Alot of our baseball fans need to realize its not 1995 anymore

[Smitty]

By my count, Texas A&M and LSU combined have the same number of draft picks in their lineup as we do.

[War Machine Dawg]

By my count, Texas A&M and LSU combined have the same number of draft picks in their lineup as we do.

So what you're saying is the only school with so-called elite talent and draft picks is Vandy (and maybe FL or SC - too lazy to look it up)? And I think we all know how Vandy is getting those guys into school.

Btw, could you go back and post the height of LSU's players and the height of our players? I'm willing to bet outside of Rea, Hump, Collins, and maybe Brown, we're severely undersized compared to them and aTm.

[Smitty]

but I would venture to guess guys have become hitters against sec competition under Cohen.

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed
Seth Heck - regressed
Brent Brownlee - regressed
Darryl Norris - regressed
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half
Gavin Collins - regressed this year
Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus

[Todd4State]

First time in 5+ years this post hasn't included sac bunting.... Progress. I agree with all of those things you listed, you have just (15+ times) always included sac bunting in that list.

Because I know you are too stupid to know the difference.

[Todd4State]

By my count, Texas A&M and LSU combined have the same number of draft picks in their lineup as we do.

And we also have almost twice as many JUCO's as those team start combined. And yet, we somehow have as much "elite" talent as they do? Basically all that means is we have two guys that are more high end talent- but there is a BIG gap between Robson, Humphreys, and everyone else in terms of talent.

[Todd4State]

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed (JUCO didn't have Renfroe to protect him)
Seth Heck - regressed (JUCO .299 to currently .294)
Brent Brownlee - regressed (Hurt throughout career)
Darryl Norris - regressed (Hurt throughout career)
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013 (What? Hit .245 last year and is now hitting .313)
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year (Hurt again, hit .310 his senior year)
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed (Raw, turned we got as much out of him as you could expect to get. Hit .274 as a sophomore, .265 as a junior)
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop (JUCO coach couldn't develop him either)
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop (Sucks)
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement (Was better his senior year. Hit .266 junior year and then hit .267)
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half (BS on Cohen changing his approach. The Yankees are laughing at you)
Gavin Collins - regressed this year (Yes- after he had a bone taken out of his freaking hand. And still has more home runs than he did last year)Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus (After he redshirted, and looked completely lost in camp last year.)

So, the majority of the guys you mentioned are either JUCO's or had injury plagued careers. With some typical Smitty absurdity mixed in such as Rooker not showing progress from his redshirt year, commentary on Frazier's approach, and expecting Collins to have an improved year coming off of in season surgery.

[Todd4State]

No. You've admitted yourself you expect the impact power bats in the current class to go to the Draft. That will leave us scrambling to fill their spots with hitters who are about on par with what we currently have. And when I say short term, I'm talking 1-2 years, i.e. the time Cohen will be given to fix this shitburger.

I find it hilarious that you're once aGAIN blowing our recruits like Nate Lowe while ranting about how JUCO players suck and we need to stop recruiting them. That's called talking out both sides of your mouth, last time I checked. Frankly, Cohen recruited his way into this mess and I don't see how he can recruit his way out of it in just one season. Especially considering that baseball recruiting is done years in advance.

Yes, I was totally "blowing Nate Lowe" when I said today that people need to pump the breaks on him JUST TODAY. That's called talking out of your ass last time I checked.

I expect the players that we do get to require a season or two to adjust- just as I do with every freshman player that comes to MSU. I tend to see the big picture on things rather than the immediate Adam Frazier is hitting .224 and Hunter Renfroe is hitting .106 as a freshman so they should be cut right now knee jerk reaction that a lot of our fans have.

[Really Clark?]

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed
Seth Heck - regressed
Brent Brownlee - regressed
Darryl Norris - regressed
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half
Gavin Collins - regressed this year
Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus

Come on your better than that. Detz SEC numbers were nearly identical his two years. He feasted on some weaker non conference pitching his first year.

Heck's overall numbers are the same but SEC he has struggled this year.

Brownlee was hurt his Soph year but his Jr and Fresh numbers were comparable. His Sr he was off.

Rea is having his best year in Avg and is on pace to be about the same with HR

Bradford missed a good part of his Soph year. Then bounced back to about his normal production (being off .020 points on your avg doesn't necesarily mean he regressed) and finished with his highest avg and slg his last year.

Henderson was drafted in the 43rd round and had a nice career. He did improve from his Freshman year but never got over the next step. If I spot you him will you give us the big leap of Robson? It has to be coaching. If not him how bout Renfroe?

Flair is the biggest stretch. The guy left after one year and what? 9 games? That is a moronic conclusion shows an unbelievable bias. You shouldn't even have him listed.

