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    Senior Member Reason2succeed's Avatar
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    Peer Pressure

    I don't know how many posters on here are parents but I am. How can you try to teach your children about not responding to peer pressure while at the same time wanting our program to do what the "big boys" are doing? We are literal watching the demise of OM's football program but there are still people on here that insist that we need to "play the game".

    Mullen is not perfect. No coach is. But we have been able to rise to the highest level ever in the history of our program and we have done it relatively clean and without "mistakes". Why would you jeopardize that for one or two players that may or may not even pan out? We cannot give in to peer pressure especially now that OM will be looking for anything they can do to drag us down with them.
    Death penalty or bust!!!***

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    Senior Member EngDawg's Avatar
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    Why we can do what UM does:

    1. UM got caught. The punishment they receive will determine to what degree this affect an AD's decision to cheat or not. I think most AD's will think twice about cheating once UM is dealt with. (I.e. You can get caught cheating, but is the punishment mild so that it is worth cheating anyway, or is the punishment severe enough to make cheating not worth the risk)

    2. The "Big boys" can get away with a bit more because they are the "big boys". (I.e. They have power and influence and nobody blinks an eye when they get loads of five stars because they are expected to get loads of five stars anyway.

    3. We don't have the local media in our pockets; just the opposite

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason2succeed View Post
    We are literal watching the demise of OM's football program but there are still people on here that insist that we need to "play the game".
    You have 1,592 posts and have almost 2.5 years on this board. Have you not yet identified the idiots?

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    Senior Member Reason2succeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taog Redloh View Post
    You have 1,592 posts and have almost 2.5 years on this board. Have you not yet identified the idiots?
    What can I say? I'm just holding out hope...
    Death penalty or bust!!!***

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    We DID do what they are doing, and--in fact--we got way more return on investment for it when we were moments away from a conference title. And yes, it set out program back a decade like it probably will theirs at some point. Thanks for the memories, but I'm ok with where we are at the moment if that is the alternative.

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    Senior Member Reason2succeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pollodawg View Post
    We DID do what they are doing, and--in fact--we got way more return on investment for it when we were moments away from a conference title. And yes, it set out program back a decade like it probably will theirs at some point. Thanks for the memories, but I'm ok with where we are at the moment if that is the alternative.
    Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

    So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.
    Last edited by Reason2succeed; 08-23-2016 at 10:11 PM.
    Death penalty or bust!!!***

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    Senior Member M.Fillmore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason2succeed View Post
    ....it has taken us 10 years to recover from the incompetency of Larry Templeton.
    FIFY
    The Plantation has never won an SEC regular season Championship in ANY men's sport with an integrated team. That defines irrelevance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Fillmore View Post
    FIFY
    Food for thought. Experienced Atlanta with State. Peerless just to much and our QB went down late. Next year at Bammer the holding call that did not happen-there as well. Then all hell breaks loose. The Croom years with back-to-back Bammer wins-was there. Difference is Bammer got talent and State gets portions of that. Hell, Cam Newton damn near was a melt down and he went to Auby. Finbaum was the one that tried to tourch us to protect Auby during the magic season. Bottom line, we are not the elite program we would like to be and the press ain't gonna let it happen. Short answer is stay on the straight and narrow. One misstep=media frenzy with no pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Fillmore View Post
    FIFY
    Exactly. LT and Croom are solely responsible for the lost decade from 2001 to 2009. They did way more damage than any NCAA sanctions possibly could have. Other than the one year postseason ban for 2004 when we went 3-8 anyway, the sanctions weren't all that severe as I recall.
    Last edited by HSVDawg; 08-24-2016 at 12:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason2succeed View Post
    Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

    So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.
    Since I was "very" involved in the Sherrill years, let me say that we were never close to doing the things that UNM has been doing. We got slammed more because of hiring Sherrill than what we were doing. Note that I did not say we were slammed because of the things we got caught for. The NCAA, with the assistance of private detectives and the official NCAA investigators getting "special assistance" from ZenaReb, among others, never found anything significant. Speaking with some authority, the things that did happen were nothing compared to the current documented things for UNM.

