Alot of our baseball fans need to realize its not 1995 anymore

[Liverpooldawg]

In all honesty we have never been a Top 10 program on the field. We had years where we were but not to the point where you could call us a Top 10 program. Our fan support has been Top 10 and probably still is. Our faculties used to be and will be again soon. The product on the field, not really.

[Out of Bounds]

I don't enjoy watching Cohen's style of baseball, his philosophy and what he demands his players do in the batters box. No doubt we'll suck next year and it'll be Cohen's last.

Cohen isn't going anywhere and he's about as close to the hotseat as I am to starting for the NY Yankees this weekend.

[BulldogBear]

I don't think we're a top 10 program, and I don't want to fire Cohen, but I do think we SHOULD be a Top 15-20 program and we SHOULD not have so many years of sub .500 SEC baseball. To put it simply, with our facilities (& soon to be facilities), our fan support, our history, our recruiting ability, and our dedication to baseball....we should be getting more out of our baseball program on a year in/year out basis. Yes, we have the CWS run in 13, and a few Regional appearances, but we should be in the hosting discussion way more than we are and have been over the last 10-15+ years IMO.

I get the scholly issues, and I know that's tough...but it's not insurmountable. And if it is, we either need to put all resources towards fighting it, or quit pumping money into a losing battle.

+1


Here's a question...

Have we EVER been a national seed since the concept began?

[Homedawg]

+1


Here's a question...

Have we EVER been a national seed since the concept began?

Nope.

[BulldogBear]

Nope.

Didn't think so. There's just something inherently wrong with that, even with the OP perspective. Not even once? C'mon

[Homedawg]

in reality, if they were doing national seeds in the "good ole days", the only time we would have ever been a national seed would have been in 85 and 89. That's it. Twice. Ever.

[HancockCountyDog]

I have to admit, reading this thread is depressing. Im not saying anyone is wrong, just depressing;

[Dawg61]

Cohen isn't going anywhere and he's about as close to the hotseat as I am to starting for the NY Yankees this weekend.

Keep telling yourself that. It's not that he's losing after being Nat Runner Up that's putting him on the hot seat. It's how he's losing. If we had good damage hitters and lost he'd be ok for awhile. If we scored a lot and he lost he'd be ok for awhile. If he had power arms and still lost he'd be ok for awhile. But he has none of that and worst of all he's teaching Little League strategy in the SEC. Seriously. It's Little League. Walk, bunt, hit for contact never power. That's what is taught to the 12 year olds in Everytown, USA. Then on top of all that he has this never ending urge to influence every game to the tune of 82 consecutive different lineups and all the Cohenball calls he makes every game. Cohen has worn thin and he's done it in record fashion. If Cohen gets fired its only because he did it to himself. MSU baseball is much much bigger than Cohen. It's a highly coveted position to be the MSU HC. If he insists on teaching little league ball that's fine. He just needs to do it in little league not SEC baseball.

[Todd4State]

A big thing that holds us back is our very own fans. Especially the Daryl Berryhill types that want to continue living the 80's- and think the way to do that is by trying to keep as many things the same as they were in the 1980's.

Case in point- you know what else happened approximately 16 years ago? We brought Ron Polk back. That move along set us back ten years. I know LT had a lot to do with it, but if our big baseball fans wanted to, they could have very easily prevented that from happening.

And then seven years after that we bring in Cohen- and some of our vocal fans were more worried about him cussing in the dugout and cutting players than anything else. Those fans demand a soft team- and sure enough Cohen has softened up and brought in some soft players- and you see the result. You also see the result of bringing in hard nosed players like Graveman, Frazier, Renfroe, Pirtle too. Heck, think about Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley, etc. They weren't soft either. And again you see the result.

And here we are now- those SAME people don't want to build the best stadium in college baseball because they're afraid that they may not have as good of a seat or that they are going to have to pay more or that the LFL might change and they might not like it. At any other place, everyone would be pumped. And the funny thing is they are probably going to have a lot better seats than they have currently- although I'm sure they'll bitch about it anyway.