Garner is almost the same. Redshirted so how can you say he regressed or was not developed. He struggled with the SEC in playing a total of 24 games. And all that power 5 hr in JUCO in 44 games and 120?? Something AB.

Armstrong did stay the same. You do know that every player or every season is not an upward progression right? I mean sometimes, as hard as it is for you to understand, players just stay at a certain level. With great coaching a guy may be maxed out as a .260 hitter.

Frazier. Really? You are arguing OBP. His slugging went up. He had the same SO with nearly 60 more AB and the average was close to the same. Yeah he was doing something different he became a better hitter.

Collins has had a bad year. He hasn't been injuried any has he?

Rooker. Why don't you look at some of those LSU great hitters and see what their numbers were their second year. Heck, Foster hit .115 last year for them after hitting .359 the year before. Stevenson two years ago .193.

You are so biased you can't even give a honest look at the players. We need work on offense. No question. And you are always tweaking mech. And maybe that is an issue. Too much tweaking. I'm not saying that but you don't know mechanics so how do you know a Player regressed or not. I know that some seasons players are trying to improve for the long haul but they have a down turn in numbers to correct issues. We have had players regressed but as many have gotten better. Now if you want to debate how much better some of these players have gotten while here then that is certainly a good topic. And not all of our guys have. But that list is ridiculous and you should at least be honest enough to know we have had players get better and being a better hitter doesn't mean better numbers or that we are using the right approach.

The mechanics issue is getting so clouded with our results (you never look at the results only the process when working mechanics) and individual approach with each plate appearance. Neither has anything to do with mechanics and until you "experts" actually know and (this is the biggee) UNDERESTAND what is being taught then maybe you should educate yourself first. I don't agree with all of his teachings or like all of his drills. In fact only use some his drills that are variants of others that have been around. But at least I know and have studied some of his teachings to base my opinion. Even if I approach things differently than him I know he has a lot more good teaching than people want to give him credit for. Now is what he teaching getting lost in translation with the players, too micro managing each part and causing them to think more than they should? Maybe. I don't know but his base teaching is fine and appropriate.

[I seen it dawg]

Why does anyone take anything Smitty says and do anything more than ignore it? He shouldn't be allowed to post about baseball.

[I seen it dawg]

I want an entirely new staff. Non-MSU people. And it's not because I live in 95 it's because Cohen and staff do too many things that you shouldn't if you are going to be successful at a high level. Cohen might be the 9th or 10th best manager in the conference. We should have better and they are out there.

[RougeDawg]

And what do you expect hitters like Jake Vickerson, Jacob Robson, Seth Heck, and Cody Brown to do other than hit singles and bunt? Do you really think that Cohen, Rudy Jaramillo, Charlie Lau, Clark, or Palmeiro could make them into power hitters? That would be like Astros fans expecting Jose Altuve to hit 30 home runs because their hitting coach had a magic wand or something. Yet another example of how our fans don't understand the game.

Cohen built us for the baseball culture at the time- and it resulted in two SR's, and a CWS appearance making it to the finals. And now he is recruiting more power hitters like Rooker, Cole Gordon, Nate Lowe, and hopefully Riley and Pickett make it to adjust for the current era.

I'm pretty sure Cohen gets it. It's pretty much public knowledge that Cohen wanted the ball change to be delayed to give us a chance to adjust our roster. If he was deadest on small ball, I'm pretty sure that would have never come out.

Yes Todd, proper mechanics taught to any of the players mentioned would provide them the ability to apply more power on the baseball at point of contact. It's simple physics and leverage. Our mechanics (ie. Hands/elbows away from the body, hands too close to midpoint of body on stance, squatting too much) are all correctable items that take very little work and/or instruction. Changing any of these will add power simply by the physics of leverage. Correct all 3 for most hitters and you will see a dramatic jump in power numbers.

You call me out for "thinking I know more than others", but simply understanding physics and the specific traits of a power baseball stance don't exactly exude someone acting like they know more than anyone else. I simply can comprehend two different yet similar situations, put them together and draw an educated description.

They problem you and many others have is no "below the surface" baseball experience and knowledge base. I could write an entire thread on how and where you take your lead off of each base, depending on what you want the other team to think and/or do. Most people have no clue that you can take a lead numerous ways off of first base to influence the defense into doing something you want. The base runners who know these things can influence the defense and thus increase their chances of success. I rarely see a college player do these small lead off things. A player can take a normal lead and get the pitcher to throw over every time based on the angle he takes his lead away from first. I apologize for getting into details, because you and others cannot comprehend them and say "I think I know everything", so I will stop.

