believe he needs to do in order to hang on to those who are, "committed," whatever that means?

He needs to keep Grantham as our one coach that doesn't have to be an ace recruiter and everyone else he has on staff needs to be as passionate about recruiting as Terrell Buckley. That won't get us to an Alabama level but at least we won't hear our flips saying someone else was "giving them more love". If I read that one more time I may vomit.

[HSVDawg]

There's no way in Hell you can say Mullen is better than Malzahn. Thats lunacy.

When you look at overall body of work compared to the resources available, you certainly could. Especially if you see Auburn's 2013 season for what it was....where they won 4 games with absolute million to one shot circus plays or last second drives. Throw that season out and you are left with a record that is not as good as Mullen's overall or SEC record. Anyway, it is definitely arguable, albeit certainly not definitive. Just about any Auburn fan you talk to in Alabama would trade Malzahn for Mullen in a second.

[lamont]

When you look at overall body of work compared to the resources available, you certainly could. Especially if you see Auburn's 2013 season for what it was....where they won 4 games with absolute million to one shot circus plays or last second drives. Throw that season out and you are left with a record that is not as good as Mullen's overall or SEC record. Anyway, it is definitely arguable, albeit certainly not definitive. Just about any Auburn fan you talk to in Alabama would trade Malzahn for Mullen in a second.

Malzahn has an SEC title and played for the NC...finished 2nd in the country
Malzahn earned a Sugar Bowl berth after rebuilding and filling the holes left by Chiz- who fell on his face once Malzahn left him. Yet Mullen's old boss keeps on rolling

And after earning that Sugar Bowl berth- in the same article that lists us as a team on the rise for 2017- it also lists Auburn. Auburn will be one of the 3 best teams in the SEC next year. Auburn fans are insane because they have to deal with Bama. Malzahn isnt going anywhere

[Dawg61]

He needs to keep Grantham as our one coach that doesn't have to be an ace recruiter and everyone else he has on staff needs to be as passionate about recruiting as Terrell Buckley. That won't get us to an Alabama level but at least we won't hear our flips saying someone else was "giving them more love". If I read that one more time I may vomit.

So he needs to fire everybody but Grantham & Buckley so we can average winning 1-2 more games a year? It's way more likely we will lose 1-2 more games and probably Dan Mullen by doing that than it is we will win 1-2 more games a year. We are never beating Saban and the 1 RAT team a year. 10 wins is our regular season ceiling 99 years outta 100. Doesn't matter what coach you bring in if you fire Mullen either. That ceiling won't ever get higher than that till Saban is gone. The Saban frustration is amazing. There needs to be a 30 for 30 just on it alone. Saban's Suicides.

[dawgday166]

So he needs to fire everybody but Grantham & Buckley so we can average winning 1-2 more games a year? It's way more likely we will lose 1-2 more games and probably Dan Mullen by doing that than it is we will win 1-2 more games a year. We are never beating Saban and the 1 RAT team a year. 10 wins is our regular season ceiling 99 years outta 100. Doesn't matter what coach you bring in if you fire Mullen either. That ceiling won't ever get higher than that till Saban is gone. The Saban frustration is amazing. There needs to be a 30 for 30 just on it alone. Saban's Suicides.

I won't argue this much except in this regard. Every year there a 4 low hanging teams we should go 3-1 against at a minimum IMO. We NEVER go anything but 2-2 against those teams except in 2014. And that year, we beat all but OM and they were the walking wounded when we played them. Should've been 5-1 agains the West.

We tend to beat the 2 really bad teams when we play them (although this year we beat what at the time what was a decent A&M team, just coming off a butt whupping by Bama tho).

[BrunswickDawg]

Malzahn has an SEC title and played for the NC...finished 2nd in the country
Malzahn earned a Sugar Bowl berth after rebuilding and filling the holes left by Chiz- who fell on his face once Malzahn left him. Yet Mullen's old boss keeps on rolling

And after earning that Sugar Bowl berth- in the same article that lists us as a team on the rise for 2017- it also lists Auburn. Auburn will be one of the 3 best teams in the SEC next year. Auburn fans are insane because they have to deal with Bama. Malzahn isnt going anywhere

And everyone - including lists like these-thought that Malzahn had an all world team with a Heisman Candidate QB in 2015, and a #6 preseason ranking. All that hype and talent and he was 7-6 and wound up with Sean White doing a Mike Hennig impersonation.

