Mississippi State Baseball Expectations

[BrunswickDawg]

So I've seen it a lot this year and it got me thinking...what are our program expectations year in and year out. Obviously we know we had a 5 year stretch, COVID eliminated a year, where we were probably the most spoiled fan base in the country. 5 supers in 5 years and 3 trips to Omaha capped with a national championship. That is not the norm. Now I have said time and time again that our palace was not built for April, it was built for June. So in my opinion, I think it's the NCAA tourney every year, a host every other year, and a Super every 2 to 3 years. I think with our buy in and with how we generally recruit, Omaha once every 4 years is a reasonable expectation. How does everyone else feel?

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

[StarkVegasSteve]

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

And that tough conference has gotten 10x tougher than it already was in the last 10 years. Tennessee hires Vitello, LSU replaces Manieri with Johnson and wins a national championship, Butch has Auburn rolling, Ole Miss wins a national championship, Florida has won a national championship and played for another, A&M replaces Childress with Schlossnagle and is rolling, DVH has never stopped rolling, Corbin has won 2 in that time frame and played for two more, Bama seems to actually care about baseball, and to top all of it off: Texas is about to join the SEC.

This league is just a beast that is only getting better. Gone are the days where it was LSU, State, and everyone else.

[Coach34]

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

This cant be said any better. We had our best 10 year period ever and now people want to act like that's the standard when its really not. We had a great run.

Nobody is accepting losing or becoming complacent. Lemon knew coming into this season his job was on the line. He and the team are responding. We'll see how it all ends up and what Regional we get in. The same morons saying we gonna suck next year were the same morons saying we would suck this year and not make the Tourney. We had no talent. We were too good of a program to have a kid from Purdue pitch for us. All that ridiculous crap before the season even started.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This cant be said any better. We had our best 10 year period ever and now people want to act like that's the standard when its really not. We had a great run.

Nobody is accepting losing or becoming complacent. Lemon knew coming into this season his job was on the line. He and the team are responding. We'll see how it all ends up and what Regional we get in. The same morons saying we gonna suck next year were the same morons saying we would suck this year and not make the Tourney. We had no talent. We were too good of a program to have a kid from Purdue pitch for us. All that ridiculous crap before the season even started.

And I will admit I was one of those people. But when you take a step back and look at the numbers, there was no way we could keep THAT TYPE of success. We obviously don't want years like the last two but this year is getting us back to normal. Competing for hosting on a yearly basis and safely in the tournament.

[Santiago]

And I will admit I was one of those people. But when you take a step back and look at the numbers, there was no way we could keep THAT TYPE of success. We obviously don't want years like the last two but this year is getting us back to normal. Competing for hosting on a yearly basis and safely in the tournament.

My take is leave out the "historical MSU" part, because there are parts of that where our fan base never expected more and never challenged our coach. The recruiting was outdated, while our instate rival took total advantage of that.
I can understand asking people to calm down on the past 10 years, but I cannot start hearing people say "historically". That just screams Ron Pok 2.
And currently (not from you), but we have a split on Lemonis on the boards. I see both viewpoints. Some may just be concerned our old Ron Polk fan base is coming out of people and getting comfortable to say "this is as good as we can be these days"

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Lemon knew coming into this season his job was on the line. He and the team are responding.

Let's do the math here. Fan support? #1 in the nation. Facilities? Probably still #1, certainly top3. Coaching pay? Top 10 total staff pay. NIL? Certainly top 20, probably top 15. Name brand recognition and recent success that should make us attractive to big recruits/transfers? Top 10. Recent recruiting class ranking? Top 15 every year. You yourself have gone on and on about how talented this team is and how many players will get drafted.

And yet, you take all that top 15 components and talent, you add in Lemonis as the head man, and what do you get? Not a host team, but a bubble team.

This year isn't a "response", it's an underperformance. It's only relative to '22 and '23 you can call it good. By the pure factual math of our resources, we should be a host team.