When you and others would like some insight on baseball below the surface of basic high school knowledge, let me know. Most people such as yourself, would rather discount what I say opposed to taking a moment to think about it and actually comprehend what I'm actually attempting to share with the board.

[bulldogcountry1]

I want an entirely new staff. Non-MSU people. And it's not because I live in 95 it's because Cohen and staff do too many things that you shouldn't if you are going to be successful at a high level. Cohen might be the 9th or 10th best manager in the conference. We should have better and they are out there.

By "too many things you shouldn't", do you mean they make bad baseball decisions or they are involved in too many things they shouldn't be worried about?

[Boodawg]

What power hitters have we had that Cohen has "not developed"? We've had so few to start with. Collins has been hurt, Rea was recruited as a pitcher, and Holland is not a power hitter to start with. And even Humphreys has improved over last season and I expect him to continue to do so.

I was wondering the other day why we haven't every pitched Rea. I never knew he was recruited as a pitcher. Now I wonder why even more.

[Coach34]

Hell, our closer the last 3 years was recruited as a hitter- 1B. Holder wasn't expected to pitch at State.

[Maroonthirteen]

Uhhhh.....no. I may have said it wouldn't hurt my feeling if he were gone after this season immediately following the Governor's Cup debacle. But I've also said multiple times I know he will, and SHOULD, get next season to fix it.t.

He should get at least another year to fix things. But this weekend will be interesting. If we get swept..... People will be irrational.

[maroonmania]

He should get at least another year to fix things. But this weekend will be interesting. If we get swept..... People will be irrational.

Cohen could lose every game the rest of this season and would still be back. Unlike a Rick Ray, Cohen has enough capital stored up from the NC-runner up year to survive anything THIS year, but assuming we do miss out on post-season this year, the pressure will turn up significantly next year.

[Really Clark?]

Yes Todd, proper mechanics taught to any of the players mentioned would provide them the ability to apply more power on the baseball at point of contact. It's simple physics and leverage. Our mechanics (ie. Hands/elbows away from the body, hands too close to midpoint of body on stance, squatting too much) are all correctable items that take very little work and/or instruction. Changing any of these will add power simply by the physics of leverage. Correct all 3 for most hitters and you will see a dramatic jump in power numbers.

You call me out for "thinking I know more than others", but simply understanding physics and the specific traits of a power baseball stance don't exactly exude someone acting like they know more than anyone else. I simply can comprehend two different yet similar situations, put them together and draw an educated description.

They problem you and many others have is no "below the surface" baseball experience and knowledge base. I could write an entire thread on how and where you take your lead off of each base, depending on what you want the other team to think and/or do. Most people have no clue that you can take a lead numerous ways off of first base to influence the defense into doing something you want. The base runners who know these things can influence the defense and thus increase their chances of success. I rarely see a college player do these small lead off things. A player can take a normal lead and get the pitcher to throw over every time based on the angle he takes his lead away from first. I apologize for getting into details, because you and others cannot comprehend them and say "I think I know everything", so I will stop.

When you and others would like some insight on baseball below the surface of basic high school knowledge, let me know. Most people such as yourself, would rather discount what I say opposed to taking a moment to think about it and actually comprehend what I'm actually attempting to share with the board.

Wow. You are awful condescending for someone who is actually very limited in your own understanding of mechanics. You give ridiculous verbiage of things that don't even matter or have been shown to you are incorrect. At this point I have to contradict you at every turn for fear of someone actually thinking you have a clue about a Pony ball swing much less high school and above. You keep talking about basic stuff that you even get wrong or confused about and try to dress it up like you are given insight. And you are wrong. I have given you very lengthy overview of stances and elbow positioning with some of the best in MLB, pictures and video. And you still bring it up, and you are dead wrong with your thinking. I can't even piece together what your philosophy is. You get called out because you are an amateur with mechanics who is trying to present themselves as someone who knows what he is talking about. You should stop, not because of people calling your idiocy out, but because you are given bad information and someone might use that info who doesn't know better. There are a lot of dads you are trying to help kids on here and you will lead them down a struggle. Although I will admit you basically talk about things we do wrong (that at times have no bearing on the swing, amateur thinking) and can't actual give instruction about what is correct. So us who do and have studied and worked with hitters, thank you for stopping and hopefully that is one less hitter we have to correct later in life. And btw your knowledge hasn't even touched the surface of a high level swing. So instead of insulting other people's knowledge, work on your ignorance. What could you possibly have to teach? Go study and work with hitters yourself for a few years then come back to the mechanics discussion.

If you can actually post an illustration and/or video and show and break down what is wrong with a hitter and develop a plan to just begin to correct their flaw, I will listen and maybe it will prove you have knowledge on the subject. Otherwise you are doing the right thing in stopping.

