Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)

[Political Hack]

I liked how they played up the first order as an analogy to the first reich/ eventual natzi Germany.

Kylo being a major puss was a turn off for me. That was the only major disappointment though from me. Plus, they are set to "finish his training" now. He should be a supreme bad ass come episode 8. Other than that, I too felt like I was watching episode 4 again. They used damn near the exact same plot line and just introduced new twists to it. It was very simple, but it worked well.

Loved the new characters. all of them. Also loved the old characters still being involved. I thought it appealed to the old fans and newer generation too. Rea is a bad ass. Wasn't sure a female Jedi could play the role of standing up to Kylo, but she did it and did it well.

The comedic relief through the droids and Fin was also great. I hated the cheesiness of Jar Jar. It was awful and damn near ruined the that whole movie.

Episode 8: The First Order Strikes Back???

[mstatefan91]

The Jedi were in control of the force. There was no balance between good and evil. Anakin turning to the dark side made it balanced. The prophecy was true. They just misread it.

Not really. Seeing as he helped track down all of the jedi, murdered them, and the dark side was the only thing going for like 30 years. That's not balance.

[War Machine Dawg]

Not really. Seeing as he helped track down all of the jedi, murdered them, and the dark side was the only thing going for like 30 years. That's not balance.

Lucas himself said the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin killed Palpatine and ultimately died himself. The Sith were no more, for however brief a period of time. Thus, he fulfilled the prophecy. Now we're getting the distinction between Sith and Dark Jedi. I'm excited to see where they take it.

[Todd4State]

I think it's the sub plots that set it apart. Remember, A New Hope and Return of the Jedi are basically the same arc as well. Disable shields, take out death star.

I will say that they followed the original recipe to a T. I think that was done on purpose to get people to realize what Star Wars wad intended to be originally. It will diversify and make itself stand out as an original story line as the movies go I think (2 more to do so).

I want to know more about Rey's background. There is obviously more to it. Something tells me she's related to one of the new storm troopers. I'm not sure though.

Again, good movie. Need to see it again. First impression is they were trying to set the foundation.

I think they stuck to "what works" because of all the fanboys out there that railed on the PT. Not a bad idea- they actually kind of spun off of the EU which I wished that they hadn't done where Han and Leia have a child (Jacean- I HATE that name I think because it sounds like some Ole Miss frat boy) who turns to the Dark Side. Not that I disliked the story-I just would have liked to have seen something new that hadn't been thought of before. At least they named Han and Leia's son Ben instead of Jacean- so I could live with it at least. I'm not a fanboy that gets his underoos in a wad because of silly little things. I really enjoyed the movie overall.

I am about 90% sure that Rey is Luke's daughter, 8% sure it's Han and Leia's daughter, and 2% sure she is something that is neither. The thing that no one is talking about with her is the connection between her and Lor Son Tekka, Max Von Sydow's character who gets murdered at the beginning by Kyle Ren. No is talking about him- but I think he is going to end up being extremely important. He knows who Kyle Ren is, he knows his background and who his parents are, and Luke trusted him enough to safeguard the missing piece of the map to the original Jedi temple. But not a lot is said about him. I don't think it's a coincidence that he and Rey just happen to be on the same planet. My guess is Lor Son Tekka was supposed to kind of watch over Rey sort of like Obi Won Kenobi watched over Luke until "the time came".

My guess is Rey was abandoned after Kylo Ren destroyed Luke's new Jedi order and Luke knew that he had to hide her so that she wouldn't be killed or turned to the Dark Side. I think Rey is going to ultimately end up having to confront Kylo Ren again and Luke is going to confront Supreme Leader Snoke, who I think is probably Darth Plageius in some grand finale in Episode IX.

If Rey is Luke's daughter, that means that Luke has a significant other. And I wonder who that could be? Probably someone we haven't been introduced yet unless it's something way out there. If that theory is true, then Luke might have felt that his new Jedi Order was destroyed in part because of him having a significant other (Jedi no no) which might explain another reason for abandoning his daughter and going into seclusion.

Also, how in the hell did Poe Dameron escape from Jakku? One minute it looks like he abandons Finn and then the next thing you know he shows up with a squad of X-Wing fighters at Maz Kanata's castle.

But yes, GREAT movie and I enjoyed it.

