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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #121
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    I still think Howland Reed ends up at Winterfell. He would be the only person other than Bran that would know Jon's actual parents except maybe the nurse maids. Any chance the show held something back for GRRM to release in the books if they could get released before next April? They already unveiled the meaning of Hodor and the Tower of Joy but could they have purposefully left out something for GRRM to have a big moment in the books? I know GRRM has said that Hodor doesn't go down exactly the same but the meaning is the same, just unveiled differently. I imagine as a writer to have these things "spoiled" for you does suck. Even though the Tower of Joy was the worst secret ever, he did spend over a decade developing his books to get that reveal. I hope the Winds of Winter at least goes into more depth and maybe we get Lyanna's whole conversation.

  2. #122
    Senior Member War Machine Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    I still think Howland Reed ends up at Winterfell. He would be the only person other than Bran that would know Jon's actual parents except maybe the nurse maids. Any chance the show held something back for GRRM to release in the books if they could get released before next April? They already unveiled the meaning of Hodor and the Tower of Joy but could they have purposefully left out something for GRRM to have a big moment in the books? I know GRRM has said that Hodor doesn't go down exactly the same but the meaning is the same, just unveiled differently. I imagine as a writer to have these things "spoiled" for you does suck. Even though the Tower of Joy was the worst secret ever, he did spend over a decade developing his books to get that reveal. I hope the Winds of Winter at least goes into more depth and maybe we get Lyanna's whole conversation.
    Fat Bastard doesn't give a damn. He's too busy raking in the cash from the TV show and doing everything except writing the books. And it's his own f'n fault he hasn't stayed ahead of the show. When you take a 10-15 year hiatus between books, the obsessed fans will analyze every damn word and bit of punctuation. That's why R + L = J was an awful secret. Fat Bastard started something he wasn't that interested in finishing.

    As for the book/tv thing, we've discussed this 100 times. It's been made abundantly clear by both Fat Bastard and the producers that the books and tv have diverged significantly. They're getting to the same endgame, but "how" they get their is fairly different. I linked an article discussing that in this thread a few pages back. I think the grave theory is more likely to happen in the books than on TV, and I'm good with that. Howland could pop up in the TV show to tell "Jon" or he could find out from Bran.

    Here's a great article about GRRM asking Stephen King how he writes so fast. King tells Fat Bastard: Just write. Make yourself do it. Fat Bastard is too lazy to comprehend the idea you have to force yourself to write.
    It's the roller coaster of hope that this program keeps us on that makes it hell being a State fan. - CadaverDawg, 10/15/22


  3. #123
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg View Post
    Fat Bastard doesn't give a damn. He's too busy raking in the cash from the TV show and doing everything except writing the books. And it's his own f'n fault he hasn't stayed ahead of the show. When you take a 10-15 year hiatus between books, the obsessed fans will analyze every damn word and bit of punctuation. That's why R + L = J was an awful secret. Fat Bastard started something he wasn't that interested in finishing.

    As for the book/tv thing, we've discussed this 100 times. It's been made abundantly clear by both Fat Bastard and the producers that the books and tv have diverged significantly. They're getting to the same endgame, but "how" they get their is fairly different. I linked an article discussing that in this thread a few pages back. I think the grave theory is more likely to happen in the books than on TV, and I'm good with that. Howland could pop up in the TV show to tell "Jon" or he could find out from Bran.

    Here's a great article about GRRM asking Stephen King how he writes so fast. King tells Fat Bastard: Just write. Make yourself do it. Fat Bastard is too lazy to comprehend the idea you have to force yourself to write.
    I think GRRM has so many things he likes to do that the books weren't "the most important thing" for him. I think this season was the first one he didn't write an episode. He usually wrote 1 or 2 episodes a season and it was usually one of the most important episodes. It seems like I read once that Stephen King sits down and writes something pretty much every day whether it is good or just shit to be thrown away. It is like a muscle that the more you use it, the faster it is.

    It will be interesting to read the books and see if GRRM tries to come up with something just to make it different. I know he has said he is doing something in the books that the show can't do since the person is dead in the show. I am just ready for the books since I am tired of just talking in circles about the show. I do wish BulldogBear would watch the show since he has great theories. I started to read the books again but I just can't seem to stick with it. Those first books seem to drag on forever.

  4. #124
    Senior Member War Machine Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    I think GRRM has so many things he likes to do that the books weren't "the most important thing" for him. I think this season was the first one he didn't write an episode. He usually wrote 1 or 2 episodes a season and it was usually one of the most important episodes. It seems like I read once that Stephen King sits down and writes something pretty much every day whether it is good or just shit to be thrown away. It is like a muscle that the more you use it, the faster it is.

