Question: How many pitchers do we have out, and....

how much better could we be if we had those arms? I ask because right now, bc our coaches really have done an outstanding job to this point. I see 2 positives out of this so far....young guys getting serious experience now that they might not have gotten if our staff was healthy, and next year we will gain a few of those guys back due to when they got injured. Some won't be ready next year. I might be completely wrong, but the future looks very much like we are in reload mode not rebuild mode if the recruiting continues as it should.

Out:
Keegan James
Ethan Small
Jared Padgett
Blake Smith

Recovering (not 100%):
Graham Ashcraft (groin)
Parker Ford (since he's only a year from TJ surgery)

I'm probably missing several. And I'll let someone post how talented that group is...I know Ford and Padgett and Small were studs and expected to be starters or closers right now.

Simply amazing that we are where we are this year.

I thought there was 7 having TJ's.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Out:
Keegan James
Ethan Small
Jared Padgett
Blake Smith

Recovering (not 100%):
Graham Ashcraft (groin)
Parker Ford (since he's only a year from TJ surgery)

I'm probably missing several. And I'll let someone post how talented that group is...I know Ford and Padgett and Small were studs and expected to be starters or closers right now.

Simply amazing that we are where we are this year.

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Kale Breaux out with TJ
Billingsley might be back in May.
Ryan Rigby
Noah Hughes

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Kale Breaux out with TJ
Billingsley might be back in May.
Ryan Rigby
Noah Hughes

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Think you got billingsley and rigby mixed up. Billingsley pitched last Tuesday

Hayden Marze- Tommy John. Also had Tommy John before I think and I don't expect him to contribute for us.

Noah Hughes- Could actually potentially come back later but if we're smart we'll redshirt him and I expect him to pitch this summer and then be ready to go next year.
Parker Ford- Already able to pitch a little bit but is still recovering and I also expect him to go off this summer and pitch.
Jared Padgett- Had Tommy John surgery during the Cape season and so he should be one year out by August and be ready to participate in the fall some and should be ready to go next year.
Ethan Small- Had Tommy John surgery during the fall and should be able to participate in the spring. I expect him to be about where Ford is now by this time next year.
Keegan James- Had Tommy John this spring and I think he will be slightly behind where Ford is this time next year.
Kale Breaux- Had Tommy John surgery this season and I'm guessing that we may redshirt him next year unless he is ahead of schedule.
Blake Smith- Had Tommy John surgery this year and since he is a senior I suspect his baseball career is most likely over.

Rigby has a groin and he was supposed to be out six weeks- eight weeks from the time he had his surgery. He could potentially come back during the postseason. We probably won't push it.
Ashcraft has a groin and could be back as soon as Tuesday and probably not any later than the Alabama series next weekend barring any setbacks.
Billingsley is back and pitched well against Valley and could pitch tomorrow or start against South Alabama. I don't think Henderson will push him too much since he threw 84 or so pitches against Valley on Tuesday and has not pitched in awhile. My guess is he will start against South Alabama but I wouldn't be surprised if we use him in relief tomorrow or even start him.

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Originally Posted by Thick

how much better could we be if we had those arms? I ask because right now, bc our coaches really have done an outstanding job to this point. I see 2 positives out of this so far....young guys getting serious experience now that they might not have gotten if our staff was healthy, and next year we will gain a few of those guys back due to when they got injured. Some won't be ready next year. I might be completely wrong, but the future looks very much like we are in reload mode not rebuild mode if the recruiting continues as it should.

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I knew these guys could do a better job than I could. As you can see, we are probably without about 80% of what we all thought would be our pitching staff this year...maybe more.

Not only did most think Padgett and Ford would be rotation guys by this point in their careers...but we also figured Small might start or close, James would have started this year, Hughes was really good last year in limited action, and Smith and Rigby were supposed to be our setup and closer even as we started the year. I can't stop talking about the job this staff and these players have done to be where they are. We really aren't doing it enough justice.

Todd, can you list the guys injured and either their recruiting expectations when we signed them or where we expected them to be this year? I'd love for someone to send a snapshot of it to Kendall Rogers, Aaron Fit, Ben McDonald, Kyle Peterson, Ted Cahill, Frankie Pelierre, etc so they can really talk about how much we're missing and how incredible this is.

