Sign and Place

[Dawg61]

I am curious how many of these sign and place guys end up actually playing for MSU and end up being worth 4 years of recruiting them? Anyone got any stats/details on this? How many have we signed and placed that never play here? How many have we signed and placed that end up playing somewhere else two years later? Seems like a giant waste of time and money on 90% of them which means the 10% that do work out better be all-sec type talents or the entire thing is once again a giant waste of time and money on dudes that are already showing you huge red flags when they can't qualify for college. If you're gonna sign jucos sign jucos that have proven they are worth it on the field at juco. If you're gonna sign high schoolers sign the ones that have proven they are worth it on the field AND HAVE QUALIFIED FOR COLLEGE. Don't sign guys with huge red flags saying they suck in the classroom and then you hope they don't suck in the classroom two years later oh and that they are actually still SEC talents two years later. I would even go as far as to say guys that can't qualify for college are also more likely to get in trouble off the field. Are sign and place guys worth it when you add it all up and subtract all the misses on sign and place guys? My theory is they aren't worth it by a big margin and we are much better off signing guys for college that have actually qualified to attend college. 2 cents. Rip it apart recruitniks.

[jumbo]

I think we have a pretty high success rate with guys we sign and actually place.

[Cooterpoot]

So you believe kids that aren't great students shouldn't have opportunities if they prove their worth in a juco, once they're possibly away from negative influences and have people helping them?
Juco kids are also generally more mature after a couple years.

[smootness]

What's the downside? You don't really have to recruit them much once they're in JUCO, and you don't have to take them 2 years later. They're mostly yours if you want them at that point. It's not like we've signed a bunch of them.

And here are some of the guys we've gotten going that route:
Donald Gray
Darius Slay
Justin Cox
Lashard Durr

And Dontea Jones and Kivon Coman went to prep school after we signed them the first time.

Now you give me your list of guys for whom it was just a waste.

[Dawg61]

Now you give me your list of guys for whom it was just a waste.

I despise college football recruiting that's why I am asking. Seems to me that we should just sign SEC talent jucos this year instead of waiting to see if they are going to qualify and be SEC talents two years down the road or just use those spots on high schoolers that have qualified. I like signing guys that play for us this year not ones that maybe will play for us two years later.

[1bigdawg]

I despise college football recruiting that's why I am asking. Seems to me that we should just sign SEC talent jucos this year instead of waiting to see if they are going to qualify and be SEC talents two years down the road or just use those spots on high schoolers that have qualified. I like signing guys that play for us this year not ones that maybe will play for us two years later.

Spoken like the Hevesy fan you are.

[Dawg61]

Spoken like the Hevesy fan you are.

I am not a Hevesy fan I am a Dan Mullen fan. Dan has made it clearly obvious he values Hevesy.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I despise college football recruiting that's why I am asking. Seems to me that we should just sign SEC talent jucos this year instead of waiting to see if they are going to qualify and be SEC talents two years down the road or just use those spots on high schoolers that have qualified. I like signing guys that play for us this year not ones that maybe will play for us two years later.

If you thought a guy was SEC caliber coming out of HS but didn't have the grades (Darius Slay, Justin Cox, Donald Gray) why wouldn't you want them 2yrs from now if they proved they could handle the education aspect seems like a no brainer. It's also probably less time & money used on a Juco prospect especially sign & place because the Juco coach knows his situation & the expectation for him to come back to MSU.

[Ari Gold]

This thread just Made the List ..

[Dawg61]

This thread just Made the List ..

You know where you can put that list

[Dawg61]

If you thought a guy was SEC caliber coming out of HS but didn't have the grades (Darius Slay, Justin Cox, Donald Gray) why wouldn't you want them 2yrs from now if they proved they could handle the education aspect seems like a no brainer. It's also probably less time & money used on a Juco prospect especially sign & place because the Juco coach knows his situation & the expectation for him to come back to MSU.

Tell me about the ones that haven't worked out

[smootness]

I despise college football recruiting that's why I am asking. Seems to me that we should just sign SEC talent jucos this year instead of waiting to see if they are going to qualify and be SEC talents two years down the road or just use those spots on high schoolers that have qualified. I like signing guys that play for us this year not ones that maybe will play for us two years later.

