Cws

[Homedawg]

Hear hear

Thought we already did, you know, w your boy hump! oh how fast you run from your ignorant hump, trout comparison. True idiocy.

[msstate7]

Fulmer keeps licking his fingers before pitches. Didn't think you could do that.

[Todd4State]

When I said good teams have freshmen they rely on, or whatever exactly I said that you latched on to has have been proven completely wrong on over and over. I clearly and blatantly obviously didn't mean that the freshmen would be doing the job along without help from sophs, juniors, and seniors. But thanks for taking a comment, stretching it far beyond any reasonable context and acting like I said we should have freshmen hitting like mike trout and Bryce Harper. That was never what I said or intended to say. But you have your agenda, and I'll be damned if you aren't going to keep throwing shit against the wall u til you find something to stick.

So, what are you saying? That us having freshmen in the lineup is a good thing because they get experience? Would it not be preferable to have a team full of upperclassmen rather than a team of roughly almost half underclassmen per you- "two freshmen, two sophomores" or whatever it was that you said- aren't having to go through growing pains?

You aren't understanding that in the area that we recruit, MOST of those players are extremely raw and are going to take two years to fully develop because of the travel team situation in our area. In other words- the reason I am against your development plan is because it would most likely mean that about half of our lineup would be still developing every single year- which is recipe for disaster in the SEC. It's not a coincidence that our last freshman that truly contributed at a high- oh I'm sorry, I'm taking you out of context now because I have some sort of an agenda- level was from California and then this year from Georgia.

The bottom line is we need to stack classes of 10-15 players every year and make sure every position is covered. And if we find Will Clark 2.0 in one of those classes- awesome. But we can not rely on that. And we should not count on that.

Here's OUR last team from Omaha:

C- Ammo- Sr.
1B- Rea- RS So.
2B- Pirtle- Jr.
3B- Detz/Frost- Jr./RS Sr.
SS- Frazier- Jr.
LF- Henderson- RS So.
CF- CT- Sr.
RF- Renfroe- Jr.
DH- Porter- Sr.

EVERY single player had been out of HS at least three years in the starting lineup. And the biggest exception on the pitching staff was Holder who was a sophomore and the best closer in the SEC at that time. The only other sophomore that contributed was Fitts- who was basically used for two innings to get the ball to Girodo.

Now, the way you are saying it should work might work for Vanderbilt maybe. But much like our football team, we need to be a developmental baseball program for us to be successful.

[KB21]

Even if you include Kendall, that's only three freshmen- and it still doesn't change the fact that he is near the bottom of his team in batting average.

And it also doesn't change the fact of the matter that those teams are carried by experienced players- not their freshmen.

It also doesn't take into account park factors, which do effect things. That doesn't diminish the fact that Mississippi State has limited power in their line up. Opposing teams hit only 22 home runs at Dudy Noble this year. Heck, our team hit 6 in Kentucky's cracker jack stadium. You can see why Cohen played to his ball park there, as he had power hitters up and down his line up. Cohen has always stressed hitting the ball up the middle and using all the fields to his hitters. Ryan Strieby, former SEC Player of the Year, credits Cohen for making him a better hitter overall because of this approach, but even he probably benefited from that stadium more than most realize.

For those that believe Cohen coaches hitters to not hit home runs:

2009 Connor Powers = .668 SLG, 19 HR, 15 2B
2009 Russ Sneed = .532 SLG, 9 HR, 8 2B
2009 Ryan Duffy = .645 SLG, 10 HR, 8 2B
2009 Cody Freeman = .533 SLG, 6 HR, 3 2B
2009 Team = .468 SLG, 61 HRs, 103 2B

2010 Connor Powers = .696 SLG, 16 HR, 18 2B
2010 Luke Adkins = .532 SLG, 8 HR, 14 2B
2010 Nick Vickerson = .525 SLG, 8 HR, 12 2B
2010 Russ Sneed = .524 SLG, 9 HR, 10 2B
2010 Ryan Duffy = .642 SLG, 10 HR, 7 2B
2010 Team = .474 SLG, 68 HR, 112 2B

He's not coaching players to hit singles and not home runs. He's also had some bad luck with recruiting power guys. Runey Davis went pro from his first class. Corey Dickerson went pro from his second class. He lost Chase Vallot and Cord Sanberg last year and Austin Riley and Greg Pickett this year.

