We just have to accept fact in recruiting

[lamont]

This regime under Mullen- no matter what assistants we hire- is always going to be a 20-30 recruiter. After 8 years, we have all the evidence we need. OM is down and struggling so what happens? Do we lock the state of Mississippi down? No. Louisville and LSU are going to poach the top 10.

Why? Because of our pitch to recruits. We preach hard work, busting your ass, lunch pail mentality. We don't kiss much of those 18 year old asses. We don't do glitz or glam. That's all well and good in pro football- but when you are selling your program- you have to put as much lipstick on that pig as you possibly can. 18 year old kids don't want to hear about hard work and how nothing is going to be given to them. You have to lie and make promises you can't keep. Recruiting is just a dirty business.

We pull in some good players- but we will never have the depth or complete team necessary to do anything big. Mullen is Stands without the severe discipline problems and drama. And that's ok I guess. Climbing the SEC mountain is a lot harder in football than basketball.

[missouridawg]

Mullen is the anti-Stands... a great coach and developer, but average recruiter. Stands was bad at in-game coaching and developing his high end recruits.

[lamont]

Mullen is the anti-Stands... a great coach and developer, but average recruiter. Stands was bad at in-game coaching and developing his high end recruits.

I was talking from a results point. You knew Stands was never going to do anything big nationally- and we know Mullen is never going to win the SEC.

[ScottH]

Mullen is the anti-Stands... a great coach and developer, but average recruiter. Stands was bad at in-game coaching and developing his high end recruits.

Exactly.

[dawgday166]

Mullen is the anti-Stands... a great coach and developer, but average recruiter. Stands was bad at in-game coaching and developing his high end recruits.

Mullen's success with high end recruits and his in-game coaching ain't nuthin to write home about either.

ETA: Not sure why everyone always says he's a great coach either. He may be a good coach. If he were great we'd be finishing higher in the west every year than we do.

[Irondawg]

The pitch is fine if you think it will work on certain players. The issue is that we supposedly keep identifying guys who buy into the approach and then lose them very, very late in the game.

It's all speculation from our end, but if Mullen and Co. don't see trends developing as to the reasons why this keeps happening and figure out a way to stop them, it's all on them.

[BB30]

This regime under Mullen- no matter what assistants we hire- is always going to be a 20-30 recruiter. After 8 years, we have all the evidence we need. OM is down and struggling so what happens? Do we lock the state of Mississippi down? No. Louisville and LSU are going to poach the top 10.

Why? Because of our pitch to recruits. We preach hard work, busting your ass, lunch pail mentality. We don't kiss much of those 18 year old asses. We don't do glitz or glam. That's all well and good in pro football- but when you are selling your program- you have to put as much lipstick on that pig as you possibly can. 18 year old kids don't want to hear about hard work and how nothing is going to be given to them. You have to lie and make promises you can't keep. Recruiting is just a dirty business.

We pull in some good players- but we will never have the depth or complete team necessary to do anything big. Mullen is Stands without the severe discipline problems and drama. And that's ok I guess. Climbing the SEC mountain is a lot harder in football than basketball.

So you talk about the snow flake generation and how awful it is and that they need to toughen up yet you want to inflate their ego and tell them how great they are and continue down the same path? I personally don't want our coaches flat out lying to kids, they need to know that it is going to be hell going in and that they aren't guaranteed anything. Coaches can kiss a** and still tell the truth, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

I personally don't think that is the issue, I think the issue is effort on Dan's part. Let me state that I am pro Dan, but at some point your HC has to like recruiting, it is the lifeblood of a program at the end of the day. It doesn't matter if your assistants are great recruiters, eventually parents and kids want to know that the head man is and will be involved in the kid's life, not just using him to get the next best job.

You may can get away with not being that interested in recruiting at an Alabama or Ohio State and just have good assistants,(although Meyer and Saban are obviously great recruiters, look at the nose dive Florida recruiting has taken since Meyer left) but unfortunately here you can't get away with that. You have to sell the sh** out of Starkville and Mississippi State and accomplishing something special that has never happened here before. The fact that Lville is poaching guys in our state left and right is absurd. There is absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to out recruit them in our state, it is pathetic.