    It will be interesting to read the books and see if GRRM tries to come up with something just to make it different. I know he has said he is doing something in the books that the show can't do since the person is dead in the show. I am just ready for the books since I am tired of just talking in circles about the show. I do wish BulldogBear would watch the show since he has great theories. I started to read the books again but I just can't seem to stick with it. Those first books seem to drag on forever.
    If you'll read the article I linked, that's exactly what King tells GRRM. He says he writes 3-4 hours every single day and hopes to produce 5-6 "fairly clean" pages. Then GRRM asks him some stupid question about if he ever writes a sentence or two, thinks it's complete trash, questions his talent, checks his email, and wonders if he ever should be writing. King tells GRRM nope, you just gotta write.

    Basically, GRRM won't let the editing process be his friend and can't write through the terrible stuff. He gets frustrated and quits too easily instead of forcing his way through. And that's why it takes him 5+ years between books instead 1-2 like it should take. Plus he supposedly doesn't get much done during football season because he's a huge fan. Seems like I've read that somewhere before, at least. So that's 3-4 months out of the year where little gets done. Then factor in trips to tv production, various comic cons, etc. - he just doesn't know how to get stuff done. And at this point, it's probably not changing. I'll be shocked if we get TWOW before 2018. And A Dream of Summer might be 2025 or later.

    Bear, if you're reading, come back and talk to us! You can't get pissy and wait a decade on Fat Bastard to finish the books he apparently isn't that interested in anymore. We need some quality discussion instead of talking in circles about the same stuff!
    It's the roller coaster of hope that this program keeps us on that makes it hell being a State fan. - CadaverDawg, 10/15/22


  5. #125
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg View Post
    If you'll read the article I linked, that's exactly what King tells GRRM. He says he writes 3-4 hours every single day and hopes to produce 5-6 "fairly clean" pages. Then GRRM asks him some stupid question about if he ever writes a sentence or two, thinks it's complete trash, questions his talent, checks his email, and wonders if he ever should be writing. King tells GRRM nope, you just gotta write.

    Basically, GRRM won't let the editing process be his friend and can't write through the terrible stuff. He gets frustrated and quits too easily instead of forcing his way through. And that's why it takes him 5+ years between books instead 1-2 like it should take. Plus he supposedly doesn't get much done during football season because he's a huge fan. Seems like I've read that somewhere before, at least. So that's 3-4 months out of the year where little gets done. Then factor in trips to tv production, various comic cons, etc. - he just doesn't know how to get stuff done. And at this point, it's probably not changing. I'll be shocked if we get TWOW before 2018. And A Dream of Summer might be 2025 or later.

    Bear, if you're reading, come back and talk to us! You can't get pissy and wait a decade on Fat Bastard to finish the books he apparently isn't that interested in anymore. We need some quality discussion instead of talking in circles about the same stuff!
    I never thought about this but do you think because the show is going to finish his story first that he is just losing interest? It has been said that the ending is the same so we will know the end of the books before he even starts writing the last book.

  6. #126
    Senior Member BulldogBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg View Post
    Ho. Lee. Shit. I've never thought of that angle. We all assume that Jon was an only child and Lyanna forced Ned to raise Jon as his own, because she knew Robert would kill any child of Rhaegar's, even if it was her child as well. But who the hell would a twin be? Certainly not Dany. It's very much established she's Rhaegar's sister. And there's no one floating around with any of the classic Stark physical features that seems to be important. You also would have to assume Howland Reed took the other kid and dropped it off with a different noble family. But there's no hint of an unexplained adoption or bastard for the important houses, other than Jon. We need Bear to weigh in on this theory. It's making my mind hurt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    The popular twin theory is that it is Meera. Ned takes one kid and Howland Reed the other.
    If this is true, then Meera was raised as Howland Reed's daughter. I don't think he dropped the twin off anywhere else. Like Leia she remains "completely anonymous." In ADWD, Melissandre has a vision in which Jon's sister is riding a horse to the wall. Was it Meera? At the end of ADWD, I believe of course that Jojen, aka Howland Reed is about to die and spills the truth to Meera about her true parentage and her brother Jon. Could be why Meera was absent at the end of ADWD along with Jojen?

    Remember, I'm going off the books and the assumption that the show is not necessarily to be believed as far as storyline goes. Like others have said maybe just the endgame. It would be like somebody telling you after Vicksburg and Gettysburg that the North would win the Civil War and that Lee would surrender at Appomattox but telling you nothing else. Then asking you to fill in the gap with your own storyline. So, "the show is dead to me!" Screw you GRRM.
    The Liberation will not be televised--- when it arrives like lightning in the skies!

  7. #127
    Senior Member BoomBoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg View Post
    If you'll read the article I linked, that's exactly what King tells GRRM. He says he writes 3-4 hours every single day and hopes to produce 5-6 "fairly clean" pages. Then GRRM asks him some stupid question about if he ever writes a sentence or two, thinks it's complete trash, questions his talent, checks his email, and wonders if he ever should be writing. King tells GRRM nope, you just gotta write.