[dawgs]

So, what are you saying? That us having freshmen in the lineup is a good thing because they get experience? Would it not be preferable to have a team full of upperclassmen rather than a team of roughly almost half underclassmen per you- "two freshmen, two sophomores" or whatever it was that you said- aren't having to go through growing pains?

You aren't understanding that in the area that we recruit, MOST of those players are extremely raw and are going to take two years to fully develop because of the travel team situation in our area. In other words- the reason I am against your development plan is because it would most likely mean that about half of our lineup would be still developing every single year- which is recipe for disaster in the SEC. It's not a coincidence that our last freshman that truly contributed at a high- oh I'm sorry, I'm taking you out of context now because I have some sort of an agenda- level was from California and then this year from Georgia.

The bottom line is we need to stack classes of 10-15 players every year and make sure every position is covered. And if we find Will Clark 2.0 in one of those classes- awesome. But we can not rely on that. And we should not count on that.

Here's OUR last team from Omaha:

C- Ammo- Sr.
1B- Rea- RS So.
2B- Pirtle- Jr.
3B- Detz/Frost- Jr./RS Sr.
SS- Frazier- Jr.
LF- Henderson- RS So.
CF- CT- Sr.
RF- Renfroe- Jr.
DH- Porter- Sr.

EVERY single player had been out of HS at least three years in the starting lineup. And the biggest exception on the pitching staff was Holder who was a sophomore and the best closer in the SEC at that time. The only other sophomore that contributed was Fitts- who was basically used for two innings to get the ball to Girodo.

Now, the way you are saying it should work might work for Vanderbilt maybe. But much like our football team, we need to be a developmental baseball program for us to be successful.

I'm saying the fact that we don't have freshmen ready and able to make positive contributions from get go is a problem. No I don't want 10 freshmen playing, but having 2 freshmen able to come in and play well means they should be able to be better as sophs and hopefully stud 1st round pick types as juniors. It's rarer for a guy to go from a weak contributor or not playing for 2 years to being a really good junior season player. Having some semblance of balance between the classes in your starting lineup prevents a lull when you lose a couple of stud juniors, because you have good sophs with 1-2 years of experience moving into those roles and some freshmen with a year of contributing ready to move up and be better as sophs, etc. and obviously a few guys that don't play will move into a starting role too, but it's nice when you have known and proven quantity at 4-6 positions going into the season instead of having to break in 7 new starters or something.

[Todd4State]

I'm saying the fact that we don't have freshmen ready and able to make positive contributions from get go is a problem. No I don't want 10 freshmen playing, but having 2 freshmen able to come in and play well means they should be able to be better as sophs and hopefully stud 1st round pick types as juniors. It's rarer for a guy to go from a weak contributor or not playing for 2 years to being a really good junior season player. Having some semblance of balance between the classes in your starting lineup prevents a lull when you lose a couple of stud juniors, because you have good sophs with 1-2 years of experience moving into those roles and some freshmen with a year of contributing ready to move up and be better as sophs, etc. and obviously a few guys that don't play will move into a starting role too, but it's nice when you have known and proven quantity at 4-6 positions going into the season instead of having to break in 7 new starters or something.

That's the beauty of summer baseball- your players that don't play a lot get at bats and IP. We can also get guys IP in relief and guys AB's here and there in pinch hit situations.

My opinion is based more on the types of players Mississippi produces than anything because that is the primary place that we are going to get players. What you are talking about is more of a "perfect world" scenario.