[travis]

Mullen's success with high end recruits and his in-game coaching ain't nuthin to write home about either.

ETA: Not sure why everyone always says he's a great coach either. He may be a good coach. If he were great we'd be finishing higher in the west every year than we do.

I'd say he's the best coach State has had since McKeen.

[Jarius]

The pitch is fine if you think it will work on certain players. The issue is that we supposedly keep identifying guys who buy into the approach and then lose them very, very late in the game.

It's all speculation from our end, but if Mullen and Co. don't see trends developing as to the reasons why this keeps happening and figure out a way to stop them, it's all on them.

This is what doesn't add up and makes it look like our staff gets really lazy late in the process. We continually have the same problem with people leaving us late in the process no matter how many different recruiters we have had under Mullen. It happens all the time. The pitch works in June and in February people bolt.

[dawgday166]

I'd say he's the best coach State has had since McKeen.

I probably wouldn't argue that point. Doesn't make him a great coach tho in today's climate.

[fader2103]

Now I remember when I was a junior and senior in high school. I didn't get any offers. I did get recruiting letters just because my name in the program had a JR. SR. beside it haha. I agree we need to make our program look sexy especially coming off many bowl appearances, #1 ranking a few years back, and we can make you succeed in the NFL, not just get there.

[ATTILLA THE DOG]

Mullen is a 6-6 coach and a poor recruiter,who struck gold with DAK and had two very good years.He has peaked at State(not calling for him to be fired) but it is what it is.We give him top 15-20 pay yet we dont get top 15-20 results,we could do better imo.

[dawgday166]

Results on the field are what matter most to me. 2018 -- if we finish worse than 3rd in west and we don't beat at least 4 west teams, then IMO it's time. And both offense and defense should be ranked in top 25 in almost all statistical categories. We got a hotshot O coordinator and a hotshot D coordinator. I definitely wanna see an offense in top 20 - 25.

[BB30]

Mullen is a 6-6 coach and a poor recruiter,who struck gold with DAK and had two very good years.He has peaked at State(not calling for him to be fired) but it is what it is.We give him top 15-20 pay yet we dont get top 15-20 results,we could do better imo.

He has won 9+ just as much as he has won 6 or less. Hell we went 9-4 his second season. Problem is if we get rid of Dan while he is still winning, we won't be able to throw the entire checkbook at a new guy. He will unfortunately have to lose a couple of years in a row for us to have a chance to land a decent coach. Perception is reality in some instances and our program is too big to be a stepping stone as a HC and not quite elite enough to be a place where you have an excellent chance of winning a NC. Any up and coming coach knows that they can stay where they are at a mid major win a bunch of games and make a jump to a USC, Bama, LSU, UF type program where they have a better chance to win a NC. If you look at our coaching history several of our most successful coaches were retreads at the end of their career, Sherrill etc. We got lucky with Mullen and I truly believe he thought he could come here and win the SEC, he was young, cocky, and arrogant but also busted his a** the first few years. I think he thought he would ride Dak's coat tails out of Starkville to a big time job and it didn't happen so he will have to refocus and win big if he wants to make a move. If he leaves for a Maryland type of job he will be starting over.

Best case scenario for us is he pulls something out of his a** gets us to an SEC championship or wins a major bowl, takes a big time job and proves you can win here. Otherwise we will have a hard time hiring a stud coach IMO. Any other way he leaves it will look bad for us. Most view him as a heck of a coach that has accomplished what nobody else has at State. If he loses people will think it just can't be done here and if we fire him they will think we are crazy and should lower our expectations.

[Really Clark?]

Mullen is a 6-6 coach and a poor recruiter,who struck gold with DAK and had two very good years.He has peaked at State(not calling for him to be fired) but it is what it is.We give him top 15-20 pay yet we dont get top 15-20 results,we could do better imo.