Malzahn caught lightening in a bottle with Cam. Then lucked into a lot of wins in '13. They will be no better in '17 than in '16.

[HSVDawg]

Malzahn has an SEC title and played for the NC...finished 2nd in the country
Malzahn earned a Sugar Bowl berth after rebuilding and filling the holes left by Chiz- who fell on his face once Malzahn left him. Yet Mullen's old boss keeps on rolling

And after earning that Sugar Bowl berth- in the same article that lists us as a team on the rise for 2017- it also lists Auburn. Auburn will be one of the 3 best teams in the SEC next year. Auburn fans are insane because they have to deal with Bama. Malzahn isnt going anywhere

Gene Chizik actually won a natty (1st in the country) and he was a terrible coach. Mark Helfrich duplicated Malzahn's accomplishment, also a terrible head coach. Anyone can have a one year wonder type season where everything goes right. From a sustainablity standpoint, Malzahn has been trending down. Nobody gives a damn about him making the Sugar Bowl because it is a diluted accomplishment compared to what it used to be when you can get there at 8-4 (how many times has Mullen been 8-4 or better?).

Auburn fans aren't all crazy. They are pissed because they have averaged less than 8 wins per season over the last 3 years, which is equivalent to averaging 5-6 wins per year at MSU.

[dawgday166]

Gene Chizik actually won a natty (1st in the country) and he was a terrible coach. Mark Helfrich duplicated Malzahn's accomplishment, also a terrible head coach. Anyone can have a one year wonder type season where everything goes right. From a sustainablity standpoint, Malzahn has been trending down. Nobody gives a damn about him making the Sugar Bowl because it is a diluted accomplishment compared to what it used to be when you can get there at 8-4 (how many times has Mullen been 8-4 or better?).

Auburn fans aren't all crazy. They are pissed because they have averaged less than 8 wins per season over the last 3 years, which is equivalent to averaging 5-6 wins per year at MSU.

Precisely ... hence 2014 and #1 for 5 weeks.

[Dawg61]

I won't argue this much except in this regard. Every year there a 4 low hanging teams we should go 3-1 against at a minimum IMO. We NEVER go anything but 2-2 against those teams except in 2014. And that year, we beat all but OM and they were the walking wounded when we played them. Should've been 5-1 agains the West.

We tend to beat the 2 really bad teams when we play them (although this year we beat what at the time what was a decent A&M team, just coming off a butt whupping by Bama tho).

Yup I won't argue that Dan is good for 1-2 turds a year and that doesn't include the annual Saban ass-whipping and the RAT ass-whipping. That puts us at 8-4. He averages 7.6 wins a year for us right now. Some years we will get to 9-10 wins. Some years we will only win 5-6 games. Every years we will get our ass handed to us by Saban & RAT. When's baseball season start again?

[HSVDawg]

Precisely ... hence 2014 and #1 for 5 weeks.

Somewhat of a bad example. We mostly beat the hell out of everyone on our schedule except Bama / OM. We were a pretty good team. We weren't bouncing 50 yard passes off of CB's hands for TD passes or combining a 100 yard missed field goal return for a TD with multiple missed field goals by our opponent in order to eek out victories and backdoor our way into the national title game. And we didn't have that kind of luck against our two big rivals like Auburn had against theirs. 2014 MSU would likely beat 2013 Auburn by multiple TD's.

[dawgday166]

Somewhat of a bad example. We mostly beat the hell out of everyone on our schedule except Bama / OM. We were a pretty good team. We weren't bouncing 50 yard passes off of CB's hands for TD passes or combining a 100 yard missed field goal return for a TD with multiple missed field goals by our opponent in order to eek out victories and backdoor our way into the national title game. And we didn't have that kind of luck against our two big rivals like Auburn had against theirs. 2014 MSU would likely beat 2013 Auburn by multiple TD's.

Agree with this. But also saying we caught everyone off guard, especially LSU and except maybe AU. The LSU team that played Bama later in the year would have been a tougher out than when we played them.

I'm also saying that we got pretty lucky that Dak, BMac, and Preston Smith all grew into the players they did grow into. BMac and Preston I believe (or at least 1 of them) are the reasons we never have 2* players on our commit lists anymore, cause the recruiting rankings missed "so badly" on those 2. So now if they commit to us they're automatically 3* (according to Rosebowl from back in 2014).

ETA: And I neglected to mention JRob, Day, & Beckwith and the players they became too.