[dawgs]

It also doesn't take into account park factors, which do effect things. That doesn't diminish the fact that Mississippi State has limited power in their line up. Opposing teams hit only 22 home runs at Dudy Noble this year. Heck, our team hit 6 in Kentucky's cracker jack stadium. You can see why Cohen played to his ball park there, as he had power hitters up and down his line up. Cohen has always stressed hitting the ball up the middle and using all the fields to his hitters. Ryan Strieby, former SEC Player of the Year, credits Cohen for making him a better hitter overall because of this approach, but even he probably benefited from that stadium more than most realize.

For those that believe Cohen coaches hitters to not hit home runs:

2009 Connor Powers = .668 SLG, 19 HR, 15 2B
2009 Russ Sneed = .532 SLG, 9 HR, 8 2B
2009 Ryan Duffy = .645 SLG, 10 HR, 8 2B
2009 Cody Freeman = .533 SLG, 6 HR, 3 2B
2009 Team = .468 SLG, 61 HRs, 103 2B

2010 Connor Powers = .696 SLG, 16 HR, 18 2B
2010 Luke Adkins = .532 SLG, 8 HR, 14 2B
2010 Nick Vickerson = .525 SLG, 8 HR, 12 2B
2010 Russ Sneed = .524 SLG, 9 HR, 10 2B
2010 Ryan Duffy = .642 SLG, 10 HR, 7 2B
2010 Team = .474 SLG, 68 HR, 112 2B

He's not coaching players to hit singles and not home runs. He's also had some bad luck with recruiting power guys. Runey Davis went pro from his first class. Corey Dickerson went pro from his second class. He lost Chase Vallot and Cord Sanberg last year and Austin Riley and Greg Pickett this year.

You can't deny that shit is trending in the wrong direction. And as has been pointed out multiple times before, our coaching actively takes away our best opportunities to score batches of runs. Without even getting into technique, just our in game coaching decisions. Either Cohen figures out the magic voodoo everyone else good does to get good power hitters on campus, or he'll be coaching elsewhere.

[dawgs]

That's the beauty of summer baseball- your players that don't play a lot get at bats and IP. We can also get guys IP in relief and guys AB's here and there in pinch hit situations.

My opinion is based more on the types of players Mississippi produces than anything because that is the primary place that we are going to get players. What you are talking about is more of a "perfect world" scenario.

Those freshmen crushing the ball for vandy and Florida aren't gonna sit on their asses after the CWS. They'll be playing summer ball too or working on improving somewhere.

Plus this isn't football or even basketball, this is baseball. We actually carry some clout. It's not like we haven't found studs from out of state before.

[Todd4State]

Those freshmen crushing the ball for vandy and Florida aren't gonna sit on their asses after the CWS. They'll be playing summer ball too or working on improving somewhere.

Plus this isn't football or even basketball, this is baseball. We actually carry some clout. It's not like we haven't found studs from out of state before.

Not consistently enough to count on it. Again- and I know you will never agree- we can not rely on freshmen to play for us. We may have some clout- but regardless of that we need to develop players and get teams that are stacked with upperclassmen. That is the best, most proven way for us to succeed as a program. I don't care what Vanderbilt and Florida have. Doesn't matter. Doesn't pertain to us. Their primary recruiting area isn't Mississippi- or they would be in the same boat as us and Ole Miss for that matter.

We've hashed it out over and over again. Look at our lineup from the last time we went to Omaha- that's our recipe. That's what we need to do. If we do that, we will be a contender like we all want to be every year. That's why I ripped Cohen's ass over the JUCO's.

[KB21]

You can't deny that shit is trending in the wrong direction. And as has been pointed out multiple times before, our coaching actively takes away our best opportunities to score batches of runs. Without even getting into technique, just our in game coaching decisions. Either Cohen figures out the magic voodoo everyone else good does to get good power hitters on campus, or he'll be coaching elsewhere.

