Reply With QuoteSlow clap.
But you'll have several claiming the roster is fully Ray's fault here in a minute.
Been a lurker on this board since it was created, but the constant bashing and unknowledgeable dismissal of Rick Ray as a basketball coach and leader of our program has driven me to write this post.
First off, I attended State from 07-11, so I witnessed the decline of the Stans era, but also old enough to remember when he was a great coach for our program. Key word: WAS, couldn't agree more with the decision by our athletic administration to let him go. People will point to Renardo Sidney as the downfall of Stansbury, but what also needs to be said is Stansbury had every chance to cut him loose... & didn't. Sidney was definitely a cancer to our basketball team, but no bigger than how Stansbury ran the program. Constant attrition (Walter Sharpe, Phil Turner, Romero Osby, Twany Beckham, Delk twins, Ben Hansborough, Elgin Bailey.. need I continue?), all the while keeping kids on our team with terrible attitudes & lazy work ethic on & off the court (Sidney, Kodi Augustus, & Ravern Johnson). These decisions & not holding players accountable was the writing on the wall for Stansbury & our basketball program during the last few seasons. Our fans, myself included, ignored all these signs (mainly because we were highly talented & competitive) until eventually the bottom fell out in 2012.
In stepped Rick Ray to clean up our broken & cancerous basketball program. One that was in decline for the last 5 seasons. Sure, we had our bright spots during the last few seasons under Stansbury, but a team will win games when you arguably have a top 3 roster in the SEC talent-wise. Talent wins you games in basketball, on the collegiate & professional level. We are learning that the hard way under Ray right now.
Our roster is currently the worst in the SEC, and you can't argue with that. Zero depth & we are playing kids that would be solid church-league players. Seriously. This is not a bash on our players post because they play hard, but right now we only have 3 quality players on the entire roster(Sword, Ready, Ware). The casual, lazy basketball fan will point at Ray for not recruiting his first two seasons. That is not the case at all. Stansbury created a culture that had a high attrition rate & didn't hold players accountable, which in turn led to a complete deterioration of our roster. Deville Smith, Wendell Lewis, Shaun Smith, Jalen Steele, Rodney Hood, Kristers Zeidaks are players that could be on our team today that have either transferred or have been kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons because they were never taught discipline or were held accountable for their actions in the Stansbury era from day 1. Throw in Travis Daniels sitting out this season & the NCAA screwing us with the Fallou Ndoye situation and this is the craptastic roster we have. I do not blame Rick Ray for any of this.
Stansbury did a lot of great things for our program, including setting high expectations which in turn has led to many of our fans ripping Ray. I'm not telling you Rick Ray is the next coach K, but I do believe we should hold judgement until he can actually field a team with a full roster. Again, it cannot be said enough, WE HAVE THE WORST ROSTER IN THE SEC! And remarkably, we lost to Kentucky and Florida(#1 team in the country) by ten points. Think about that for a minute. I believe dismissing Ray as head coach is lazy, and you do not understand what this program has been through the last few seasons. Like Bart Hyche said in his letter, we have some actual coaching going on at practice, for the first time in awhile. Our current coach is still trying to dig out of the hole our previous coach left behind. All Ray needs is time and a few more talented bodies.
Hail Damn State
Slow clap.
But you'll have several claiming the roster is fully Ray's fault here in a minute.
You have to win in college athletics to remain. Rick Ray isn't going anywhere soon, he seems to be a good coach and is very personable. What is done is done, no sense in dragging up what has already happened. Next year when Ray has some depth, he should win some of those close games we are now losing.
I don't think the school has any intention of canning Ray or not giving him a chance, so we will find out the verdict in due time. If we aren't significantly (as in winning most home games in conference) better next season I'll be pretty concerned. We will have at least 5 new faces and only losing Borchert, and we all the sudden won't be so "young and inexperienced" anymore.
Post more please
Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is
I agree with all of this, except I would put Borchert in the place of Ware for the top 3 on the team. Yes..I know.Originally Posted by OliveBranchDawg
The only major issue I have with what Ray is doing currently is Gavin Ware is only averaging 6 or so shot attempts per game. That number should be doubled.
I was not on the fire Stans wagon but did not care one way or another and I am not on the fire Ray wagon but if he is going into games next season with only 7 scholarship members of the team and he is getting beat by 20 consistently and on a 10 game losing slide, he needs to be fired. Three years is plenty of time to build a program to be at least competitive.
