It's amazing that those ...

[Liverpooldawg]

That's why I asked because I thought that's what he meant by old MSU. What he's actually saying is absurd.

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.

[CadaverDawg]

Haha, this thread backfired. Lol

[Todd4State]

High expectations is actually the opposite of "old MSU" in my mind. No one is cheering on a Liberty Bowl, they want to see something better and so do our coaches. Looking like Nashville, unfortunately... and I think it's good to be a little pissed about that. Shows the program and fan base is moving forward.

This guy gets it. Being satisfied actually usually leads to complacency which then leads to downfall.

[Todd4State]

Haha, this thread backfired. Lol

That's only because we don't see the big pic...uh hallucination.

[Liverpooldawg]

You've pretty much just described human nature.

It's partially why I've always felt more enjoyment from being a State fan than I assume most fans of programs like Bama and Florida ever feel. Because the more success you have, the more the losses sting and the more the wins are nothing but relief.

Yep. Until my we overcome it we will always be what we have been.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Jackie was damn close in '96. The Bobby Wallace smoke was thick. If it wasn't for the Bama win, he was gone. You could also argue that Bob Tyler and maybe Felker fit that bill.

Eta - not defending, just looking for examples

Felker isn't even close, his ass was given 5 years, and at the end he had a 5-28 conference record. He never won more than 2 conference games in a single season, and that was in his first season, the others he only won one or zero. You have to win conference games, plain and simple...

Bob Tyler was killed by the NCAA...he was tainted after that, so it was probably for the better for MSU to part ways, all other schools had to say was "Don't go play for Tyler, he's a cheater and your wins won't count"

[Liverpooldawg]

Haha, this thread backfired. Lol

Actually it hasn't. It's what I expected but it's what I wanted to get out there. No surprise that YOU though that.

[Todd4State]

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.

So, you KNOW how to get us to a top 10 team level? And I presume this includes blindly following a coach that pissed away LSU with horrific clock management and lets his friend but together an o-line that just allowed 9 sacks? Do tell.

[Liverpooldawg]

Felker isn't even close, his ass was given 5 years, and at the end he had a 5-28 conference record. He never won more than 2 conference games in a single season, and that was in his first season, the others he only won one or zero. You have to win conference games, plain and simple...

Bob Tyler was killed by the NCAA...he was tainted after that, so it was probably for the better for MSU to part ways, all other schools had to say was "Don't go play for Tyler, he's a cheater and your wins won't count"

You need to go back and look at Felkers last year and what JWS said about it. The NCAA stuff wasn't what really did Tyker in. That's a common misconception. Typical.

[CadaverDawg]

Actually it hasn't. It's what I expected but it's what I wanted to get out there. No surprise that YOU though that.

Haha, by all means keep going...I'm enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself. Again.

And I'm not surprised that you pick out my comment out of all 50 comments going against your crazy viewpoint, to respond to. Please, continue...

[Dawg61]

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.

Hope your knowing of what it takes to get there includes how to improve an OL that just gave up 9 sacks cause that's what all of us are focusing on. You're focusing on Rocky Felker. We are trying to improve our OL.

[CadaverDawg]

So, you KNOW how to get us to a top 10 team level? And I presume this includes blindly following a coach that pissed away LSU with horrific clock management and lets his friend but together an o-line that just allowed 9 sacks? Do tell.

He's talking about a high school team. The same team that he admitted basically threw in the towel any year they didn't have a great OL. Didn't call different plays...just kept ramming that square peg into the round hole and threw their hands up Bc the OL wasn't great.

-his words, not mine.

What he forgets is that you don't recruit in highschool. You're dealt a hand, and you work with it. And his best high school coach ever couldn't adjust, so no good coach should have to. They just have to hope they have a dominant OL or else they will suck.

That's the cliffs notes version of his "experience". But when they had a great OL, they were unstoppable.

[BrunswickDawg]

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.

I worked in historic preservation for 20 years and managed a 35 building national landmark for 10. To manage it, we worked off a 20 year master plan. We established a long term goal and vision, and broke groups of accomplishments into plateaus. To get to the goal, we had to move up to each plateau - and knew we would have setbacks along the way. It was kind of like building a pyramid. Establish foundation, lay the first course, and work your way up. Building a real football program - which have never been able to do - means understanding you will have plateaus. The key is recognizing it and doing what it takes to get to the next level.

