Baseball NC One Year & Bottom Of SEC the Next (No Hoover)

[Goldendawg]

We won the NC in 2021 and no Hoover in 2022 or 2023.

OM won the NC in 2022 and no Hoover in 2023.

LSU won the NC in 2023 and may not make Hoover this year.

Do any of these programs have anything in common dropping so far after the NC or just something weird?

[Bothrops]

I think it has more to do with dwindling work ethic amongst modern kids.

[viverlibre]

We won the NC in 2021 and no Hoover in 2022 or 2023.

OM won the NC in 2022 and no Hoover in 2023.

LSU won the NC in 2023 and may not make Hoover this year.

Do any of these programs have anything in common dropping so far after the NC or just something weird?

Hmm, we had some studs and they left, LSU had one of the best pitchers of all time and he left. Not sure about OM. It's about the Jimmies and Joes.

It makes what Saban did even more impressive, to keep the fire burning that long, to get on a plane after winning a natty to go on a recruiting trip and watching film the entire time.

[CaptainObvious]

LSU will be there. They are starting to figure it out.

[Todd4State]

I think some of it is just being in the SEC. It's the best baseball conference in America and probably the world and there is a ton of parity.

We will likely never see another LSU type dynasty from anyone any time soon like they had in the 1990's. A dynasty for a SEC team is going to be defined more like what South Carolina did in the early 2010's and recently what Vanderbilt did late in the last decade.

It's difficult to sustain because of the constant turnover every year because your team is always going to be junior laden with a couple of seniors if you are elite more than likely. That's when most baseball players are at their peak as players. Too many teams in the SEC care about the game for a team to be constantly dominant and there isn't really a "Vanderbilt football" baseball team in the league. And the SEC teams that don't care as much about baseball are the ones in the high population states that produce a ton of talent like Florida, Georgia, or Texas A&M meaning those teams could easily put together a team with local talent that can win a NC with the right coach like an O'Sullivan.

So what happens is MSU wins a NC and now everyone- the LSU's, Ole Miss's, Arkansas's, etc. are now shooting for MSU. And it's difficult to match that intensity week in and week out.
Then Ole Miss wins it...and same thing happens.
Then LSU wins it....and etc.

But if you look closely I think each team also had internal factors as well. MSU got in a situation where several coaching changes and some poor culture decisions and a poor pitching coach all caught up to them. Ole Miss was the last team in and won similar to a Fresno State but they also lost key pieces of their team and also lost some of their most talented pitchers to injury. LSU lost Wes Johnson and may have lived too much on the portal and haven't matched their success because there wasn't a Paul Skenes unicorn for them to get.

[Todd4State]

LSU will be there. They are starting to figure it out.

The last spot in Hoover could come down to the LSU/Ole Miss baseball series in Baton Rouge. LSU does have Auburn. But they also have Texas A&M and at Alabama. Ole Miss will probably find a way to win at least one.

[BrunswickDawg]

Todd you are pretty spot on. I really don't think many of our fans recognize the damage done by the constant coaching turnover. Look what that similar level of change has done to football. It's a damn miracle we came out the other side of it with the Natty.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

We won the NC in 2021 and no Hoover in 2022 or 2023.

OM won the NC in 2022 and no Hoover in 2023.

LSU won the NC in 2023 and may not make Hoover this year.

Do any of these programs have anything in common dropping so far after the NC or just something weird?

They do have one thing that is different. We were dominant that year. LSU was dominant as well. We were both damn good teams. Ole Miss however almost didn’t make a regional. They barely got in. They weren’t good. Then they got in and got hot and went on a run.

The portal has changed things. Being able to add a Colton Ledbetter, Connor Hujsak, Kal Stephen, Paul Skenes, Braden Montgomery, changes things. I agree with Todd that it brings some parity.

[cujo]

They do have one thing that is different. We were dominant that year. LSU was dominant as well. We were both damn good teams. Ole Miss however almost didn?t make a regional. They barely got in. They weren?t good. Then they got in and got hot and went on a run.

The portal has changed things. Being able to add a Colton Ledbetter, Connor Hujsak, Kal Stephen, Paul Skenes, Braden Montgomery, changes things. I agree with Todd that it brings some parity.

In 2022, we could've won a regional at least if not for the devastating pitching injuries, especially to Sims.
He was the best pitcher in the nation, not just our #1.

[R2Dawg]

They do have one thing that is different. We were dominant that year. LSU was dominant as well. We were both damn good teams. Ole Miss however almost didn?t make a regional. They barely got in. They weren?t good. Then they got in and got hot and went on a run.

The portal has changed things. Being able to add a Colton Ledbetter, Connor Hujsak, Kal Stephen, Paul Skenes, Braden Montgomery, changes things. I agree with Todd that it brings some parity.

This is true. Also OM had the easiest road every to win a NC - they are only team to win it that didn't play a national seed in Omaha to win NC. They were the luckiest team of all time in 22 to win it.

Whew, so glad we won one first. Can you imagine how bad it would be if we had not?

[R2Dawg]

In 2022, we could've won a regional at least if not for the devastating pitching injuries, especially to Sims.
He was the best pitcher in the nation, not just our #1.

That is fact. He got hurt against Tulane in one of the best pitching performances of the year then we went on to lose game. 22 turns out different if Sims don't get hurt, no doubt.

[StarkVegasSteve]

That is fact. He got hurt against Tulane in one of the best pitching performances of the year then we went on to lose game. 22 turns out different if Sims don't get hurt, no doubt.