[Todd4State]

I believe that flashback could be Luke leaving her there, and her fighting to go with him. Either way, the trailer with Luke saying that the force is strong with his family. His father had it, he has it, his sister has it, and his kids have it. Plus that would make Kylo and Rey 1st cousins about the same age.
As a bonus, I believe the storm trooper Fin also has the force with him. No other way he could hang with a jedi in a light saber fight if he didn't. Reflexes would be too slow.

I am wondering, Han said something about Luke going to find the first Jedi temple. Maybe there is a being like the Dark Supreme Leader, but for good. I am going to make a leap here, but what if the Supreme Leader guy killed the "Light Supreme being" and that disruption in the force is what caused Anakin to be born. Luke, Leia, Rey, and Kylo being as powerful as a team as the supreme leader guy? No idea, just wondering about he timing of the birth of Anakin versus all of this.

I think Snoke is Darth Plageius because he allegedly learned how to cheat death, and was probably at least a little pissed off that Palpatine tried to kill him to rule the universe. I think he let Palpatine do his dirty work and if he had killed off all of the Jedi was going to come out of hiding and kill Palpatine himself and take over. And then Luke kind of messed all that up....

So Snoke then went after Ben Solo and seduced him to the Dark Side and Plageius is going to have to do all the work himself for the most part. I think Luke is going to have to learn how to cheat death or find some way to destroy him using the Force or something like that.

[Todd4State]

Loved it. I'll be honest, I think the prequels catch too much flak sometimes. Yes, they had their really shitty moments. But they had their good points, too, and no one wants to acknowledge them. That said, TFA absolutely nailed it. This is the movie fans have been wanting. JJ & crew delivered.

I think Rey is either a Solo or a Skywalker. There are hints in both directions. I loved the various nods to the past and the EU. The revelation of Kylo actually being Ben Solo was the highlight of the film to me.

Don't know why so many of you disliked the choreographed saber battles from the prequels. For me, they were far and away the best feature of those films, especially the final fight between Anakin/Vader & Obi-wan. It was the height of the Jedi at their peak, trained in the art of combat. It makes total sense that they could do way more than someone untrained like Luke in the original trilogy or Rey in this movie. I think we'll get better, more extended fights as the trilogy progresses.

Granted, I seem to be younger than most of you in this thread, but that's my take. Now the long wait until March '17. I'll definitely be seeing TFA in the theater again at least one more time.

I don't hate the PT either. I think the problem was George Lucas thought that fans liked the special effects aspect and the goofy kid stuff like the Ewoks more than the story and the characters itself. The same movies with less CGI, and maybe about half as much senate stuff, and half as much Anakain/Padame romance stuff- which sounded like an awkward teenage boy or someone into renaissance fairs wrote it- and everything probably would have been pretty well received.

[Todd4State]

I liked how they played up the first order as an analogy to the first reich/ eventual natzi Germany.

Kylo being a major puss was a turn off for me. That was the only major disappointment though from me. Plus, they are set to "finish his training" now. He should be a supreme bad ass come episode 8. Other than that, I too felt like I was watching episode 4 again. They used damn near the exact same plot line and just introduced new twists to it. It was very simple, but it worked well.

Loved the new characters. all of them. Also loved the old characters still being involved. I thought it appealed to the old fans and newer generation too. Rea is a bad ass. Wasn't sure a female Jedi could play the role of standing up to Kylo, but she did it and did it well.

The comedic relief through the droids and Fin was also great. I hated the cheesiness of Jar Jar. It was awful and damn near ruined the that whole movie.

Episode 8: The First Order Strikes Back???

I don't think Kylo was a major puss. He took a shot from Chewy and still was able to respectably fight Finn and Rey. He's just untrained and conflicted more than anything. Rey knew how to fight because that was how she survived on Jakku- plus she had enough raw knowledge of the Force to get by against an untrained Dark Side user. I think he just got more than he bargained for when he went up against Rey- because again, she knew how to fight.

[Todd4State]

Lucas himself said the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin killed Palpatine and ultimately died himself. The Sith were no more, for however brief a period of time. Thus, he fulfilled the prophecy. Now we're getting the distinction between Sith and Dark Jedi. I'm excited to see where they take it.

I think that is going to be re-written and it's going to end up being either Luke or Rey who is the "Chosen One".