So, what do you want him to do? Teach singles hitters to hit the ball with loft and completely take away their speed advantage? Or stick a guy out there that swings hard at everything just hoping he can connect on a few (Daniel Garner)?

Everyone loves to criticize John Cohen for sacrifice bunting. Well, MSU had 41 sacrifice bunts on the year. That was 4th in the SEC. The team that was right above them in the rankings? Vanderbilt with 43.

Now explain to me how Vanderbilt has done so well with MORE sacrifice bunts than John Cohen and Mississippi State have had while also having more power in the line up/easier park for hitters (69 HR)?

[Smitty]

Vanderbilt has played 15 more games than us

[KB21]

Vanderbilt has played 15 more games than us

OK. Conference only stats:

Vanderbilt 19 sac bunts
Mississippi State 18 sac bunts

[Smitty]

OK. Conference only stats:

Vanderbilt 19 sac bunts
Mississippi State 18 sac bunts

How many leadoff men did they get on base compared to us?

Still doesn't make it a smart play. They can overcome it better though. Sac bunts punish bad hitting teams more because it's harder for them to overcome the out. In 2012 we scored on just 6 man on 1st bunts. Didn't score on 26.

[dawgs]

Not consistently enough to count on it. Again- and I know you will never agree- we can not rely on freshmen to play for us. We may have some clout- but regardless of that we need to develop players and get teams that are stacked with upperclassmen. That is the best, most proven way for us to succeed as a program. I don't care what Vanderbilt and Florida have. Doesn't matter. Doesn't pertain to us. Their primary recruiting area isn't Mississippi- or they would be in the same boat as us and Ole Miss for that matter.

We've hashed it out over and over again. Look at our lineup from the last time we went to Omaha- that's our recipe. That's what we need to do. If we do that, we will be a contender like we all want to be every year. That's why I ripped Cohen's ass over the JUCO's.

you can find 1-2 freshmen that are ready to come in an contribute positively immediately, and still have plenty of development guys. i'm sure florida and vandy have plenty of developmental guys to go along with their couple of stud freshmen.

point is that either cohen isn't recruiting well enough or he's not developing well enough. then he compounds it by thinking he's smarter than everyone else and making decisions counter to decades of data.

[KB21]

Considering the fact that this team has 6 players (would be 7) playing in the Cap Cod League shows me that Cohen's recruiting is just fine, and the majority of those players are in the middle of the bell curve when it comes to pace of development.

As far as having 1-2 true freshmen coming in and contributing positively immediately, this year MSU had a true freshman start at SS for the majority of the year in Ryan Gridley. Last year, it was catcher Gavin Collins.

[maroonmania]

If Vandy was as good as they are on a level playing field it would be really something to admire. The fact that they are doing this through unfair NCAA rules that give them a huge advantage in obtaining players via being a private school somewhat disgusts me.

[State82]

If Vandy was as good as they are on a level playing field it would be really something to admire. The fact that they are doing this through unfair NCAA rules that give them a huge advantage in obtaining players via being a private school somewhat disgusts me.

This all day. Exactly. I absolutely loathe Vandy baseball because of this situation.

[KB21]

This is interesting. The top three recruiting classes in college baseball according to Perfect game:

1. Vanderbilt
2. Florida
3. Mississippi State

Recruits from Vanderbilt that will sign/have signed pro contracts: Triston McKenzie, Bryce Denton, Nolan Watson, and Chandler Day
Recruits from Florida that will sign/have signed pro contracts: Kyle Tucker, Brady Singer, Thomas Szapucki
Recruits from Mississippi State that will sign/have signed pro contracts: Austin Riley, Greg Pickett, Gray Fenter

The #4 class was UCLA, and they are losing Kolby Allard, Lucas Herbet, Kyle Molnar, and Tyler Nevin

When you recruit at a high level, you are going to lose out to the pros on some.