Confidence level

[Coach34]

I know you didn't say it directly, but what is the point of bringing up the recruiting class if not to imply something like "the future is bright with these Lemo recruits"? Not trying to put words in your mouth, I genuinely don't see what else you could have meant by bringing up recruiting

It means he is recruiting well as our classes remain highly ranked

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

He has his guys- we are watching it play out. We are ranked. Whats the problem?

Our RPI is 46 and we've lost 3 of the last 4. We've also seen LSU fall off a cliff so that series doesn't say as much as we hoped. Honestly the Florida series is more impressive at this point.

All I'm saying is we are not exactly playing at the "super regional" standard of play you say is our standard. We might get there, I could see it happening with Dohm back. But we have not been playing at that level on the whole this season

[Coach34]

None of our baseball coaches have had any job issues while making Supers. Outside of 2007 when we went on a very unexpected run, I don't think Polk 2 ever made a Super. And with Lemonis, we are coming off of missing Hoover 2 straight years. Talk about what should be unacceptable, that's it. You can't even finish in the Top 12 of a freakin' 14 team league? No realistic MSU fan expects to make the CWS every year. We do expect to at least make a regional every year or close to it and with what we pour into our baseball program I think that is more than reasonable.

Cohen got the Super after 3 years. Cohen played for the Natty in Y5. Cohen made 2 Supers or better in 7 seasons. Why do sooooo many of our fans live in Revisionist history?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Cohen got the Super after 3 years. Cohen played for the Natty in Y5. Cohen made 2 Supers or better in 7 seasons. Why do sooooo many of our fans live in Revisionist history?

1) Odd that you leave off his 8th season, where we won the SEC outright and made the Supers as a national seed (lost to the eventual runner up). This is the definition of cherrypicking stats that you took his first 7 seasons but not his full 8.

2) Cohen had to rebuild from Polk 2 in a pre Portal, pre 1 time immediate eligibility transfer era world. It only took 2 lost seasons to get it rolling. Year 3 on: Super, regional, CWS runner up, regional, missed tourney (which he aggressively addressed via JuCo transfers), SR as a national seed and SEC champs. Then Cann comes along and somehow makes a Super with like 3 serviceable SEC pitchers, and then Henderson took a very distracted team to Omaha.

[Coach34]

1) Odd that you leave off his 8th season, where we won the SEC outright and made the Supers as a national seed (lost to the eventual runner up). This is the definition of cherrypicking stats that you took his first 7 seasons but not his full 8.

2) Cohen had to rebuild from Polk 2 in a pre Portal, pre 1 time immediate eligibility transfer era world. It only took 2 lost seasons to get it rolling. Year 3 on: Super, regional, CWS runner up, regional, missed tourney (which he aggressively addressed via JuCo transfers), SR as a national seed and SEC champs. Then Cann comes along and somehow makes a Super with like 3 serviceable SEC pitchers, and then Henderson took a very distracted team to Omaha.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh and here we go.

I did that because half the fanbase wanted Cohen fired after Y2. I was online supporting Cohen and explaining that Polk 2 was ridiculously lazy. He has lost for 2 seasons and people didnt think State should have that happen. Raffo told me on the phone they wouldnt recruit my players unless they came to camp. 2 went to LSU and 1 to UPig. People were pissed Greg didnt let Polk make Raffo the HC. Then- not only did our fans want to fire Cohen after 2 years- they wanted to fire him again in 2015. He bunted too much. He missed the Tourney. He was letting our program fall. Our program was losing life.

Then we went on our best run in history. Point? Fans arent the best judge of when coaching changes need to happen. Fan is short for fanatic for a reason

[Coach34]

and to make the comparision- one of the big arguments to fire Arnett was not only was the rebuild going bad but recruiting in the future wasnt very rosey. We were in the 30's in recruiting for football.

For this recruiting class- Lemon/State is 10th in the country this cycle in recruiting rating. That's why people in the know or higher up arent white knuckling right now

[Quaoarsking]

I did that because half the fanbase wanted Cohen fired after Y2.

That's revisionist history. You can go through the archives at SPS and see that it's not true. There were a few people here and there who wanted him fired, but he had clear majority support of the fanbase, even though there was a consensus that he had to make a Regional in Year 3.

[Coach34]

That's revisionist history. You can go through the archives at SPS and see that it's not true. There were a few people here and there who wanted him fired, but he had clear majority support of the fanbase, even though there was a consensus that he had to make a Regional in Year 3.

oh thats 100% wrong. 80% of Sixpack wanted Cohen fired in his 2nd year. It was me and a couple others defending him. Most were saying Cohen wasnt ready for this big job and we ****ed up not hiring Raffo

[SPMT]

oh thats 100% wrong. 80% of Sixpack wanted Cohen fired in his 2nd year. It was me and a couple others defending him. Most were saying Cohen wasnt ready for this big job and we ****ed up not hiring Raffo

Seems most hated cohen, because he said too many dirty words. Wes give a left nut for that passion now.