[PassInterference]

The Jedi were in control of the force. There was no balance between good and evil. Anakin turning to the dark side made it balanced. The prophecy was true. They just misread it.

Wow. That's a deep thought.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think they stuck to "what works" because of all the fanboys out there that railed on the PT. Not a bad idea- they actually kind of spun off of the EU which I wished that they hadn't done where Han and Leia have a child (Jacean- I HATE that name I think because it sounds like some Ole Miss frat boy) who turns to the Dark Side. Not that I disliked the story-I just would have liked to have seen something new that hadn't been thought of before. At least they named Han and Leia's son Ben instead of Jacean- so I could live with it at least. I'm not a fanboy that gets his underoos in a wad because of silly little things. I really enjoyed the movie overall.

I am about 90% sure that Rey is Luke's daughter, 8% sure it's Han and Leia's daughter, and 2% sure she is something that is neither. The thing that no one is talking about with her is the connection between her and Lor Son Tekka, Max Von Sydow's character who gets murdered at the beginning by Kyle Ren. No is talking about him- but I think he is going to end up being extremely important. He knows who Kyle Ren is, he knows his background and who his parents are, and Luke trusted him enough to safeguard the missing piece of the map to the original Jedi temple. But not a lot is said about him. I don't think it's a coincidence that he and Rey just happen to be on the same planet. My guess is Lor Son Tekka was supposed to kind of watch over Rey sort of like Obi Won Kenobi watched over Luke until "the time came".

My guess is Rey was abandoned after Kylo Ren destroyed Luke's new Jedi order and Luke knew that he had to hide her so that she wouldn't be killed or turned to the Dark Side. I think Rey is going to ultimately end up having to confront Kylo Ren again and Luke is going to confront Supreme Leader Snoke, who I think is probably Darth Plageius in some grand finale in Episode IX.

If Rey is Luke's daughter, that means that Luke has a significant other. And I wonder who that could be? Probably someone we haven't been introduced yet unless it's something way out there. If that theory is true, then Luke might have felt that his new Jedi Order was destroyed in part because of him having a significant other (Jedi no no) which might explain another reason for abandoning his daughter and going into seclusion.

Also, how in the hell did Poe Dameron escape from Jakku? One minute it looks like he abandons Finn and then the next thing you know he shows up with a squad of X-Wing fighters at Maz Kanata's castle.

But yes, GREAT movie and I enjoyed it.

I'm hoping like hell that IF Rey is Luke's daughter, they'll canonize Mara Jade as her mother. She was easily the most popular EU character and the only EU character to ever be listed in the Top 10 for favorite Star Wars characters. I also liked the suggestion that Rey's mother is killed when The Seven attack Luke's Jedi Academy. I could definitely see them taking it that direction to make everyone hate Kylo/Ben that much more.

Btw, since you mentioned it, I loved all the nods to the EU. Luke & Mara had a son named Ben, so they essentially used his name for Han & Leia's son in TFA.

[War Machine Dawg]

I don't hate the PT either. I think the problem was George Lucas thought that fans liked the special effects aspect and the goofy kid stuff like the Ewoks more than the story and the characters itself. The same movies with less CGI, and maybe about half as much senate stuff, and half as much Anakain/Padame romance stuff- which sounded like an awkward teenage boy or someone into renaissance fairs wrote it- and everything probably would have been pretty well received.

My take on the PT is pretty simple: The story ideas themselves were epic. The Sith, through thousands of years of plotting and the implementation of the Rule of Two, worked to take control of the galaxy politically and eliminate the Jedi. They would be opposed by the Chosen One. The political machinations of Palpatine and the way he manipulated everyone was amazing.

It went wrong when Lucas refused to employ a script writer. The dialogue needed to be completely rewritten. No one talks that way, and Harrison Ford told Lucas as much back when they were filming the OT. They also needed to re-cast the role of Anakin. But let's be fair to Hayden Christensen - he was much, much better in Episode III, in part because the script was better with less awful dialogue.

I also get why Lucas created Jar Jar - he wanted a character that was kid friendly. It was a gigantic mistake, but I see the reasoning. Note this isn't a defense of Jar Jar - he needed to die in the slowest, most painful way imaginable. His presence made the PT so toxic that no one was going to admit to enjoying the good elements of the PT. It was a total failure in understanding your fan base.

