Mississippi State Baseball Expectations

[StarkVegasSteve]

So I've seen it a lot this year and it got me thinking...what are our program expectations year in and year out. Obviously we know we had a 5 year stretch, COVID eliminated a year, where we were probably the most spoiled fan base in the country. 5 supers in 5 years and 3 trips to Omaha capped with a national championship. That is not the norm. Now I have said time and time again that our palace was not built for April, it was built for June. So in my opinion, I think it's the NCAA tourney every year, a host every other year, and a Super every 2 to 3 years. I think with our buy in and with how we generally recruit, Omaha once every 4 years is a reasonable expectation. How does everyone else feel?

[MedDawg]

Sounds about right. Maybe a CWS twice every 5-6 years. Hosting is Top 16, we should get that a little more than every other year. Hosting 3 out of 5?

[Coach34]

Make the tourney and be in a Super more often than not

[StarkVegasSteve]

Also to compare us to LSU, since some people like to do that:

MSU- 12 trips total to Omaha
LSU- 11 trips from 1986-2000

[BrunswickDawg]

So I've seen it a lot this year and it got me thinking...what are our program expectations year in and year out. Obviously we know we had a 5 year stretch, COVID eliminated a year, where we were probably the most spoiled fan base in the country. 5 supers in 5 years and 3 trips to Omaha capped with a national championship. That is not the norm. Now I have said time and time again that our palace was not built for April, it was built for June. So in my opinion, I think it's the NCAA tourney every year, a host every other year, and a Super every 2 to 3 years. I think with our buy in and with how we generally recruit, Omaha once every 4 years is a reasonable expectation. How does everyone else feel?

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

[MoreCowbell]

Making a super regional should be yearly expectation. With our tradition, fan support, facilities and baseball NIL top 16 should be expected. I realize that is not possible every year but it is what should be expected.

[Cooterpoot]

Making a regional is the minimum. Every coach since Polk has made a CWS, no reason to think every coach shouldn't. The question is, how long is that minimum going to keep someone's job.

[MoreCowbell]

My problem with Lemonis is he is a good manager when he has great talent but he is not a good recruiter.

His recruiting classes:
National/SEC
2020- 17/8
2021- 26/11
2022- 5/3 (did not get top 3 commits to campus)
2023- 12/8
2024- 21/12

Vitello is what we thought Cannizzaro was going to be

[StarkVegasSteve]

My problem with Lemonis is he is a good manager when he has great talent but he is not a good recruiter.

His recruiting classes:
National/SEC
2020- 17/8
2021- 26/11
2022- 5/3 (did not get top 3 commits to campus)
2023- 12/8
2024- 21/12

Vitello is what we thought Cannizzaro was going to be

Vitello is what we thought Vitello would be. Look at the classes he brought to Arkansas and TCU. Heck he recruited Max Scherzer to Mizzou. He was always going to be a rockstar. He just needed someone to give him a chance and get out of the way. Tennessee did that. Fulmer should get a lot of credit for taking a risk and hiring Vitello.

[Commercecomet24]

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

Bruns your posts should be required reading for everyone.

I can't give you anymore rep!

[StarkVegasSteve]

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

And that tough conference has gotten 10x tougher than it already was in the last 10 years. Tennessee hires Vitello, LSU replaces Manieri with Johnson and wins a national championship, Butch has Auburn rolling, Ole Miss wins a national championship, Florida has won a national championship and played for another, A&M replaces Childress with Schlossnagle and is rolling, DVH has never stopped rolling, Corbin has won 2 in that time frame and played for two more, Bama seems to actually care about baseball, and to top all of it off: Texas is about to join the SEC.

This league is just a beast that is only getting better. Gone are the days where it was LSU, State, and everyone else.

[DawgFromOxford]

Making a super regional should be yearly expectation. With our tradition, fan support, facilities and baseball NIL top 16 should be expected. I realize that is not possible every year but it is what should be expected.

This. No reason we shouldn't be one of the best 16 teams in the country more times than not.

Inexcusable to not even be one of the best 64 teams in the country 2 years in a row.

[Santiago]

expectations-
1. not having seasons like the past 2 years in a row.
2. Regionals each year, meaning we were top half of SEC, and beat our midweek teams.
3. Hosting regionals as often as possible, to give us the advantage to launch into a super regional.
4. Super Regionals on an average of every 3 years.

This at least gives us more chances to get to the CWS.

Basically, nothing like the last 2 years.
ALSO - Evaluating talent in the portal. Going to be huge.

[Turfdawg67]

Forget a Regional, Super Regional and Omaha... how about not making the SEC Tourney two years in a row, following a NC... is a fireable offense. And should not be tolerated. Sorry.

[Turfdawg67]

Bruns your posts should be required reading for everyone.

I can't give you anymore rep!

Agreed and I can't Rep him more either at the moment. But it's the thought that counts CC24.

[CaptainObvious]

I can see one thing we have not had the last 2 seasons. State is not just selling out the Dude for SEC games, the fans are showing up as actual fans in the seats not empty seats paid for by season ticket holders. It just seems like the last two seasons of baseball, basketball and football left such a bad taste, fans were chomping at the but to see some success. And this group, though not nearly as talented as some here would have you believe, have endeared themselves to the fans by effort, tenacity, grit, not giving up (except 14-2 OM Sunday game) and desire to play all 9 innings and more if needed.

Definitely refreshing to see the change from the last two years in spite of the same bucket warmer in the dugout.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Better than what we currently are

[Santiago]

Better than what we currently are

What gets me also is this is "our year" in Lemonis's tenure, where basically the whole starting lineup other than recently added Pulliam , may leave.
This is our loaded team....before the rebuild.

[Quaoarsking]

These are reasonable expectations every 10 year stretch:

Make the tournament at least 9 times (should be 10, but sometimes you just get really bad luck in baseball)
Host a regional at least 5 times
Win a regional at least 5 times
Make it to Omaha at least 3 times

We are one of only 4 fanbases who care about winning in baseball, and at worst we care the 2nd most (and you could make an argument that we're ahead of LSU and are #1). These are modest goals with that in mind.


For comparison, in the 10 year stretch from 2011 through 2021 (remembering that 2020 was canceled), we made 9 Regionals, hosted 4 times, won 7 regionals, and made Omaha 4 times, winning it all once. That's hitting 3 of those 4 expectations, exceeding 2 of them and missing the hosting just by 1. That's a very successful decade, and one that we should be replicating in any rolling 10.

[Ezsoil]

Forget a Regional, Super Regional and Omaha... how about not making the SEC Tourney two years in a row, following a NC... is a fireable offense. And should not be tolerated. Sorry.

Well guess what I can guarantee that they will never miss the SEC tourney again ....