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Thread: Bonds and Clemens denied again.

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    Bonds and Clemens denied again.

    Pretty soon these steroird users are going to be seen touring with Pete Rose. Congrats to Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Ivan Rodriguez for making it.

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    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Chipper and andruw up next... good luck to 2 of my all time favorites

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    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parabrave View Post
    Pretty soon these steroird users are going to be seen touring with Pete Rose. Congrats to Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Ivan Rodriguez for making it.
    Pretty absurd that Bagwell and Pudge were elected and not Bonds and Clemens. All 4 of them were big users.
    At this point, it seems that Bonds and Clemens are being punished for being the best steroid era players and thus the face of the era while just as heavy users that weren't as good get a pass.
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    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Chipper and andruw up next... good luck to 2 of my all time favorites
    Hear,hear my good man! Chipper my all time favorite, he's first ballot for sure. Don't think Andruw gets in. Shame that his career petered out a little to early. He beat himself up running into fences and diving around and the injuries took their toll on his body. I know I'm old but Hank Aaron is my hr champ not bonds. Hank did it right and is a classy man!

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    Bagwell and Pudge both used PED's. But they weren't..... wait for it..... targets of the so called steroid investigation. I'd say Bagwell took HGH before Bonds or anyone else. Just like with politics, the media makes or breaks a person unless you take to twitter.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Pretty absurd that Bagwell and Pudge were elected and not Bonds and Clemens. All 4 of them were big users.
    At this point, it seems that Bonds and Clemens are being punished for being the best steroid era players and thus the face of the era while just as heavy users that weren't as good get a pass.
    The media has ruined the Hall of Fame and why they shouldn't be allowed to be the sole group that picks the inductees. They have no clue how hard it is to hit a ball or locate pitches for strikes with or without PEDs. They also have no clue how many guys they have inducted that have done things that aren't always above board.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RougeDawg View Post
    Bagwell and Pudge both used PED's. But they weren't..... wait for it..... targets of the so called steroid investigation. I'd say Bagwell took HGH before Bonds or anyone else. Just like with politics, the media makes or breaks a person unless you take to twitter.
    Yep. The media has given in to what Jose Canseco wanted and they have no clue that they did it. Bunch of morons.

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    Senior Member Reason2succeed's Avatar
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    Baseball is a joke.
    Death penalty or bust!!!***

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    Senior Member shoeless joe's Avatar
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    Screw Clemens and bonds...but since pudge and bagwell get in then I think eventually bonds and Clemens get in. Clemens PED use is why he did a lot of what he did, and why the astros beat the braves in 05 nlds. Bonds was a HOF player before using but how do you let him stand up there as the "home run champ" when it's an illegitimate record.

    The one that is really getting screwed with all of this is Fred mcgriff. Smoltz said it last nite...if your gonna reward the users then you definitely have to reward the guys with the numbers that didn't use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason2succeed View Post
    Baseball is a joke.
    No the hall of fame is a popularity contest joke. Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter ever.

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    Senior Member shoeless joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    No the hall of fame is a popularity contest joke. Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter ever.

    No he's not.

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    Senior Member BB30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeless joe View Post
    Screw Clemens and bonds...but since pudge and bagwell get in then I think eventually bonds and Clemens get in. Clemens PED use is why he did a lot of what he did, and why the astros beat the braves in 05 nlds. Bonds was a HOF player before using but how do you let him stand up there as the "home run champ" when it's an illegitimate record.

    The one that is really getting screwed with all of this is Fred mcgriff. Smoltz said it last nite...if your gonna reward the users then you definitely have to reward the guys with the numbers that didn't use.
    75% of the players during that era were on something. If it wasn't steroids or PED's it was AMPs ... Bottom line is Clemens and Bonds were and will always be two of the best to play the game. It is unfortunate, but I don't think they will ever get in. Dumb a*** shouldn't have gotten caught or shouldn't have used in the first place. Clemens was one of my favorite pitchers to watch growing up.

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    Baseball players have been using drugs to enhance their performance for decades. Before steroids, it was amphetamines and nobody holds a grudge against those players or keeps them out of the Hall.

    Seems kinda silly to single out Bonds, Clemens, McGwire for something lots of other Hall of Farmers did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    Baseball players have been using drugs to enhance their performance for decades. Before steroids, it was amphetamines and nobody holds a grudge against those players or keeps them out of the Hall.

    Seems kinda silly to single out Bonds, Clemens, McGwire for something lots of other Hall of Farmers did.
    Exactly. Amps are still used heavily. In the minor leagues there is one drug test a season. Most of that stuff is wiped under the table. Amps will get you a 50 game suspension. The test is supposed to be random but, you generally know when it is coming up and that stuff is in and out of your system pretty quick. Now once you have failed a test they will test that player at random. Most organizations have a 3 strike policy on the other substances and you never hear about people failing for those as they are wiped under the rug unless they fail 3 times which usually by the second you are cut unless you are a high $$/ big time prospect. They basically tell you that it is better if you fail for heroin than Amps because it can be handled internally and it doesn't hurt the organization's image.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeless joe View Post
    No he's not.
    Yes he is. Don't debate my opinion with me you'll lose every time.

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    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    I wish they would let them all use PED's. Would be much more exciting. The most fun I ever had watching baseball was during the steroid era.

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    FREE PETE ROSE

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    Senior Member shoeless joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg61 View Post
    Yes he is. Don't debate my opinion with me you'll lose every time.

    Please list the reason he is the greatest hitter ever.

    He was a great hitter no doubt...but his accomplishment that would put him at the top were ALL enhanced by steroid use. Therefore I cannot put him ahead of many guys that didn't use. Again, the bad part is he would already have been in on the first ballot if he never used. His inflated numbers wouldn't be as gawdy but he'd be thought of as a great all around player.

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    Senior Member BB30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    I wish they would let them all use PED's. Would be much more exciting. The most fun I ever had watching baseball was during the steroid era.
    Eh eventually a pitcher was going to get killed on the mound. It still could happen but there were balls exiting bats at 130+ MPH you don't see the exit velocities quite as high now. Most of the guys who were using were doing it to sustain their career and last longer. It did improve performance but it really helped them play longer more than anything. It may have helped Bonds hit for power but the dude could straight up rake regardless, It didn't improve his eyes and hands. Same with pitchers, it doesn't make you throw all that much harder but it allows you to carry your same velocity later into the ball game and recover quicker.

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    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB30 View Post
    Eh eventually a pitcher was going to get killed on the mound. It still could happen but there were balls exiting bats at 130+ MPH you don't see the exit velocities quite as high now. Most of the guys who were using were doing it to sustain their career and last longer. It did improve performance but it really helped them play longer more than anything. It may have helped Bonds hit for power but the dude could straight up rake regardless, It didn't improve his eyes and hands. Same with pitchers, it doesn't make you throw all that much harder but it allows you to carry your same velocity later into the ball game and recover quicker.
    Maybe. I just can't hardly watch baseball any more unless it's a state game. Sports are entertainment and that era was much more entertaining.

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