Another big gripe is how Lucas completely wasted one of the coolest villains we've seen in Maul. He had this epic look and wielded that awesome dual-bladed saber. Killing him off so quickly and cheaply just flat sucked. They should've had a power struggle between he & Dooku over who became Palpatine's true apprentice.

That's my thoughts on the subject, at least. Fixing the dialoge alone would eliminate probably 90% of the non-Jar Jar bitching.

[Blackout]

Still should have been a more balanced fight, aka better story.

Ben grows up the black sheep. Hates his parents having all the glory. Hates being "equal" to the others Luke is training. Hell this is Han Solo's kid why should be be equal to these other twerps. Wants too much too soon. Seduced by the power of the dark side. Offers other trainees the option of converting with him or be killed. Thus the Knights of Ren are born. Luke walks in on the carnage and has an epic battle with all of the Knights. Its a draw, the Knights leave vowing they will eventually kill Luke and take power in the galaxy.

The Knights then spread out conquering lands one by one until they have amassed a Republic sized opposition. Luke knows a war now would leave the good guys in serious jeopardy so he goes into hiding throwing off the plans for domination and instead focusing Ren on the wild goose chase of finding and killing Luke because he knows as long as he's out there he could be training new recruits to eventually take away his power.

There is a secret map to Luke just in case they begin the epic Knights vs Republic battle and he's needed but it must be kept secret. And this is where you begin with Finn, Rey, BB8 and the gang.

Like the Empire represented the Cold War of the 70's, this is a perfect analogy to the war with radical Islam today. Start small, convert or be killed, amass a following until large enough to strike. Would have been a stroke of genius that would cement JJ Abrams in history.

[sleepy dawg]

I loved it, but then again, I love all 7 episodes, unlike most. I think the reason they didn't do anything new is because they did that with 1-3 and everyone was pissed it wasn't exactly what they were expecting. Most people don't like change, and the changes in 1-3 were large. All I want is a good movie, and I don't care how they achieve it. All 7 star wars rank in my top 50 of favorite movies, and I am very much looking forward to 8.

[mstatefan91]

The problem with the PT is Jar Jar, dialogue, CGI, and complete character break downs. I mean... Padme is a freaking pacifist but she still marries Anakin after he murders all of the sand people (and he tells her point blank)??? Yeah... OK.

So, Anakin does that but then he's ok for another few years before he ultimately snaps? lol wut?

[War Machine Dawg]

Still should have been a more balanced fight, aka better story.

Ben grows up the black sheep. Hates his parents having all the glory. Hates being "equal" to the others Luke is training. Hell this is Han Solo's kid why should be be equal to these other twerps. Wants too much too soon. Seduced by the power of the dark side. Offers other trainees the option of converting with him or be killed. Thus the Knights of Ren are born. Luke walks in on the carnage and has an epic battle with all of the Knights. Its a draw, the Knights leave vowing they will eventually kill Luke and take power in the galaxy.

The Knights then spread out conquering lands one by one until they have amassed a Republic sized opposition. Luke knows a war now would leave the good guys in serious jeopardy so he goes into hiding throwing off the plans for domination and instead focusing Ren on the wild goose chase of finding and killing Luke because he knows as long as he's out there he could be training new recruits to eventually take away his power.

There is a secret map to Luke just in case they begin the epic Knights vs Republic battle and he's needed but it must be kept secret. And this is where you begin with Finn, Rey, BB8 and the gang.

Like the Empire represented the Cold War of the 70's, this is a perfect analogy to the war with radical Islam today. Start small, convert or be killed, amass a following until large enough to strike. Would have been a stroke of genius that would cement JJ Abrams in history.

Dude, calm the f down. That's probably exactly how they'll develop it over the course of VIII & IX. This movie was just an introduction of the new group and a farewell to some of the old group. There are 3 movies to develop these characters. Revealing Kylo is actually Ben Solo was so huge they didn't really need to do much else. You're wanting too much too soon. Just let it play out.

Also, noticed JJ says the script for VIII is so good he's pissed he isn't directing it. That makes me all giddy.

[Blackout]

Dude, calm the f down. That's probably exactly how they'll develop it over the course of VIII & IX. This movie was just an introduction of the new group and a farewell to some of the old group. There are 3 movies to develop these characters. Revealing Kylo is actually Ben Solo was so huge they didn't really need to do much else. You're wanting too much too soon. Just let it play out.