He also won 9 games with Relf and 8 with Tyler. It wasn't just Dak, who he developed. Throw out the first year setting up the program and he averages 8 wins a year for the last 7 years. He is better than a 6-6 coach

[BrunswickDawg]

This regime under Mullen- no matter what assistants we hire- is always going to be a 20-30 recruiter. After 8 years, we have all the evidence we need. OM is down and struggling so what happens? Do we lock the state of Mississippi down? No. Louisville and LSU are going to poach the top 10.

Why? Because of our pitch to recruits. We preach hard work, busting your ass, lunch pail mentality. We don't kiss much of those 18 year old asses. We don't do glitz or glam. That's all well and good in pro football- but when you are selling your program- you have to put as much lipstick on that pig as you possibly can. 18 year old kids don't want to hear about hard work and how nothing is going to be given to them. You have to lie and make promises you can't keep. Recruiting is just a dirty business.

We pull in some good players- but we will never have the depth or complete team necessary to do anything big. Mullen is Stands without the severe discipline problems and drama. And that's ok I guess. Climbing the SEC mountain is a lot harder in football than basketball.

Personally, I'm OK with that. Do we really want to be Ole Miss or Auburn? Cheat like mf's, have high drama surrounding our program at all times, have inconsistent seasons based on who gets jailed, quits, or gets processed? I don't. I don't have any illusions or delusions that begin able to challenge for an SEC title every year can be a reality. Go back and look at a lot of threads about our program prior to 2014 and you will see a lot of "7-8 wins on a consistent basis, 9 every few, and everything coming together for a run at 10 or more every 6-7 years and I'd be happy." Of course, that went out the window as soon as we challenged for the West in '14.

My check marks for the program are:
1) Are we a competitive team year in, year out?
2) Are we graduating our players?
3) Are we producing pros?
4) Are actions of our players/coaches/admin embarrassing us on the national stage?
5) Am I willing to put my time and money into travelling 10 hours to see the team or go to the closest away games when possible?

I could give two shits about where Mullen interviews, what our recruiting rankings are, or which prima donna HS kid turned us down as long as those things are being met. It's ****ing football, there is more to life.

[I seen it dawg]

We don't work hard enough at it. It's really very simple.

[lamont]

I'd say he's the best coach State has had since McKeen.

Absolutely. And he has more resources than any State coach has ever had.

Unfortunately- we can't compare Mullen to Charlie Shira- we have to compare him to Saban, Yaw Yaw, Gus Bus, Sumlin, Bert, and Freezus.

[dawgday166]

He has won 9+ just as much as he has won 6 or less. Hell we went 9-4 his second season. Problem is if we get rid of Dan while he is still winning, we won't be able to throw the entire checkbook at a new guy. He will unfortunately have to lose a couple of years in a row for us to have a chance to land a decent coach. Perception is reality in some instances and our program is too big to be a stepping stone as a HC and not quite elite enough to be a place where you have an excellent chance of winning a NC. Any up and coming coach knows that they can stay where they are at a mid major win a bunch of games and make a jump to a USC, Bama, LSU, UF type program where they have a better chance to win a NC. If you look at our coaching history several of our most successful coaches were retreads at the end of their career, Sherrill etc. We got lucky with Mullen and I truly believe he thought he could come here and win the SEC, he was young, cocky, and arrogant but also busted his a** the first few years. I think he thought he would ride Dak's coat tails out of Starkville to a big time job and it didn't happen so he will have to refocus and win big if he wants to make a move. If he leaves for a Maryland type of job he will be starting over.

Not entirely accurate. Throwing out bowl games he's had 2 - 5 win seasons, 2 - 6 win seasons, 3 - 8 win seasons and 1 - 10 win season.

[HancockCountyDog]

He also won 9 games with Relf and 8 with Tyler. It wasn't just Dak, who he developed. Throw out the first year setting up the program and he averages 8 wins a year for the last 7 years. He is better than a 6-6 coach

That 2010 team that won 9 had 7 NFL players on the defense 3 all pros. None of whom committed to Mullen. He deserves every inch of credit for developing Dak and especially Fitz who I don't think has as much raw material as Dak, but Dan has turned into an ALL SEC caliber QB.

In fact, if we could just have Dan develop QB's and run the offense, let someone else run the defense, and most importantly let someone else do the recruiting, we would have a top 15 program.