Old Venice closing in Starkville

[Mjoelner34]

I've wondered lately how Columbus has gotten all these big time chains in lately while Starkville missed out. I'm really surprised that the old Wasson's Fish House building has been vacant all these years. To me that would be a prime location for a place to go in like a Golden Corral or something.

Same here. I remember just after the bypass opened I heard that Starkville was getting a Cracker Barrel and a Logan's or Longhorn Steakhouse out where the car dealership (which I think is now a church) is located. Meanwhile, a Logan's and a Cracker Barrel opened last year in Columbus and we still just have a church operating out of a defunct car dealership.

I also heard that the Neon Pig in Tupelo was expanding to Oxford (already up and running) and Columbus. No mention of Starkville.

Does anyone have any updates on the Holiday Inn at The Mill that is supposed to have an Azlin's Steakhouse in it?

[Johnson85]

There was one on the coast. And all restaurants margins are incredibly small. That's why it's one of the most volatile businesses there is. The reason most mid to high level chains don't do Starkville is because of the studies they do. Starkvilld has the population but a lot of that is student or university employed which means there isn't a ton of money folks. They want X amount of people over a medium household income.

Now in a college town that's a little misleading because there are a lot of unemployed students who spend s bunch of money. i think a good blue plate restaurant would crush. Or a small plate concept. When you look at the square in Oxford, it's not chains. It's locally owned places where the owners are OM folks who are invested in the community.

I mean margins on each meal are small. When it's all said and done, almost all restaurants end up with small margins (<3%), but usually the margin they make on each meal goes up with the price of the average ticket so that more expensive, sit down restaurants can get by with doing lower volume. The Bonefish on the coast was in a good location and used to do a lot of volume with it being normal to see crowds waiting outside. Maybe their business dried up as more restaurants came in after Katrina, but Bonefish shut down a lot of restaurants at once (of which the Coast was one), which makes me think that their margins are smaller than other equivalent chains, as all the ones I've seen stay busy.

[MSUDawg99]

Same here. I remember just after the bypass opened I heard that Starkville was getting a Cracker Barrel and a Logan's or Longhorn Steakhouse out where the car dealership (which I think is now a church) is located. Meanwhile, a Logan's and a Cracker Barrel opened last year in Columbus and we still just have a church operating out of a defunct car dealership.

I also heard that the Neon Pig in Tupelo was expanding to Oxford (already up and running) and Columbus. No mention of Starkville.

Does anyone have any updates on the Holiday Inn at The Mill that is supposed to have an Azlin's Steakhouse in it?

Pinelake Church is what you're talking about in the car dealership. Hard to beat Chip Henderson (MSU alum) as far as a preacher goes. I go to the one in Gluckstadt & have visited the one in Stark when in town. It's packed out wall to wall for both services.

I don't know about a Holiday Inn at the Mill but I know the Courtyard Marriott there is open. Not sure the ETA on the Steakhouse.

[starkvegasdawg]

It just pisses me off that Columbus gets all these places and Starkville gets a frigging Denny's. And what has to be one of the worst Denny's in the history of Denny's. I refuse to set foot in the one here again. I ate there 4 times. Average wait time to get food was usually 30-45 minutes and has been over an hour. The last time I went there my wife's chicken was still raw and cold on the inside and there was something unidentifiable in her tea. I've noticed when I drive by there now I usually see maybe 2-3 cars there during peak meal times. I seriously doubt they will be open much longer.

[Taog Redloh]

Starkville needs population. If people are there with the money to spend, the restaurants will come with it. This isn't rocket science. Instead of wondering how to get restaurants in here, we need to be worrying about how to attract big ass companies like Yokohama or whatever. Or to get more people to the Air Force Base. And.....we need more development between Starkville and Columbus as to make it one big metro area, along with West Point.

[Mjoelner34]

Starkville needs population. If people are there with the money to spend, the restaurants will come with it. This isn't rocket science. Instead of wondering how to get restaurants in here, we need to be worrying about how to attract big ass companies like Yokohama or whatever. Or to get more people to the Air Force Base. And.....we need more development between Starkville and Columbus as to make it one big metro area, along with West Point.

We have 4 nice industries out at GTR now and most of the people that work at those places who were not already Golden Triangle residents move to the Caledonia/Columbus area. I know this discussion was had on here last week or a couple of weeks ago but if you ask them why move there instead of Starkville, 9 out of 10 will tell you 'schools' and/or 'real estate prices'.