[Liverpooldawg]

So, you KNOW how to get us to a top 10 team level? And I presume this includes blindly following a coach that pissed away LSU with horrific clock management and lets his friend but together an o-line that just allowed 9 sacks? Do tell.

No, I'm telling you I watched a program (from the inside) go from absolute total historical crap (I played for it on that level) to winning it all on its level, more than once. I've watched it remain near the top. It takes a good coach/coaches and it takes consistency and continuity over time. It takes consistent and mostly unquestioning support. That's something MSU football has never enjoyed.!

[CadaverDawg]

Hope your knowing of what it takes to get there includes how to improve an OL that just gave up 9 sacks cause that's what all of us are focusing on. You're focusing on Rocky Felker. We are trying to improve our OL.

C'mon Mane. Dont be "Old MSU". ***

[Liverpooldawg]

Haha, by all means keep going...I'm enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself. Again.

And I'm not surprised that you pick out my comment out of all 50 comments going against your crazy viewpoint, to respond to. Please, continue...

It shouldn't be a surprise. You embody what I think is wrong with our support. You should have that figured out by now.

[CadaverDawg]

It shouldn't be a surprise. You embody what I think is wrong with our support.

Haha don't get mad at me...you're the one that revealed your ignorance by starting this thread. I'm just enjoying the show.

Oh, and I'll accept a "thank you" on behalf of the "New MSU" crowd, for Ben Howland and Dan Mullen and John Cohen.

"You're welcome"

Sincerely,

NEW MSU

[Charlie_Sheen420]

You need to go back and look at Felkers last year and what JWS said about it. The NCAA stuff wasn't what really did Tyker in. That's a common misconception. Typical.

There was nothing about his last year that pointed to them progressing the next year. You are judged based on your wins and losses as a coach, and in the SEC you better start winning your conference games especially in year 5, guess how many Felker won that year? One! One out of six....yeah he is really worth keeping around for another year, maybe he would have gotten 2 in 1991! Tie his record he had his first year! Instead he was let go, and here comes ole Jackie...that seemed to work out pretty well. When you know a turd is a turd, you have to flush it, plain and simple, move on and see if you have better luck with another coach...

Pretty much every coach at MSU has been given a fair amount of time and games to be judged on before any decision was made to let them go....

[CadaverDawg]

There was nothing about his last year that pointed to them progressing the next year. You are judged based on your wins and losses as a coach, and in the SEC you better start winning your conference games especially in year 5, guess how many Felker won that year? One! One out of six....yeah he is really worth keeping around for another year, maybe he would have gotten 2 in 1991! Tie his record he had his first year! Instead he was let go, and here comes ole Jackie...that seemed to work out pretty well. When you know a turd is a turd, you have to flush it, plain and simple, move on and see if you have better luck with another coach...

Pretty much every coach at MSU has been given a fair amount of time and games to be judged on before any decision was made to let them go....

Boom

[Liverpooldawg]

I worked in historic preservation for 20 years and managed a 35 building national landmark for 10. To manage it, we worked off a 20 year master plan. We established a long term goal and vision, and broke groups of accomplishments into plateaus. To get to the goal, we had to move up to each plateau - and knew we would have setbacks along the way. It was kind of like building a pyramid. Establish foundation, lay the first course, and work your way up. Building a real football program - which have never been able to do - means understanding you will have plateaus. The key is recognizing it and doing what it takes to get to the next level.

I agree. It takes a consistent guiding leadership to do that wouldn't you agree? I think Mullen is the best chance we have had for that in my lifetime and that includes Jackie. I've never felt that way about any MSU coach in any sport. That includes Williams, Polk, Sherril, Cohen, and Stansbury. It also includes Howland. He is killing it in recruiting and he is going to win big soon. He is also 60. Mullen has a chance to establish a true dynasty if we can keep him. What he has done here is remarkable. Don't believe me ( and why should you)? Listen to fans of other programs and the talking heads. We see it through maroon glasses and typical fan over expectations. If we ruin this chance with a good, young coach we will deserve what we will get.