Winning in the SEC today is no different than it is at any other time in baseball history. You need players that are driven and incredibly competitive. That documentary about Clark and Palmeiro pointed that out about how competitive they were as players and how they hated to lose. That's what we have to have every year if we are going to win championships. If we bring in players that are highly competitive and driven, we will win at a high level. If we have soft players, we're not going to be as good. That's also been proven time and time again.

You look at MLB right now, and I guarantee you that on a typical 25 man roster you have probably 20-22 players on average that are extremely driven to succeed. And the other 2-3 are just freak show athletes like Jeff Francouer that are able to be there because they have too much talent to not be. And even in his case, he's not getting the most out of himself because he isn't driven like a Mike Trout is.

We have too many fans that want to see a bunch of choir boys out there and meddle too much where they shouldn't at the expense of the program.

[confucius say]

Keep telling yourself that. It's not that he's losing after being Nat Runner Up that's putting him on the hot seat. It's how he's losing. If we had good damage hitters and lost he'd be ok for awhile. If we scored a lot and he lost he'd be ok for awhile. If he had power arms and still lost he'd be ok for awhile. But he has none of that and worst of all he's teaching Little League strategy in the SEC. Seriously. It's Little League. Walk, bunt, hit for contact never power. That's what is taught to the 12 year olds in Everytown, USA. Then on top of all that he has this never ending urge to influence every game to the tune of 82 consecutive different lineups and all the Cohenball calls he makes every game. Cohen has worn thin and he's done it in record fashion. If Cohen gets fired its only because he did it to himself. MSU baseball is much much bigger than Cohen. It's a highly coveted position to be the MSU HC. If he insists on teaching little league ball that's fine. He just needs to do it in little league not SEC baseball.

It's no secret his formula is pitching and defense. Sorry you don't like that. He has also said numerous times this season that we are lacking power arms (swing and miss guys) out of the pen and gap hitters. He is well aware of the problem and it is being addressed. You think he would not like to have 4 hunter renfroes? Please. The main reason we bunted more than normal early is because our gap guys were either hurt (Collins) or just not producing (hump, rooker, rea, Reynolds). Now that we are healthy and starting to swing it better as a whole, the bunting has gone down.

We will be back rolling and the far coinz crew will find smn else about which to complain until Cohen eventually becomes the new stanz around here and we have a divided fan base. Every program goes through coach fatigue, and sometimes it is warranted and sometimes not. This is a not. If I'm wrong, I'll be first to admit.

[IMissJack]

Yep. All that.....also, the baseball program has the same Achilles heel that the other MSU athletics programs have.... Recruiting talent from the smallest population base in the southeast to compete in the premier conference in all the land.

Besides scholarships as Coach mentions, this is the major problem. There is not a big base of organized baseball from age 4 to 18 like there are in most suburban metro areas. Even in our best years, most of the superstar players were not from MS.

[Todd4State]

Keep telling yourself that. It's not that he's losing after being Nat Runner Up that's putting him on the hot seat. It's how he's losing. If we had good damage hitters and lost he'd be ok for awhile. If we scored a lot and he lost he'd be ok for awhile. If he had power arms and still lost he'd be ok for awhile. But he has none of that and worst of all he's teaching Little League strategy in the SEC. Seriously. It's Little League. Walk, bunt, hit for contact never power. That's what is taught to the 12 year olds in Everytown, USA. Then on top of all that he has this never ending urge to influence every game to the tune of 82 consecutive different lineups and all the Cohenball calls he makes every game. Cohen has worn thin and he's done it in record fashion. If Cohen gets fired its only because he did it to himself. MSU baseball is much much bigger than Cohen. It's a highly coveted position to be the MSU HC. If he insists on teaching little league ball that's fine. He just needs to do it in little league not SEC baseball.

And what do you expect hitters like Jake Vickerson, Jacob Robson, Seth Heck, and Cody Brown to do other than hit singles and bunt? Do you really think that Cohen, Rudy Jaramillo, Charlie Lau, Clark, or Palmeiro could make them into power hitters? That would be like Astros fans expecting Jose Altuve to hit 30 home runs because their hitting coach had a magic wand or something. Yet another example of how our fans don't understand the game.