No we won that game in a run rule. We beat them 19-2. We lost the next two. Landon going down hurt but it just exposed a further issue that he held our bullpen together the year before and we did nothing to address it.

[TheLostDawg]

This is true. Also OM had the easiest road every to win a NC - they are only team to win it that didn't play a national seed in Omaha to win NC. They were the luckiest team of all time in 22 to win it.

Whew, so glad we won one first. Can you imagine how bad it would be if we had not?

This and we benefited from covid rule having additional great players, Vandy didn't have the advantage anymore. Lsu as above. Basically a guaranteed game one win each week plus having the best players on essentially two teams to pick from.

Saban had the best facilities, more staff, more money for players. Alabama went all in. We are still behind other in support when it comes to many things. The one advantage we do have is fan support showing up to games.

[Todd4State]

This and we benefited from covid rule having additional great players, Vandy didn't have the advantage anymore. Lsu as above. Basically a guaranteed game one win each week plus having the best players on essentially two teams to pick from.

Saban had the best facilities, more staff, more money for players. Alabama went all in. We are still behind other in support when it comes to many things. The one advantage we do have is fan support showing up to games.

Everyone else had that same advantage too. Actually, we lost Foscue, Westburg, and Ginn in their money year so you could make an argument we actually got screwed. We probably could have used Spencer Price and Carlisle Koestler more than we did honestly. We were basically down to four reliable pitchers at the end of the year thanks to Foxhall.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Here is the difference I’m talking about:

2021 MSU
Final record was 50-18
Final RPI was 2
Record on NCAA selection day was 40-15 (20-10 in SEC)

2022 Ole Miss
Final record was 42-23
Final RPI was 7
Record on NCAA selection day was 32-22 (14-16 in SEC)

2023 LSU
Final record was 54-17
Final RPI was 1
Record on NCAA selection day was 43-15 (19-10 in SEC]

So MSU and LSU were great all year, from beginning to end. Ole Miss was mediocre (losing conference record), barely got in the tournament, then made a big run. MSU and LSU were damn good teams. Ole Miss was just average, then got hot at the right time.

[DownwardDawg]

In 2022, we could've won a regional at least if not for the devastating pitching injuries, especially to Sims.
He was the best pitcher in the nation, not just our #1.

We were going to Omaha in 22 if it had not been for pitching injuries. We lost more than just Sims.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We were going to Omaha in 22 if it had not been for pitching injuries. We lost more than just Sims.

Our offense and defense were sub SEC average that year. So even if you want to say our pitching would have been say, 5th without the injuries (doubtful given how awful of an in game manager Fox was) we'd have still been roughly middle of the pack overall.

[Santiago]

I think some of it is just being in the SEC. It's the best baseball conference in America and probably the world and there is a ton of parity.

We will likely never see another LSU type dynasty from anyone any time soon like they had in the 1990's. A dynasty for a SEC team is going to be defined more like what South Carolina did in the early 2010's and recently what Vanderbilt did late in the last decade.

It's difficult to sustain because of the constant turnover every year because your team is always going to be junior laden with a couple of seniors if you are elite more than likely. That's when most baseball players are at their peak as players. Too many teams in the SEC care about the game for a team to be constantly dominant and there isn't really a "Vanderbilt football" baseball team in the league. And the SEC teams that don't care as much about baseball are the ones in the high population states that produce a ton of talent like Florida, Georgia, or Texas A&M meaning those teams could easily put together a team with local talent that can win a NC with the right coach like an O'Sullivan.

So what happens is MSU wins a NC and now everyone- the LSU's, Ole Miss's, Arkansas's, etc. are now shooting for MSU. And it's difficult to match that intensity week in and week out.
Then Ole Miss wins it...and same thing happens.
Then LSU wins it....and etc.

But if you look closely I think each team also had internal factors as well. MSU got in a situation where several coaching changes and some poor culture decisions and a poor pitching coach all caught up to them. Ole Miss was the last team in and won similar to a Fresno State but they also lost key pieces of their team and also lost some of their most talented pitchers to injury. LSU lost Wes Johnson and may have lived too much on the portal and haven't matched their success because there wasn't a Paul Skenes unicorn for them to get.

I see it as we have 3 years now of seeing something wrong, and now we do not have depth. Teams actually intentionally walk our 3 hole hitter to pitch to our cleanup hitter. We don't scare anyone.
LSU has the number 1 recruiting class. They may not dominate as in the past but they are about to jump out of the cellar.

We need a new coach. Whatever it all is, is not working.

[BrunswickDawg]

Our offense and defense were sub SEC average that year. So even if you want to say our pitching would have been say, 5th without the injuries (doubtful given how awful of an in game manager Fox was) we'd have still been roughly middle of the pack overall.

That's not entirety true. In SEC only:
5th in AVG
5th in SLG
3rd in Hits
4th in HR
6th in Fielding %

So top half of the league.
BUT, we had major problems scoring Runs.
When you mix that with the pitching injuries and us giving up the most runs - it was a bad combo.
Middle of the pack pitching likely still gets us to post season though. And while that's a let down coming off a Natty, people would have understood more with the talent we lost from '21.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

That's not entirety true. In SEC only:
5th in AVG
5th in SLG
3rd in Hits
4th in HR
6th in Fielding %

So top half of the league.
BUT, we had major problems scoring Runs.
When you mix that with the pitching injuries and us giving up the most runs - it was a bad combo.
Middle of the pack pitching likely still gets us to post season though. And while that's a let down coming off a Natty, people would have understood more with the talent we lost from '21.

Ahh my bad, I misremembered the stats. Haven't looked up '22 stats in about a year and must have been mixing them up with '23