So you admit you know nothing about our recruiting but start a thread saying that part of our recruiting strategy needs to change? If you don't even know who the sign and place guys are, how can you judge whether or not it is worth it?

And the reason you sign and place is because you are virtually assured of getting that prospect 2 years later if you still want them. JUCOs know they will only continue to get sign-and-place guys if the college feel confident they can get them back in 2 years. So if other schools aren't offering a HS player because he won't qualify and you have room, it can be a great way to get a legit talent that you otherwise might not.

I gave you a list of guys it has worked out for. It's a pretty good list, and that's just since Mullen has been here. It has proven to be a pretty good strategy. Offering a guy you don't really want just because he's going to qualify is not a good strategy.

[smootness]

Tell me about the ones that haven't worked out

That's your responsibility. You started the thread.

And there aren't many. We don't sign-and-place that many guys.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Tell me about the ones that haven't worked out

Shaq Perry - Quit before playing 1 game. So no time or money wasted

Ravien Pierce - Not technically a sign & place because we didn't place him at his Juco but 1 that was lost

Deshon Cooper - MSU moved on after seeing him play in Juco

Jordan Harris - Another kid who never played a game if I recall correctly. No time or money wasted

As you can see it's not that much work or effort on these guys. There's literally no downside. If they play well & stick it's great. If they don't play well we can always not recruit them back. Ravian Pierce is the only 1 we've truly lost

[Dawg61]

So you admit you know nothing about our recruiting but start a thread saying that part of our recruiting strategy needs to change? If you don't even know who the sign and place guys are, how can you judge whether or not it is worth it?

And the reason you sign and place is because you are virtually assured of getting that prospect 2 years later if you still want them. JUCOs know they will only continue to get sign-and-place guys if the college feel confident they can get them back in 2 years. So if other schools aren't offering a HS player because he won't qualify and you have room, it can be a great way to get a legit talent that you otherwise might not.

I gave you a list of guys it has worked out for. It's a pretty good list, and that's just since Mullen has been here. It has proven to be a pretty good strategy. Offering a guy you don't really want just because he's going to qualify is not a good strategy.

I started the thread so I can learn brother. It's something that's been bothering me about sign and place guys for awhile. I said it SEEMS like a giant waste of time and money to me so I start the thread so I can find out information. There you go again nitpicking my wording and getting it twisted.

[HSVDawg]

What's the downside? You don't really have to recruit them much once they're in JUCO, and you don't have to take them 2 years later. They're mostly yours if you want them at that point. It's not like we've signed a bunch of them.

And here are some of the guys we've gotten going that route:
Donald Gray
Darius Slay
Justin Cox
Lashard Durr

And Dontea Jones and Kivon Coman went to prep school after we signed them the first time.

Now you give me your list of guys for whom it was just a waste.

Was a waste with Ravian Pierce and likely will be a waste with Emmitt Gooden. And JJ Grant (lol).

Still batting over .500 though. Juice seems to be worth the squeeze.

[Dawg61]

Shaq Perry - Quit before playing 1 game. So no time or money wasted

Ravien Pierce - Not technically a sign & place because we didn't place him at his Juco but 1 that was lost

Deshon Cooper - MSU moved on after seeing him play in Juco

Jordan Harris - Another kid who never played a game if I recall correctly. No time or money wasted

As you can see it's not that much work or effort on these guys. There's literally no downside. If they play well & stick it's great. If they don't play well we can always not recruit them back. Ravian Pierce is the only 1 we've truly lost

Thank you, I just really hate signing guys you don't see on the field for 2-3 more years or really I just hate seeing those guys listed as signees. I want a list for every team of guys that will play for the schools the next year that doesn't include guys that don't qualify. It's another example of how recruiting rankings are flawed imo.

[FISHDAWG]

bump ... this is kinda fun

[smootness]

I started the thread so I can learn brother. It's something that's been bothering me about sign and place guys for awhile. I said it SEEMS like a giant waste of time and money to me so I start the thread so I can find out information. There you go again nitpicking my wording and getting it twisted.

You offered an opinion, you didn't just ask a question.

[smootness]

Was a waste with Ravian Pierce and likely will be a waste with Emmitt Gooden. And JJ Grant (lol).

Still batting over .500 though. Juice seems to be worth the squeeze.

I don't think we really wasted any more than we would have had they just not committed out of HS. And I'm also not sure we actually placed either Pierce or Gooden.