A Song of Ice and Fire - Theories Thread - **SPOILERS** for Game of Thrones Show

[BulldogBear]

Part of your theory is correct, Trystane is in fact alive and well. Unfortunately his brother Quentyn was burned alive by the dragons. Wrong Martell.

Can't believe I got them mixed up. I still wonder if they're gonna bring that storyline and/or Young Griff next season. They could still do it and maybe just don't wanna include too much in this season. They already seem to moving a lot of Essos stuff way too soon. They won't have anything to tell in season six. I really think one of those two will be the main Essos storyline.

[BulldogBear]

So, now that we've confirmed what we suspected about Valyrian steel, I have a question for those that believe Jon is AA. I'm not convinced yet per sey, but it definitely possible. So if Jon is AA, then I think we have to assume that Longclaw is lightbringer. Seriously, just as in real world biblical passages, Bible scholars are often finding ancient texts/prophecies are more straightforward than you would think and it's usually an issue of language and translation that mystifies things. So AA has a flaming sword. Rabble Rabble... it certainly could be that its really as simple as something along the lines of AA has a Valyrian steel sword. It's specially forged, aka Dragon steel. Dragons are fire made flesh, fire has been put into the blade so to speak. So the thing I'd like to hear some speculation on is how/why house Mormant wouldve come into posession of this blade.

[engie]

I don't believe that Longclaw is "Lightbringer" in the traditional sense from the old times. I believe that Azor Ahai's sword becomes Lightbringer because he wields it. Azor Ahai would predate steel in any form by hundreds if not thousands of years, as only the more recent Starks had steel swords. The older tombs had brass and iron weapons that had completely rotted away. Hell, even Ice(Ned Stark's Valyrian Steel greatsword that was melted down into Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper for Lannisters) was not the traditional Stark Greatsword ICE and had only been around for a couple hundred years at the time the novels take place.

Jon is the battleground on many layers. He's both fire and ice as a Targaryen and Stark. Not purely either.

I don't believe there's anything special about Longclaw beyond the fact that it is a valyrian steel sword. Now, Dawn, on the other hand.

Starting to buy into the theory that there is a definite connection between the Kings of Winter(Starks) and the White Walkers. Not sure if that connection is adversarial or friendly at this point. But the term KOW seems to put them on the same side. At least in relation to Fire anyway....

[mcain31]

Since season finale is titled "Mother's Mercy", do you guys think Lady Stoneheart finally shows up? I believe that if Ramsay takes Sansa's to Catelyn's grave she will appear. I'm guessing Cersei does the walk of shame in the finale since that is also the Mother's Mercy.

[BulldogBear]

Since season finale is titled "Mother's Mercy", do you guys think Lady Stoneheart finally shows up? I believe that if Ramsay takes Sansa's to Catelyn's grave she will appear. I'm guessing Cersei does the walk of shame in the finale since that is also the Mother's Mercy.

I wish but I don't think so. I'm looking for Danaerys to ride off on Drogon as the big Cliffhanger of the season. Bronn will probably bite the dust next week though I'm still trying to figure why (in show) Hotah will have reason to kill him.

[engie]

Being that the Riverlands storyline has been abandoned altogether, I don't think we will be seeing LSH. Particularly not in a cameo. If they bring her back, it will be with a larger role to play.

Cersei will walk, but it will not be enough to atone for her sins. Been enough easter eggs this season to show that her trial by combat is going to happen, and the unMountain will represent her. Yet to be seen who will be the champion for the faith.

Just as in the books, I'm fully expecting this to end in cliffhanger, along with Jon's storyline, Dany's storyline, Stannis/Winterfell storyline, Dorne's, etc. There is not going to be any closure this season IMO...just more questions to ask... exactly at the same point that the books currently are...

[mcain31]

I feel bad for Shireen. I think either Melissandre or Ramsay will take her out in episode 10

[Uncle Ruckus]

I'm not sold that we'll see her trial by combat how we would in the books. I think Loras or Lancel will be facing Robert Strong. With the mountain 'dead' who does Loras really have to fear? There's no way he'll confess to being gay and he'll demand a trial by combat and could face Strong for whatever reason. Or Lancel will be representing the faith when Cersei demands a trial and he'll face Robert Strong. Either way both Lancel and Loras could die since they're health is in question in the books. I did see where they are casting for next season and one of the descriptions meets exactly what the priest from the island (Meribald?) would be. Maybe we'll have no combats this year and his introduction will lead us to the faiths representative and we'll have the Clegane Bowl.

[mcain31]

Starting to buy into the theory that there is a definite connection between the Kings of Winter(Starks) and the White Walkers. Not sure if that connection is adversarial or friendly at this point. But the term KOW seems to put them on the same side. At least in relation to Fire anyway....

I think I also am starting to think that old Starks make up the White Walker council. Do you think Benjen is the Night's King?