[Taog Redloh]

We have 4 nice industries out at GTR now and most of the people that work at those places who were not already Golden Triangle residents move to the Caledonia/Columbus area. I know this discussion was had on here last week or a couple of weeks ago but if you ask them why move there instead of Starkville, 9 out of 10 will tell you 'schools' and/or 'real estate prices'.

That's fine by me. Just move to the general area and I'm good. Lot of room for growth at GTR, I hope it happens.

Starkville does seem to have a catch-22 going on. High real estate prices but without the corresponding benefits of that.

[Johnson85]

Now in a college town that's a little misleading because there are a lot of unemployed students who spend s bunch of money. i think a good blue plate restaurant would crush. Or a small plate concept. When you look at the square in Oxford, it's not chains. It's locally owned places where the owners are OM folks who are invested in the community.

Starkville definitely needs some more local places, but some of this is still perception that stems from not all of the places being close together. When I was in school, Oxford basically had City Grocery that was good, AJAX which was good, then a lot of restaurants that weren't solid but nothing special (Old Venice, Pearl Street Pasta, Downtown Grille, etc.), and they actually didn't have good dive college places (probably Abners, handy andy's, and the pizza place I can't remember the name of were closest). Starkville easily could have replicated their restaurants except they didn't have anything particularly high end (Veranda was probably the best, nicer restaurant), and it didn't have a bunch of moderate to high priced restaurants that were mediocre (instead Starkville had chains like Ruby Tuesday's), and Starkville had better dive restaurants (Stromboli's, Cotton District Deli, Lil Dewey's/Petty's, etc). Basically the only advantage Oxford had was having a really nice restaurant, and some more expensive restaurants with not so good food. Part of this was because they had more people willing to blow money, but part of it was that they did a good job of not supporting chain restaurants, so there wasn't as much competition to local places. I think Chile's didn't come there until sometime in the mid early 2000's and that was there first "fast casual" chain or whatever they're called.

Starkville is still not going to support a lot of high end places unless they are really good, but I think Starkville could definitely support some more local places in the moderate price range. It's just made more difficult because a lot of the crappy chains are going to draw some business and I assume they still have a lot of competition from dirt cheap but good food.

ETA: Another advantage I think Oxford has had is that they have had several long standing restaurants in prime locations. I'm not sure if they own the buildings or if their landlord has just been extremely reasonable about not trying to jack up rents on them to match their popularity. There are plenty of new places that pop up and disappear presumably in part because of high rents, but they at least have some continuity. I'm not sure Starkville is ever going to have that in the Cotton district.

[Taog Redloh]

Starkville needs a Bonefish Grill type of seafood place. Except local.

A sit-down dinner type of place is hard to come by in a small town. Unless it's an extremely specific niche.

[MadisonDawg]

I forgot about 2 brothers. Their smoked wings are outstanding. It's certainly not your typical bbq joint though.
Tried to go there yesterday actually, but they aren't open for lunch, or are only open for lunch certain days.

Thursday-Sunday, at least that is what it will be until august when students are back.

[BeastMan]

I mean margins on each meal are small. When it's all said and done, almost all restaurants end up with small margins (<3%), but usually the margin they make on each meal goes up with the price of the average ticket so that more expensive, sit down restaurants can get by with doing lower volume. The Bonefish on the coast was in a good location and used to do a lot of volume with it being normal to see crowds waiting outside. Maybe their business dried up as more restaurants came in after Katrina, but Bonefish shut down a lot of restaurants at once (of which the Coast was one), which makes me think that their margins are smaller than other equivalent chains, as all the ones I've seen stay busy.

I'm pretty well versed on the restaurant bizz. Sure higher check average places might make more per plate but they also have higher costs that make it almost even out so they need to do volume more than anyone. Sure a bonefish might make a little more per check but they also have a 2.5+ million dollar building to pay for while Little Duey doesn't. I'll give you one more example. The tables and chairs at a bonefish place are outrageous expensive and the expectation to keep them tip top is higher (no cracks in the seat etc...). Little Dueys tables and chairs are still way more than you think but it's a fourth the cost and they can be more lax and reupholstery and whatnot. Don't even get me started on upkeep on kitchen equipment... What most people that just eat in restaurants don't understand is the price you pay for your meal isn't just the food cost marked up. It's the labor to prep and cook your food. It's the server that brings it to you. It's a fuel surcharge on your delivery. It's the lights you sit under. It's the water bill. It's the building and it's upkeep etc...I say all that to say that the margin a mid to high end chain isn't that much different than a small joint. There is a variance between a buffet and Shapley's but that's apples to oranges.