ETA. Sorry guys for the late addition to this but it was pointed out that I was so mad at the overall tone of the post I missed something important. Some of what he is talking about with our stance issues, mainly the elbows to far away from the body, if a hitter continues his or her swing with what he advocates at stance, hands and elbows close to the torso, then there will be reducing of the power considerably. It can create way too much bat drag losing power and timing. Now someone who starts with that stance but at early load adjusts to a proper position, that's fine. But you just can't maintain that position because the path will be off and possibly have considerable bat drag.



The above photo is just a reference of how differing hand, elbow, bat, etc position is between players and how nearly all high level coaches agree that at stance (pre-swing) it does NOT necessarily have a bearing on the actual swing. It is NOT an absolute in the swing. When you initiate load however, you have to get into proper position.

[confucius say]

Becasue the norm is for players to get worse.... Good grief you apologists are grasping at every possible straw. BUT even so...

Alex Detz - regressed
Seth Heck - regressed
Brent Brownlee - regressed
Darryl Norris - regressed
Wes Rea - has regressed from 2013
CT Bradford - regressed for 2 years after a good FR year
Demarcus Henderson - draft pick.. never developed
Nick Flair - power that Cohen failed to develop
Daniel Garner - power that Cohen failed to develop
Derrick Armstrong - no improvement
Adam Frazier - 2012- .482 OBP.. 2013- 398 .OBP Cohen changes his approach?.. BB's cut in half
Gavin Collins - regressed this year
Brent Rooker - .222 2nd year on campus

Yes, without good coaching and player development as a whole, the norm would be for kids to stay about the same.
And that list is garbage. Rea is a much more complete hitter now than his freshman year. You think Frazier didn't develop as a hitter his 3 years? Please. You are trying too hard and it is obvious. I'm not saying Cohen is the best, but he has done nothing but win in his 15 years as a head coach.

[GTHOM]

2 for 16. Thats how many CWS appearances Miss State has in the last 16 years. 2. Two. Dos.

I keep seeing our fans saying we are a top 10 program- and it's simply not true anymore. The 1990's ended and so did our standing as a top tier baseball school. The lack of scholarships available hurts both us and Mississippi. Bunko has made them very relevant finally and they still only have 1 CWS appearance. It's harder to win at Miss State now in baseball than it is at half the other SEC schools.

We have had losing SEC records in 8 of the last 16 years. That's not a top 10 baseball school.
We have no NC in our history- thats not a top 10 baseball school
We only have 7 CWS appearances the last 35 years- thats not a top 10 baseball school.

All this talk of firing Cohen for 1 down season after a really good 3 year run is ridiculous. College baseball has evolved alot since the 1990's and we havent quite recovered yet.

Should we strive to be there? Absolutely
Is our fan support top 10? Absolutely
Are our facilities top 10? No- but will be in 2 years

Some of ya'll need a dose of reality

I disagree that we dont have top 10 facilities, not sure how a program can hold literally all of the top 10 attendance records in college baseball history and be known nationwide for our stadium and not at least be in the top 10.


Also, in my opinion cohen doesnt need to be fired, but there is no excuse for us to be this bad. none

[I seen it dawg]

Yes Todd, proper mechanics taught to any of the players mentioned would provide them the ability to apply more power on the baseball at point of contact. It's simple physics and leverage. Our mechanics (ie. Hands/elbows away from the body, hands too close to midpoint of body on stance, squatting too much) are all correctable items that take very little work and/or instruction. Changing any of these will add power simply by the physics of leverage. Correct all 3 for most hitters and you will see a dramatic jump in power numbers.

You call me out for "thinking I know more than others", but simply understanding physics and the specific traits of a power baseball stance don't exactly exude someone acting like they know more than anyone else. I simply can comprehend two different yet similar situations, put them together and draw an educated description.

They problem you and many others have is no "below the surface" baseball experience and knowledge base. I could write an entire thread on how and where you take your lead off of each base, depending on what you want the other team to think and/or do. Most people have no clue that you can take a lead numerous ways off of first base to influence the defense into doing something you want. The base runners who know these things can influence the defense and thus increase their chances of success. I rarely see a college player do these small lead off things. A player can take a normal lead and get the pitcher to throw over every time based on the angle he takes his lead away from first. I apologize for getting into details, because you and others cannot comprehend them and say "I think I know everything", so I will stop.

When you and others would like some insight on baseball below the surface of basic high school knowledge, let me know. Most people such as yourself, would rather discount what I say opposed to taking a moment to think about it and actually comprehend what I'm actually attempting to share with the board.

Super douchetastic. Nice work putz.