Also, noticed JJ says the script for VIII is so good he's pissed he isn't directing it. That makes me all giddy.

Yes but my way is more compelling with an even matchup and Kylo is the boss hog revolutionary. Not a pawn for an already dominant force with a death planet going up against 30 X wings..

Could have started with Kylo and the boys taking over places, looking for Luke, without the reveal of WHY he became bad. That could have still waited till Episode VIII. Just saying the Death Planet and Supreme Leader isn't my cup of tea. Let's go more of the Civil War, radical Islam spread convert or die theme. Resistance could pop up on these new places too leading to the battle scenes that are necessary.

[mstatefan91]

Dude, calm the f down. That's probably exactly how they'll develop it over the course of VIII & IX. This movie was just an introduction of the new group and a farewell to some of the old group. There are 3 movies to develop these characters. Revealing Kylo is actually Ben Solo was so huge they didn't really need to do much else. You're wanting too much too soon. Just let it play out.

Also, noticed JJ says the script for VIII is so good he's pissed he isn't directing it. That makes me all giddy.

It makes me mad that JJ isn't directing all of them.

[Todd4State]

I'm hoping like hell that IF Rey is Luke's daughter, they'll canonize Mara Jade as her mother. She was easily the most popular EU character and the only EU character to ever be listed in the Top 10 for favorite Star Wars characters. I also liked the suggestion that Rey's mother is killed when The Seven attack Luke's Jedi Academy. I could definitely see them taking it that direction to make everyone hate Kylo/Ben that much more.

Btw, since you mentioned it, I loved all the nods to the EU. Luke & Mara had a son named Ben, so they essentially used his name for Han & Leia's son in TFA.

I think if she is Luke's daughter they will have a Mara Jade character just by a different name. Like they did with Ben Solo instead of Jacean. They pretty much have to since Disney denounced the old EU as canon. It's not too surprising that they took aspects that a lot of fans liked about it and used it but changed it up some.

[Todd4State]

My take on the PT is pretty simple: The story ideas themselves were epic. The Sith, through thousands of years of plotting and the implementation of the Rule of Two, worked to take control of the galaxy politically and eliminate the Jedi. They would be opposed by the Chosen One. The political machinations of Palpatine and the way he manipulated everyone was amazing.

It went wrong when Lucas refused to employ a script writer. The dialogue needed to be completely rewritten. No one talks that way, and Harrison Ford told Lucas as much back when they were filming the OT. They also needed to re-cast the role of Anakin. But let's be fair to Hayden Christensen - he was much, much better in Episode III, in part because the script was better with less awful dialogue.

I also get why Lucas created Jar Jar - he wanted a character that was kid friendly. It was a gigantic mistake, but I see the reasoning. Note this isn't a defense of Jar Jar - he needed to die in the slowest, most painful way imaginable. His presence made the PT so toxic that no one was going to admit to enjoying the good elements of the PT. It was a total failure in understanding your fan base.

Another big gripe is how Lucas completely wasted one of the coolest villains we've seen in Maul. He had this epic look and wielded that awesome dual-bladed saber. Killing him off so quickly and cheaply just flat sucked. They should've had a power struggle between he & Dooku over who became Palpatine's true apprentice.

That's my thoughts on the subject, at least. Fixing the dialoge alone would eliminate probably 90% of the non-Jar Jar bitching.

Plus it has to be hard to act in front of a green screen all the time where you have no idea as an actor what the heck is going on. It's a shame JJ didn't do the PT.

Agree about Darth Maul. I like the Maul vs. Dooku angle too.

[Todd4State]

Yes but my way is more compelling with an even matchup and Kylo is the boss hog revolutionary. Not a pawn for an already dominant force with a death planet going up against 30 X wings..

Could have started with Kylo and the boys taking over places, looking for Luke, without the reveal of WHY he became bad. That could have still waited till Episode VIII. Just saying the Death Planet and Supreme Leader isn't my cup of tea. Let's go more of the Civil War, radical Islam spread convert or die theme. Resistance could pop up on these new places too leading to the battle scenes that are necessary.

I wouldn't be surprised if the StarKiller base is the last Death Star we see. Simply because the main complaint I have heard about the TFA is about "oh- another Death Star. Great." I wouldn't be surprised if there is another one either- but I'm leaning towards them going in a different direction most likely.