[BrunswickDawg]

I'm pretty well versed on the restaurant bizz. Sure higher check average places might make more per plate but they also have higher costs that make it almost even out so they need to do volume more than anyone. Sure a bonefish might make a little more per check but they also have a 2.5+ million dollar building to pay for while Little Duey doesn't. I'll give you one more example. The tables and chairs at a bonefish place are outrageous expensive and the expectation to keep them tip top is higher (no cracks in the seat etc...). Little Dueys tables and chairs are still way more than you think but it's a fourth the cost and they can be more lax and reupholstery and whatnot. Don't even get me started on upkeep on kitchen equipment... What most people that just eat in restaurants don't understand is the price you pay for your meal isn't just the food cost marked up. It's the labor to prep and cook your food. It's the server that brings it to you. It's a fuel surcharge on your delivery. It's the lights you sit under. It's the water bill. It's the building and it's upkeep etc...I say all that to say that the margin a mid to high end chain isn't that much different than a small joint. There is a variance between a buffet and Shapley's but that's apples to oranges.

And that concludes this week's episode of "Beastman's Kitchen Impossible"....

In all seriousness - this is spot on. I've worked in restaurants enough and have a few friends who own them. That is enough to scare me away from ever wanting to own one.

[TimberBeast]

I'm pretty well versed on the restaurant bizz. Sure higher check average places might make more per plate but they also have higher costs that make it almost even out so they need to do volume more than anyone. Sure a bonefish might make a little more per check but they also have a 2.5+ million dollar building to pay for while Little Duey doesn't. I'll give you one more example. The tables and chairs at a bonefish place are outrageous expensive and the expectation to keep them tip top is higher (no cracks in the seat etc...). Little Dueys tables and chairs are still way more than you think but it's a fourth the cost and they can be more lax and reupholstery and whatnot. Don't even get me started on upkeep on kitchen equipment... What most people that just eat in restaurants don't understand is the price you pay for your meal isn't just the food cost marked up. It's the labor to prep and cook your food. It's the server that brings it to you. It's a fuel surcharge on your delivery. It's the lights you sit under. It's the water bill. It's the building and it's upkeep etc...I say all that to say that the margin a mid to high end chain isn't that much different than a small joint. There is a variance between a buffet and Shapley's but that's apples to oranges.

So what you are saying, is that raising the minimum wage of all employees at restaurants would cause no problems to their finances, and actually be a boom to the economy everywhere? Sounds like a no brainer**************

[Bothrops]

Is there a weekly publication that keeps one up to date on all the restaurant revolving door shit that goes on in Vegas? I can't keep up with what's there, what's gone, and what's about to be gone. Jesus Christ, man!

[HereComesTheSpiral]

It just pisses me off that Columbus gets all these places and Starkville gets a frigging Denny's. And what has to be one of the worst Denny's in the history of Denny's. I refuse to set foot in the one here again. I ate there 4 times. Average wait time to get food was usually 30-45 minutes and has been over an hour. The last time I went there my wife's chicken was still raw and cold on the inside and there was something unidentifiable in her tea. I've noticed when I drive by there now I usually see maybe 2-3 cars there during peak meal times. I seriously doubt they will be open much longer.

Columbus is more accessible from 82 and has a larger middle and working class that can afford to go out due to industries and the Air Force base.

[PSYCHO(thesis)DEFENSE]

Does anyone have any updates on the Holiday Inn at The Mill that is supposed to have an Azlin's Steakhouse in it?

As mentioned the Courtyard Marriot is up and running. It has a Starbucks with very limited hours.

As far as I know Azlins will not be coming to The Mill. The Mill is currently advertising the availability of a restaurant pad so I'm guessing something fell through. But their sign is still up in the Chick Fil A Plaza so who knows. I assume the developer will be pretty picky about what goes there as I think they want to cater to the businesspeople and conference attendees that frequent The Mill.

[Bothrops]

I'm a little surprised nothing has been announced to go in at the Mill by now. Seems like there's a lot of apprehension. Looks like it would be advantageous to have something up and running by the time football season and fall semester started.

[Steakonastick]

Wasn't azlins supposed to be the restaurant in the holiday inn that fell through?

[BeardoMSU]

I'm a little surprised nothing has been announced to go in at the Mill by now. Seems like there's a lot of apprehension. Looks like it would be advantageous to have something up and running by the time football season and fall semester started.

It doesn't help the roads surrounding that place are like what you would expect to find in Berlin circa 1945....I about blew out a tire driving on that road connecting to the Jimmy Johns strip today. The place just feels empty too, even though there is a hotel there.

[ScottH]

And what has to be one of the worst Denny's in the history of Denny's.

And that is a title that is hard to achieve.