[Commercecomet24]

Seems most hated cohen, because he said too many dirty words. Wes give a left nut for that passion now.

I don't approve of profanity but I sure did love playing for intense coaches and sometimes those types have to let a few fly, lol!

You gotta be who you are as a coach!

[SPMT]

I don't approve of profanity but I sure did love playing for intense coaches and sometimes those types have to let a few fly, lol!

You gotta be who you are as a coach!

I hear you! It can be overused and I grew up around profanity and use it too much, but do believe coaches of most all sports need intensity, regardless of their method. No need to direct it toward a player specifically but young men respond to intense coaches more often than not, as long as they aren’t whiners or blamers.

Baseball, especially can use an intense coach. Let’s face it, baseball often lacks the toughness required from other sports, especially physically, which often ties into mentally, where it is probably the most difficult of modern American sports. Baseball is a true sport of life.

[Commercecomet24]

I hear you! It can be overused and I grew up around profanity and use it too much, but do believe coaches of most all sports need intensity, regardless of their method. No need to direct it toward a player specifically but young men respond to intense coaches more often than not, as long as they aren?t whiners or blamers.

Baseball, especially can use an intense coach. Let?s face it, baseball often lacks the toughness required from other sports, especially physically, which often ties into mentally, where it is probably the most difficult of modern American sports. Baseball is a true sport of life.

I loved being coached hard when I played and I coached that way myself(although I didn't use profanity) but you can get your point across without it lol! Lot of kids now can't handle being coached like that but the ones that can will make better ball players. I had some that couldn't handle it and went somewhere else. You're right about baseball it truly is a sport of life and i believe it truly is the most difficult of sports.

My oldest son is a high school baseball and football coach and the parents love him because he's tough and he sticks up for his players.

[Todd4State]

Is that not the case for anything in baseball , that you have to prove yourself and "see it". We can see potential in players, but the mental aspect is so important as well.

Yes, but it's also reasonable to expect players to improve as they mature as players. Does every player pan out? No. But the odds of a guy like Nolan Stevens getting better are pretty high for example. The odds of a Dylan Cupp getting better are high. Guys that play in National All Star games that we get to campus like the PG All American Classic tend to pan out more times than not. Even a guy like Bryce Chance that I expect to be here as a fifth year senior- odds are he is going to be an even better player in two years than he is now.

This is year 6 of Lemo. Forgive me if I'm no longer buying the narrative that he just needs to get "his guys" in here, or that Jake G will "coach up" the hitters. We get talent yes, I'm not saying the recruiting is bad... I'm saying that last year and this year are completely Lemos team so why would another year of Lemo recruits be the key to victory?

At what point does "one more year to get his guys" become the definition of insanity?

Make it to a regional final or get out. Jake G and Cheese too. Parker can stay. That's as charitable to Lemo as I can be.

What is this about year six and Lemonis having his guys? No one has said anything about that. Everyone knows his guys are here now. Are you getting this confused with some Genespage post from 2005?

Whether Lemonis coaches these players next year or not is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is he has shown that he can win with enough talent- 2019-2021. That's not an endorsement for keeping him- actually quite the opposite if he keeps underachieving with his recruits. Because if he isn't our coach then someone that does come in is basically going to walk into a really good situation that can be turned around very quickly. To me, I don't care who coaches them as long as they produce.

That's revisionist history. You can go through the archives at SPS and see that it's not true. There were a few people here and there who wanted him fired, but he had clear majority support of the fanbase, even though there was a consensus that he had to make a Regional in Year 3.

It wasn't just about Polk and Raffo and Cohen. You had fans that wanted Steve Smith, some that wanted Brian Shoop, and some that wanted someone else. The biggest thing Cohen had going for him was his track record as a coach. I can't tell you how many people would come up to me and talk about how big of an asshole Cohen was in 2009 and 2010- but would then follow up with "he's going to win a National Championship here though." So there were certainly a lot of fans that didn't like him but I think on some level they also knew that's what we needed as a baseball coach. And honestly in hindsight he absolutely built our program into what we expect and want to be even moreso than Polk did. 2016-2021 was the best run for MSU baseball ever. And that's because of Cohen. 2011-2013 was pretty darn good too.

Also- fans say stupid things when we're losing too. Especially MSU fans.

[Commercecomet24]

Yes, but it's also reasonable to expect players to improve as they mature as players. Does every player pan out? No. But the odds of a guy like Nolan Stevens getting better are pretty high for example. The odds of a Dylan Cupp getting better are high. Guys that play in National All Star games that we get to campus like the PG All American Classic tend to pan out more times than not. Even a guy like Bryce Chance that I expect to be here as a fifth year senior- odds are he is going to be an even better player in two years than he is now.