[BulldogBear]

Being that the Riverlands storyline has been abandoned altogether, I don't think we will be seeing LSH. Particularly not in a cameo. If they bring her back, it will be with a larger role to play.

Cersei will walk, but it will not be enough to atone for her sins. Been enough easter eggs this season to show that her trial by combat is going to happen, and the unMountain will represent her. Yet to be seen who will be the champion for the faith.

Just as in the books, I'm fully expecting this to end in cliffhanger, along with Jon's storyline, Dany's storyline, Stannis/Winterfell storyline, Dorne's, etc. There is not going to be any closure this season IMO...just more questions to ask... exactly at the same point that the books currently are...

Champion for the faith will be the Hound, unless they change it from where the books seem to be going. I really don't think it's gonna be this season though.

The Hound is the Valonquar... the younger sibling that will bring about her doom... by defeated her champion in the trail by combat. They haven't talked about that yet. It was not mentioned in the flashback about Maggie the Frog. It seemed truncated. Perhaps Sandor will appear in s5e10 shortly after finishing the flashback and Circe will sheit herself when he appears and she finally "gets it" about what the prophecy meant. But, if so, I still think it will be more cliffhangerish and the fight will be next season.


Ruckus, I don't think it'll Loras as he is one of the accused. He can champion himself but IDK about another.

McCain, I kind of wondered the same thing. I have read that HBO is calling the horny crowned White Walker (that sounds horrific) the Nights King. I think Stannis or Jon may be on path to supplant him if this is true. I more and more believe that the Starks were once on the "other" side (HA!), seeing as they are kings of Winter. "Winter is coming" may be a threat not a warning. "Winterfell" is possibly where "Winter" fell (was defeated) as in the final battle of the war of the dawn. Saw an interesting read on that one time but I have no idea where to find it again.

[Uncle Ruckus]

What I said may have been confusing, I didn't mean that Loras will champion anyone. I meant I don't believe we'll be seeing Cersei's trial this year, but we could see Loras have one. I just don't see the faith introducing the Hound this year without anyone going to thru isles yet. After that little clip of Robert Strong under the sheet you have to think he'll be introduced before seasons end so I thought he may face someone in combat. Most likely Strong's only appearance will be catching Cersei after her walk though and we'll have no Clegane Bowl until next year. I don't think the Hound is thru Volanquar though, I think it is more than likely Tommen.

[SheltonChoked]

A few things. First, last night's show was the best one yet of the series. I could watch Tyrion and Dany talk all day. Tyrion is in his element as Hand to the Queen. He discovered it under Jeoffery, I think he will come into his own with Dany. Well at least for another 2 weeks anyway.

I've been waiting for Cercei to get he comeuppance, although the trial by combat will be next season, I think it will be Lancel that kills Robert Strong on the show. I just don't think the Hound is coming back on TV.

I also think this is the last season for Ramsey, and Theon gets to do it. Although it could be early next season.

There will be no Stoneheart in the show. Doesn't fit anymore. The Mother's Mercy is Cercei's walk, Dany's ride off on Drogon, and Sheeren's sacrifice to the red god by her mom.

[War Machine Dawg]

I'm not totally caught up on the TV show (still about 2 eps behind), but I'll chime in here. I still think Jon is TPTWP due to R+L=J. Bran will be champion for the non-human forces. This season will definitely end with Dany being taken off to the Sea of Grass by Drogon, Jon being stabbed by the Watch, etc. I could see Theon taking out Ramsey at some point, but it could play out a different way. The Hound returning to face "Robert Strong" would be epic, but I'm not counting on it. The books *seem* to have established pretty clearly that he's dead, as did the TV show. (I should probably go back and check, but we did see his eyes glaze over, didn't we?)

I also think we can't read too much into the changes on tv versus the books. While there's no question both of them are going to the same ending, I think how they are getting there will be relatively different. Some of the important things will stay and some will change so those of us who read the books will still have reason to buy and rad them after the show ends, since GRRM isn't going to get them finished before the show is over. Plus, GRRM can do things in the books that don't really work on TV - look at the Whitebeard/Selmy gimmick. That's why I'm not overly concerned about what changes are being made by HBO. They will be things that make sense for the story they are telling but still leave GRRM room to tell the story he wants to tell in the books.

[Uncle Ruckus]

The Hound returning to face "Robert Strong" would be epic, but I'm not counting on it. The books *seem* to have established pretty clearly that he's dead, as did the TV show. (I should probably go back and check, but we did see his eyes glaze over, didn't we?)
.