Ray isn't going anywhere so we should all agree to drop the talk of firing him after this season. However, next year has to show measurable improvement. I do agree we have one of the worst 2-3 rosters in the league (SC and a&m suck pretty bad too).
However, I've seen some things from Ray from a pure coaching standpoint that cause me some concern. For instance as our offense has become better our defense has become much worse the second half of the season. We don's seem to be nearly as intense on that end as we were last year and earlier in the year.
I think we have to find a way to get Ware more shot attempts as well.
Next year is big for Ray. But as many others have said it's all about talent and he's got bring some in.
it's the end of year two and we're making excuses for a 10 game losing streak instead of explaining why next year is going to be much improved. Continually blaming Stans, while certainly a part of the equation, is fun for some of you, it's pointless in helping shape the future of this program.
We need significant changes in talent level, focus on fundamentals, and basic basketball skills that any major D1 player should posses (ball control, passing, shooting, rebounding). Last year I was excited because I saw significant improvement in some of those areas that I had never seen under Stans. This year I'm seeing a lack of transition defense at times. A team that allows a lot of second chance points despite playing a man to man defense. Our best slasher dribbling out of bounds out of control on our last hope to win against Tennessee. Not a single 3-point shooter on our roster. 1 player with any inside presence. A team that depends on getting to the goal because we can't shoot outsider, but for some in-Godly explanation this same team doesn't focus on shooting free throws well. We have very little talent and we don't do the small things the way we should to get the most out of our talent. it's frustrating to watch and some of these issues should've been solved in the first two months of practice... not still lagging two years into the Ray era.
All that said, I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope that things can progress rapidly between now and next year that will give 1) fans, 2) the administration, and most importantly, the 3) players confidence that the program is going to take the next step and compete in the SEC.
I will be pleasantly shocked if next year looks any different than this year. This Ray debate is pretty similar to the Croom debate after year 2, and . . .
the problem is that ray isn't recruiting on a level that brings any hope for the future. or strickland won't let him recruit on the level. either way, the results will be the same - we just won't have the talent level to win consistently.
Whether it's his fault or not is debatable but I don't think Ray can or will be successful at MSU. It is going to take a philosophy change and coaching change to make a difference . In today's college basketball it's about image and recruiting. This is why you can sign 4 freshman out of high school all of them start and make a run in the tourney. In today's college basketball if you wait 4 years to build a program you will get left behind. Make the change now, Strick!
By the way, anyone comparing people bitching about Ray as the same stupid idiots that bitched about Cohen, is just silly.
People that bitched about Cohen were stupid because Cohen had an ESTABLISHED TRACK RECORD of success in the SEC. He had proven that he could get it done. Ray has not established anything as of yet.
I think Ray should get 4 years, but Im not happy about where we are or where we appear to be headed, but Im not in favor of firing him. Now, if you told me right now we could hire Bruce Pearl? I would drive to Starkville myself and start loading Ray's shit in a truck.
No, this is not at all true. There are plenty of SEC schools recruiting at a high level, and they're terrible. It is not all about recruiting unless you're doing so at a UK level. The end of Stans' tenure proved that.
You are right, though...if you wait to build a program, you will get left behind. Just don't ask Tom Crean...or Leonard Hamilton...or Gregg Marshall...or Brad Stevens...or Tony Bennett...or Fran McCaffery...or Mick Cronin...
Yeah, if you don't win year 1, you're toast**
Teams are playing us inside-out because we don't have anyone that can consistently create their own shots outside and hit the 3's. When you can't extend the defense = Ware practically always being double/triple teamed.
And I agree 100% with the OP. Great post.
and IDENTICAL to the Cohen debate in year 2... with many of the same players taking the same stances...
None of Cohen's track record shit mattered at the time. NONE OF IT. It's the same idiots taking the same stances with the same amount of impatience.
Amen
That is my point - those people making those comments were 10 times more ignorant then the comments on Ray.
The people bashing Ray are still impatient, but the defenders of Ray can't point to any objective basis to show that Ray can be a competent head coach. That is a pretty big difference in my opinion, and Im in favor of Ray getting 4 years, but Im also not willing to say that he has proven anything other than an ability to beat the bears which almost all of our coaches do in every sport.
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