What is this about year six and Lemonis having his guys? No one has said anything about that. Everyone knows his guys are here now. Are you getting this confused with some Genespage post from 2005?

Whether Lemonis coaches these players next year or not is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is he has shown that he can win with enough talent- 2019-2021. That's not an endorsement for keeping him- actually quite the opposite if he keeps underachieving with his recruits. Because if he isn't our coach then someone that does come in is basically going to walk into a really good situation that can be turned around very quickly. To me, I don't care who coaches them as long as they produce.



It wasn't just about Polk and Raffo and Cohen. You had fans that wanted Steve Smith, some that wanted Brian Shoop, and some that wanted someone else. The biggest thing Cohen had going for him was his track record as a coach. I can't tell you how many people would come up to me and talk about how big of an asshole Cohen was in 2009 and 2010- but would then follow up with "he's going to win a National Championship here though." So there were certainly a lot of fans that didn't like him but I think on some level they also knew that's what we needed as a baseball coach. And honestly in hindsight he absolutely built our program into what we expect and want to be even moreso than Polk did. 2016-2021 was the best run for MSU baseball ever. And that's because of Cohen. 2011-2013 was pretty darn good too.

Also- fans say stupid things when we're losing too. Especially MSU fans.

Excellent post!

[Tbonewannabe]

If someone wanted to fire Cohen after year 2, they weren't being realistic. He had a massive exodus with Polk poisoning the team against him. He had to completely rebuild the program.

And his actual dip in 2015 was due to having a team built for the dead ball and the NCAA changing that before the season. Ross Mitchell went from one of the best relievers in SEC history to throwing BP.

Cohen quickly adjusted and got right back to kicking azz.

Lemonis is slowly regressing the program but I am willing to see what he does this year. We at least haven't been run ruled this year.

[sleepy dawg]

3

[maroonmania]

Cohen got the Super after 3 years. Cohen played for the Natty in Y5. Cohen made 2 Supers or better in 7 seasons. Why do sooooo many of our fans live in Revisionist history?

Revisionist?? What the heck are you talking about? Very, very few people had any issues with Cohen after we started going to Supers. That is why I didn't even bother to mention him. Heck, playing for the 2013 NC was SO much better than anything Polk had done for years and years that it was a breath of fresh air. There is nothing to revise. Four out of five MSU fans I talk to wish he would have remained our baseball coach and stayed out of the AD business. He was very good as a college baseball coach but was a terrible AD. I'm VERY glad Auburn took him off our hands.

[Todd4State]

If someone wanted to fire Cohen after year 2, they weren't being realistic. He had a massive exodus with Polk poisoning the team against him. He had to completely rebuild the program.

And his actual dip in 2015 was due to having a team built for the dead ball and the NCAA changing that before the season. Ross Mitchell went from one of the best relievers in SEC history to throwing BP.

Cohen quickly adjusted and got right back to kicking azz.

Lemonis is slowly regressing the program but I am willing to see what he does this year. We at least haven't been run ruled this year.

I'm not sure how anyone can say that we're regressing. We're a respectable 5-5 in the SEC and we almost have as many wins as we had all of last year.

We're not where we want to be but compared to the last two years I don't think we're going backwards.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'm not sure how anyone can say that we're regressing. We're a respectable 5-5 in the SEC and we almost have as many wins as we had all of last year.

We're not where we want to be but compared to the last two years I don't think we're going backwards.

I was talking about Lemonis walking into a program that has been a top 10 program since 2016 and has now dropped the bar to hoping we are a 2 seed somewhere.

2016 - National Seed and won the SEC
2017 - a few outs away from Omaha
2018 - a few outs away from playing for the National Title
2019 - Omaha
2021 - National Title
2022 - garbage year - obviously didn't maintain standard
2023 - worst pitching performance in MSU history (over 150 years)
2024 - fan base now hoping to make a Regional

Not sure what you see but I see a guy that was handed an Omaha built program and he has slowly regressed it. Look at his time at Indiana and it is similar. He doesn't seem to be the guy to lift up a program.

[Coach34]

If someone wanted to fire Cohen after year 2, they weren't being realistic. He had a massive exodus with Polk poisoning the team against him. He had to completely rebuild the program.

And his actual dip in 2015 was due to having a team built for the dead ball and the NCAA changing that before the season. Ross Mitchell went from one of the best relievers in SEC history to throwing BP.

Cohen quickly adjusted and got right back to kicking azz.

Lemonis is slowly regressing the program but I am willing to see what he does this year. We at least haven't been run ruled this year.

Sure they did and were loud about it- saying the same things they say now. “We’re Miss State- we should never have a losing season.” Plus all the other takes when he couldn’t get 10 SEC wins in Y2.