    Now the Tyler era is a different story. We were guilty as could be, but they could not find anything but one discount that was arguably not a violation and they nailed us for what they believed we were doing, rightly in that case.

    However, even that paled in comparison with what the school up north has been doing over the last few years. In their case, when they say "mistakes were made," what they mean is that they made mistakes in getting caught for some of the more minor things they have been doing. To equate it to the Tyler era, we were caught for arguably doing something minor and got harshly punished for what we were really doing. If the NCAA were to comparably punish them for the combination of what they have been caught doing and what they have been really doing, they would have to reapply for NCAA membership in ten years.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason2succeed View Post
    Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

    So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.
    Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

    Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.

    Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

    But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

    And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.

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    Amen and Amen Todd!

    Excellent points. Agree 100%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most ?memorable? wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

    Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie?s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn?t have the benefit of ?we?ve never won like this before? as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn?t going to cut it anymore.

    Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that?s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn?t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

    But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That?s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

    And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990?s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.

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    Last edited by spbdawg; 11-27-2018 at 10:46 AM.

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    Senior Member msbulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

    Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.

    Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

    But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

    And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.
    We better be keeping our nose clean beginning yesterday. Mississippi is already pissed and even though they no there are others responsible for their current problems, MSU is the only one they can truly reach out and hurt. I assure you they are already planning their retribution against us. So we need to give Bracky a raise and mind our P's & Q's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msbulldog View Post
    We better be keeping our nose clean beginning yesterday. Mississippi is already pissed and even though they no there are others responsible for their current problems, MSU is the only one they can truly reach out and hurt. I assure you they are already planning their retribution against us. So we need to give Bracky a raise and mind our P's & Q's.
    Planning? hahaha! I can guarantee you the bearsharks have put a few PI's kids through college recently.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.

    Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.

    Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.

    But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.

    And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.
    Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.
    Those call in shows after those games were cringe worthy to listen to. The Arkansas State tie, loss to Northeast Louisiana (ULM), Memphis running us out of Davis Wade. I'll never forget after the Louisiana Tech loss sitting on Hwy 12 listening to the post game show. Someone asked Jackie on air if he would think about resigning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.
    Yup. I am enjoying Mullen's consistency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.
    I'll give you that 93 and 95 were bad. I remember those years even though I'd rather forget them. But 96 wasn't terrible. We beat Alabama and shut out OM in Oxford. The week before Alabama, we missed what would have been a game winning field goal against UK in Lexington and also lost a heartbreaker to Arkansas in OT the week after. If schedules were then like they are today, we would have had an extra fluff nonconference game in there somewhere that would have gotten us to 6-6 and bowl eligible. That team was realistically comparable to Mullen's 2011 and 2013 teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason2succeed View Post
    Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.

    So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.
    It didn't take us 10 years to recover from Sherrill. It took us a couple of years to recover from Templeton.

    Also, when comparing Sherrill and Dan, you have to remember to decrease Mullen's win total by one each year to account for a 12 game schedule with a FCS opponent. So adjusting to Sherril's era, Mullen would have basically gone 4-7, 7-4, 5-6, 7-4, 5-6, 9-2, 7-4.

    For comparison, the Kang went 7-4, 7-4, 4-5-2, 8-3, 3-8, 5-6, 7-4 in his first seven years. Then he followed that up by winning 8, 9, and 7 regular season wins before retiring and letting an interim coach handle 2001 through 2003, with Crooms taking over in 2004.

    So Mullen had a little bet better run than Sherrill for his first 7 years after inheriting a worse situation and facing a tougher SECW. Mullen matching sherrils 8, 9, and 10th year would require that he basically average 9 regular season wins a year. The only reason I don't think it's likely he'll do that is because of OLine recruiting, which could put a pretty low ceiling on us this year and next year.

    ETA: that's not intended to say that Mullen hasn't done a great job. I'm just pointing out that comparing win totals between Mullen and Sherrill doesn't work.

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