Cohen built us for the baseball culture at the time- and it resulted in two SR's, and a CWS appearance making it to the finals. And now he is recruiting more power hitters like Rooker, Cole Gordon, Nate Lowe, and hopefully Riley and Pickett make it to adjust for the current era.

I'm pretty sure Cohen gets it. It's pretty much public knowledge that Cohen wanted the ball change to be delayed to give us a chance to adjust our roster. If he was deadest on small ball, I'm pretty sure that would have never come out.

[Todd4State]

It's no secret his formula is pitching and defense. Sorry you don't like that. He has also said numerous times this season that we are lacking power arms (swing and miss guys) out of the pen and gap hitters. He is well aware of the problem and it is being addressed. You think he would not like to have 4 hunter renfroes? Please. The main reason we bunted more than normal early is because our gap guys were either hurt (Collins) or just not producing (hump, rooker, rea, Reynolds). Now that we are healthy and starting to swing it better as a whole, the bunting has gone down.

We will be back rolling and the far coinz crew will find smn else about which to complain until Cohen eventually becomes the new stanz around here and we have a divided fan base. Every program goes through coach fatigue, and sometimes it is warranted and sometimes not. This is a not. If I'm wrong, I'll be first to admit.

THANK YOU.

Pitching and defense win championships in baseball. At every level. If we get that squared away, we will be good every year. And this year our pitching has been way down- and really has been the difference between this year and last year. Or really any of Cohen's other four years the last five.

The reality is offense is the least important major component of the game. The reason is because if the other team has a really good ace, that pitcher can shut down even an all-star lineup. But if you have a bad pitcher, he won't be able to stop a bad offensive team.

Now, I'm not saying that offense is unimportant. But I've seen some bad offensive teams win championships. I haven't seen a team that has bad pitching win one yet.

[Todd4State]

Besides scholarships as Coach mentions, this is the major problem. There is not a big base of organized baseball from age 4 to 18 like there are in most suburban metro areas. Even in our best years, most of the superstar players were not from MS.

We do need the NCAA to help us out with some rules a little bit. Almost every bit of legislation that they have come out with has hurt us in baseball.

[IMissJack]

We do need the NCAA to help us out with some rules a little bit. Almost every bit of legislation that they have come out with has hurt us in baseball.

The NCAA has benefitted private colleges and those that are very high academic schools, because they can offer scholarships others can't. See Vandy.

[turkish]

If we aren't a top 10 program then we won't be building a top 5 stadium.

[confucius say]

We do need the NCAA to help us out with some rules a little bit. Almost every bit of legislation that they have come out with has hurt us in baseball.

Is there any chance our own legislature could help out?? I'm not sure how it works, but apparently la, ga, tex, etc... have programs/laws in place where kids with a certain gpa go free or smn. Think it's called taps in Louisiana. Funded by lotteries or smn? If anybody knows, I would appreciate some insight. Not just in la, but other states as well.

[Todd4State]

Is there any chance our own legislature could help out?? I'm not sure how it works, but apparently la, ga, tex, etc... have programs/laws in place where kids with a certain gpa go free or smn. Think it's called taps in Louisiana. Funded by lotteries or smn? If anybody knows, I would appreciate some insight. Not just in la, but other states as well.

I think Keenum can help us out more than the government. All we have to do is hand out "leadership scholarships" to fill in the gap of full tuition. It's not any more sketchy than Vandy's "hardship waivers".


It's Tops in Louisiana- and the kicker there is if you go to Tulane you get the same amount that you would if you went to LSU. So, you would still owe Tulane like 20K even after Tops. That's why they aren't Vanderbilt.

There was actually talk about Louisiana doing away with TOPS- but I think that got voted down.

[HSVDawg]

Good post. One serious question though....does anyone actually want Cohen fired immediately? I know many have vented frustration but I would be very surprised if anyone actually wanted him out the door tomorrow after allowing their emotions to subside. Even the most ardent Cohen antagonists seem to think he deserves a chance to redeem himself next year even if they don't think he'll do it. If anyone has said Cohen should be fired at the end of the year, please post their names so that they may be ridiculed accordingly.

[turkish]

TOPS is tuition, fees, plus $400 if you have a 3.0 and 23 ACT. MTAG ain't close is it?