Cws

[Homedawg]

Not one but 2, 1-0 games in the cws. You need to be able to hit, sure, but damn well better be able to pitch.

[msstate7]

Unfortunately for us, we can't do either

[messageboardsuperhero]

Unfortunately for us, we can't do either

We will pitch much better next spring.

[I seen it dawg]

If you're loaded with pitching in college you can win big. I wasn't near as pissed with the offense this year as the pitching or lack thereof. No ****ing excuse for the trash Butch threw out there. Again I say..get your ****ing shit together Butch.

[dawgs]

There's also 2 games where the winner scored double digit runs. Fix our hitting and the pitching can give up 7-8 runs and we'll still win if we can score.

*yes I know it's ridiculous to advocate giving up 7-8 runs, but IMO it's not less ridiculous than saying small ball is the best kinda offense if you have good pitching like trying to win 3-2 with minimal margin of error is advisable*

[Really Clark?]

My stance is pitching and defense wins championships the majority of the time. Defense usually travels better than offense. Not to say a great hitting team can't do it with average pitching but a lot of those teams also got good pitching late to help push them over. Because let's face it we have seen at any given point a pitcher who is in the zone negate at hitting team even if he is on a bad team. That is the one position that on a given day, that team is great because of great pitching. But more to the point you need really good pitching depth and solid bullpen. At some point you will need that pen to step in and deliver. Teams that have that depth can outlast a lot of teams.

ETA. I am a guy who has spent the majority of his time on hitting side of the sport.

[Homedawg]

There's also 2 games where the winner scored double digit runs. Fix our hitting and the pitching can give up 7-8 runs and we'll still win if we can score.

*yes I know it's ridiculous to advocate giving up 7-8 runs, but IMO it's not less ridiculous than saying small ball is the best kinda offense if you have good pitching like trying to win 3-2 with minimal margin of error is advisable*

Yep and in both cases of the team had scored 4 they still would have won. Like I said, better be able to pitch.

[I seen it dawg]

There's also 2 games where the winner scored double digit runs. Fix our hitting and the pitching can give up 7-8 runs and we'll still win if we can score.

*yes I know it's ridiculous to advocate giving up 7-8 runs, but IMO it's not less ridiculous than saying small ball is the best kinda offense if you have good pitching like trying to win 3-2 with minimal margin of error is advisable*

You're the only one talking about small ball in this thread.

[Todd4State]

There's also 2 games where the winner scored double digit runs. Fix our hitting and the pitching can give up 7-8 runs and we'll still win if we can score.

*yes I know it's ridiculous to advocate giving up 7-8 runs, but IMO it's not less ridiculous than saying small ball is the best kinda offense if you have good pitching like trying to win 3-2 with minimal margin of error is advisable*

The thing is you can rely on a pitcher more than you can an offense scoring that many runs off of a good pitcher. It's simple math really. Pitchers win over 70% of the battles. Hitters win about 30% of the battles.

[dawgs]

The thing is you can rely on a pitcher more than you can an offense scoring that many runs off of a good pitcher. It's simple math really. Pitchers win over 70% of the battles. Hitters win about 30% of the battles.

imo that makes a hitter that can win 35% of the battles far more valuable.

[Todd4State]

imo that makes a hitter that can win 35% of the battles far more valuable.

You don't understand how it works.

You absolutely HAVE TO be able to stop the other team on offense and match the other teams pitcher and allow your team a chance to score runs. You can not rely on winning slugfests every night and baseball and expect to win a championship. A bad hitting team with an elite ace pitcher is more than likely going to beat a great hitting team with a below average pitcher.

[Tbonewannabe]

Seems like a hitter that can hit a HR would be more important since 1 hit could win the game.

[Really Clark?]

imo that makes a hitter that can win 35% of the battles far more valuable.

One hitter hitting .400, as phenomenal as that is, is just one guy. If he comes up in the right situations I don't ever have to let him swing the bat. Great pitching that has negated the other 8 hitters can pitch around the one great hitter. And he doesn't make a team a great hitting club by himself. He is valuable but one great hitter won't win you as many games as a one dominate pitcher.

[Really Clark?]

Seems like a hitter that can hit a HR would be more important since 1 hit could win the game.

Why are you assuming the defense gives him something to hit? A great pitching preformance can negate an entire offense. Even one great hitter.

You guys are looking at this all wrong. A great offense doesn't have to have one superstar phenomenal hitter. It doesn't hurt but a great offense is one who collectively can hit for avg, some power, but absolutely the most important part is clutch hitting. That is what makes a great offense. Not one guy. Conversely on any given night one guy, the pitcher, who is in the zone can negate that offense and win 75% or more of the battles he had that night.

[Really Clark?]

Seems like a hitter that can hit a HR would be more important since 1 hit could win the game.

Why are you assuming the defense gives him something to hit? A great pitching preformance can negate an entire offense. Even one great hitter.

You guys are looking at this all wrong. A great offense doesn't have to have one superstar phenomenal hitter. It doesn't hurt but a great offense is one who collectively can hit for avg, some power, but absolutely the most important part is clutch hitting. That is what makes a great offense. Not one guy. Conversely on any given night one guy, the pitcher, who is in the zone can negate that offense and win 75% or more of the battles he had that night.

Eta. Look at how many pitchers were drafted in top rounds last week and tell me what position is considered the most important.

[msstate7]

I think this argument is crazy. You've gotta have pitching AND hitting to get to the cws. Picks 1, 2, and 20 were positional players that are still playing. When we made championship series, we had a 1st round positional player. Having a big time bat makes your whole lineup better

[KB21]

I think this argument is crazy. You've gotta have pitching AND hitting to get to the cws. Picks 1, 2, and 20 were positional players that are still playing. When we made championship series, we had a 1st round positional player. Having a big time bat makes your whole lineup better

This.

I also believe the criticism of Butch Thompson is unwarranted considering that he has fielded some of the best team ERAs in the country in the previous 3 seasons.

I do lean towards putting more of an emphasis on pitching though, and when you look at that championship series vs UCLA, we got beat by their pitching. Our guys couldn't lay off the high fast ball.

[KB21]

One thing I think people need to understand. The days of "Gorilla Ball" are over. The BBCOR standards on the bats buried that style. I'm glad too, because that style of play was never about the skill of the player, but more about what kind of trampoline effect you could get on the bats.

I would also add that most of the power hitters in college baseball have to be developed. The legitimate power guys out of high school mostly end up playing pro ball.

[msstate7]

One thing I think people need to understand. The days of "Gorilla Ball" are over. The BBCOR standards on the bats buried that style. I'm glad too, because that style of play was never about the skill of the player, but more about what kind of trampoline effect you could get on the bats.

I would also add that most of the power hitters in college baseball have to be developed. The legitimate power guys out of high school mostly end up playing pro ball.

We're about to see how well Cohen can develop power. Barring injury, there's no reason we shouldn't see a significant rise in hr's or at least doubles for Collins and hump

[Really Clark?]

I think this argument is crazy. You've gotta have pitching AND hitting to get to the cws. Picks 1, 2, and 20 were positional players that are still playing. When we made championship series, we had a 1st round positional player. Having a big time bat makes your whole lineup better

Yes you need both but you know as well as I do that dominate pitching wins championships more so than a great offense. From MLB (while may have drafted great college position players the vast majority of top picks were pitchers) on down to little league. Strong pitching negates a strong offense. Not saying you don't try to have both.