People believe the hound is alive from certain hints in the books. When Brienne goes to the quiet isle they meet the elder and he tells them how the hound is dead over and over, never saying sandor clegane. Then there is the gravedigger guy there who is huge, bigger than brienne and has his face covered. At one point a dog (hound) walks up to him and he pets it. The hounds horse is also there and it's been said before than only one person could control it, if that's so then how did it get there? The path to getting to the isles is extremely difficult so that makes it even more unlikely that anyone besides the hound could get it there. Also, the elder brother says that he died on the trident but clearly he didn't as he's alive so the idea of death means something completely different to him.

[BulldogBear]

THIS^

It's the same metaphor that we as Christians use that we are dead to the old self and alive to Christ. What the man meant was that the Hound was indeed dead but Sandor Clegane was a new man Or something along that line. So he was telling the truth but also protecting what would seem to be Clegane's and/or the faith's desire for him to remain anonymous. By digging all those graves he may have even been performing some sort of penitent gesture such as digging a grave for all his victims.

We already know to be suspicious of anything that happens "off-screen' in both the books and show. In neither has anyone seen a dead Sandor Clegane. WMD, go re-read that chapter. It's AFFC. Brienne VI (chapter 31).

ETA: chapter citation

[Dawgology]

So, now that we've confirmed what we suspected about Valyrian steel, I have a question for those that believe Jon is AA. I'm not convinced yet per sey, but it definitely possible. So if Jon is AA, then I think we have to assume that Longclaw is lightbringer. Seriously, just as in real world biblical passages, Bible scholars are often finding ancient texts/prophecies are more straightforward than you would think and it's usually an issue of language and translation that mystifies things. So AA has a flaming sword. Rabble Rabble... it certainly could be that its really as simple as something along the lines of AA has a Valyrian steel sword. It's specially forged, aka Dragon steel. Dragons are fire made flesh, fire has been put into the blade so to speak. So the thing I'd like to hear some speculation on is how/why house Mormant wouldve come into posession of this blade.

Let me give you my crazy theory! Jon is, indeed, AA. When he is stabbed and killed at the end of the last book his transformation will begin to AA. The prophecy says that AA will be borm among salt an smoke and that he will pull the Lightbringer from a fire. So, as is common with the Night's Watch, they will burn his body and (low and behold) he won't burn because he is still alive and is Targeryen. So he will arise from the smoke with his sword which may (at that point) literally burst into flames. Boom...transformation to AA complete...and awesome!

[Uncle Ruckus]

I'm not completely sold he'll die in the show like in the book the more I think about it. They're making him way too important. And if he doesn't burn it won't be because he is a targ, that's a big misconception. Targ's burn like everyone else, several have died from burning. Danny didn't burn due to all the magic and sorcery with the gypsy witch that she was burning, that or she is unique and AA, which I believe. She was born in salt, one of the worst storms of their time on Dragonstone, and again in smoke with her dragons, plus the red comet immediately after their hatching. I don't know if Lightbridge will be an actual sword or if it will be dragon but she will kill Jorah or Dario to fulfill the prophecy. If Jon is indeed AA then it will be Arya that he kills with Longclaw while shes under disguise as a faceless man.

[War Machine Dawg]

THIS^

It's the same metaphor that we as Christians use that we are dead to the old self and alive to Christ. What the man meant was that the Hound was indeed dead but Sandor Clegane was a new man Or something along that line. So he was telling the truth but also protecting what would seem to be Clegane's and/or the faith's desire for him to remain anonymous. By digging all those graves he may have even been performing some sort of penitent gesture such as digging a grave for all his victims.

We already know to be suspicious of anything that happens "off-screen' in both the books and show. In neither has anyone seen a dead Sandor Clegane. WMD, go re-read that chapter. It's AFFC. Brienne VI (chapter 31).

ETA: chapter citation

Based on your advice, I went back and re-read the chapter's pertinent parts. There's definitely a few hints that could be construed as The Hound being alive. "The man you're hunting is dead." - Elder Brother I could definitely see that as a metaphor, particularly since they had tried to establish the Elder's gift of healing. That said, being a former knight, the Elder could have meant it quite literally. Certainly an interesting theory, though. The Hound still being alive would be epic.

[BulldogBear]

Well. I want a new book by next season. The Essos storyline has all but run a out if material unless they are planning to bring in Tattered Prince, JonCon, Aegon, Quentin story lines late. IdK if Jon/Ghost stabbing will take place this season or not. I hope not. I guess they've cut out Yara/Asha and Deepwood Motte episode. Shireen execution perplexes me.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Yara and Balon were credited for this season so I'm guessing he dies and we're being set up for Euron on S6. I think Jon gets stabbed at the end of the episode and TV viewers are left hanging. Hopefully we'll what Varys has been up to and Brienne storm the castle to save Sansa. What's going to happen when she runs across Standiss' army? She made it clear her priority is to avenge Renly in episode 3. What is going to be the result of Shireen? Maybe Sansa and Reek get revenge on the Bolton's due to her kingsblood sacrifice.