    Basically, GRRM won't let the editing process be his friend and can't write through the terrible stuff. He gets frustrated and quits too easily instead of forcing his way through. And that's why it takes him 5+ years between books instead 1-2 like it should take. Plus he supposedly doesn't get much done during football season because he's a huge fan. Seems like I've read that somewhere before, at least. So that's 3-4 months out of the year where little gets done. Then factor in trips to tv production, various comic cons, etc. - he just doesn't know how to get stuff done. And at this point, it's probably not changing. I'll be shocked if we get TWOW before 2018. And A Dream of Summer might be 2025 or later.

    Bear, if you're reading, come back and talk to us! You can't get pissy and wait a decade on Fat Bastard to finish the books he apparently isn't that interested in anymore. We need some quality discussion instead of talking in circles about the same stuff!
    King wrote a book a while back that was basically about himself. he would "bank" entire books, so that if something happened he could just dip into the "bank" and send his editor a book on schedule. he's a writing freak, it's not fair to compare him to GRRM.

    i think he just doesn't have to truly work anymore, and ASOIAF has turned into work. he just doesn't want to do it anymore. but he's in denial about the change, he keeps thinking his productivity will match the past, that's why he keeps missing deadlines. he keeps telling himself he won't have to buckle down, the writing will come. but it won't, for him to finish he's going to have to work hard at it. and at this point i don't think he ever will. we'll get WoW, because it has to be near done now, but i doubt we'll ever see aDoS.

  8. #128
    Senior Member BulldogBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    I still think Howland Reed ends up at Winterfell. He would be the only person other than Bran that would know Jon's actual parents except maybe the nurse maids. Any chance the show held something back for GRRM to release in the books if they could get released before next April? They already unveiled the meaning of Hodor and the Tower of Joy but could they have purposefully left out something for GRRM to have a big moment in the books? I know GRRM has said that Hodor doesn't go down exactly the same but the meaning is the same, just unveiled differently. I imagine as a writer to have these things "spoiled" for you does suck. Even though the Tower of Joy was the worst secret ever, he did spend over a decade developing his books to get that reveal. I hope the Winds of Winter at least goes into more depth and maybe we get Lyanna's whole conversation.
    Where does that information come from. I ask because I hope you misunderstood whatever the source meant. Frankly, although I haven't watched the scene of course, I hope that all this mystery and build up hasn't led up to something as anti-climactic as 17ing "Hold the Door!" One old Norse diety of Winter was called "Hod" and sometimes spelled as "Hodr." And it is pronounce with a long "O," like Hode or Hoder. That being a source for GRRM's inspiration is something I've always assumed. If you speak in an old English accent (think middle ages after Anglo-Saxon invasion of England but before coming of Normans) saying the word "Other" could sound a lot like saying "Hodor" especially if you drop the "H." This is much better and creepier, like "Other" is a misinterpretation or bastardization of the word Hodor. In this theory they aren't actually called the "Others." They are the "Hodors," as in that maybe that's the name of R'hollor's opposite number...as in they are "Hodor's." And after centuries of getting it wrong they have come to be called "Others." That makes a much better source. Now, it would need to be something traumatic in Walder's past that involving the Others that caused his disorder. Well, then being accosted by a bunch of them might work!!!!
    The Liberation will not be televised--- when it arrives like lightning in the skies!

  9. #129
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulldogBear View Post
    Where does that information come from. I ask because I hope you misunderstood whatever the source meant. Frankly, although I haven't watched the scene of course, I hope that all this mystery and build up hasn't led up to something as anti-climactic as 17ing "Hold the Door!" One old Norse diety of Winter was called "Hod" and sometimes spelled as "Hodr." And it is pronounce with a long "O," like Hode or Hoder. That being a source for GRRM's inspiration is something I've always assumed. If you speak in an old English accent (think middle ages after Anglo-Saxon invasion of England but before coming of Normans) saying the word "Other" could sound a lot like saying "Hodor" especially if you drop the "H." This is much better and creepier, like "Other" is a misinterpretation or bastardization of the word Hodor. In this theory they aren't actually called the "Others." They are the "Hodors," as in that maybe that's the name of R'hollor's opposite number...as in they are "Hodor's." And after centuries of getting it wrong they have come to be called "Others." That makes a much better source. Now, it would need to be something traumatic in Walder's past that involving the Others that caused his disorder. Well, then being accosted by a bunch of them might work!!!!
    At this point I think you would be better suited to finish the books than GRRM. You have better ideas than what we are probably getting in the books.

  10. #130
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    Just watched Blackhawk Down, Jamie Lanister won the MOH in that battle, unfortunately post humorously, but I guess GOT occurred several millennia prior.

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