Glad you made a thread about this, Thick. It deserves one

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I knew these guys could do a better job than I could. As you can see, we are probably without about 80% of what we all thought would be our pitching staff this year...maybe more.

Not only did most think Padgett and Ford would be rotation guys by this point in their careers...but we also figured Small might start or close, James would have started this year, Hughes was really good last year in limited action, and Smith and Rigby were supposed to be our setup and closer even as we started the year. I can't stop talking about the job this staff and these players have done to be where they are. We really aren't doing it enough justice.

Todd, can you list the guys injured and either their recruiting expectations when we signed them or where we expected them to be this year? I'd love for someone to send a snapshot of it to Kendall Rogers, Aaron Fit, Ben McDonald, Kyle Peterson, Ted Cahill, Frankie Pelierre, etc so they can really talk about how much we're missing and how incredible this is.

Glad you made a thread about this, Thick. It deserves one

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I can try or at least give what my expectations were:

Padgett was closing in the Cape and was dominant before he went down. He and Price would be a sick combination. Padgett was a top 200 draft prospect by MLB.com

Rigby and Blake Smith would have been really good middle relief guys- I thought they would be behind Padgett and to be honest Price has exceeded my expectations. Rigby did very well in the Cape and Smith was our closer last year closing out the SEC regular season championship and Regional win over La Tech.

I think Ford is a relief guy but him becoming a starter isn't out of the question. Also a top 200 draft prospect by MLB.com

Had they been healthy I think Breaux, Small, James, and Hughes would have competed for rotation spots for us behind Pilkington. I think that eventually they will be starters when they get healthy. Breaux pitched for the U18 US National Team. Small was sort of a late bloomer who I think was committed to Austin Peay at one point and then started to throw in the mid 90's and all of a sudden it came down to us and Vanderbilt. James was named one of the top prospects in his summer league. Breaux and Small both turned down draft offers to go to school.

Marze came to us hurt and I think we were trying to figure out if he was a pitcher or position player for us. He was kind of a roll the dice guy.

Ashcraft was drafted by the Dodgers last year and he will be back and I think he will compete for a spot in the weekend rotation next year.

Billingsley was always expected to be a midweek/middle relief guy which is pretty much what he has been for his career. He's a solid college player.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I knew these guys could do a better job than I could. As you can see, we are probably without about 80% of what we all thought would be our pitching staff this year...maybe more.

Not only did most think Padgett and Ford would be rotation guys by this point in their careers...but we also figured Small might start or close, James would have started this year, Hughes was really good last year in limited action, and Smith and Rigby were supposed to be our setup and closer even as we started the year. I can't stop talking about the job this staff and these players have done to be where they are. We really aren't doing it enough justice.

Todd, can you list the guys injured and either their recruiting expectations when we signed them or where we expected them to be this year? I'd love for someone to send a snapshot of it to Kendall Rogers, Aaron Fit, Ben McDonald, Kyle Peterson, Ted Cahill, Frankie Pelierre, etc so they can really talk about how much we're missing and how incredible this is.

Glad you made a thread about this, Thick. It deserves one

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I can try or at least give what my expectations were:

Padgett was closing in the Cape and was dominant before he went down. He and Price would be a sick combination. Padgett was a top 200 draft prospect by MLB.com

Rigby and Blake Smith would have been really good middle relief guys- I thought they would be behind Padgett and to be honest Price has exceeded my expectations. Rigby did very well in the Cape and Smith was our closer last year closing out the SEC regular season championship and Regional win over La Tech.

I think Ford is a relief guy but him becoming a starter isn't out of the question. Also a top 200 draft prospect by MLB.com

Had they been healthy I think Breaux, Small, James, and Hughes would have competed for rotation spots for us behind Pilkington. I think that eventually they will be starters when they get healthy. Breaux pitched for the U18 US National Team. Small was sort of a late bloomer who I think was committed to Austin Peay at one point and then started to throw in the mid 90's and all of a sudden it came down to us and Vanderbilt. James was named one of the top prospects in his summer league. Breaux and Small both turned down draft offers to go to school.

Marze came to us hurt and I think we were trying to figure out if he was a pitcher or position player for us. He was kind of a roll the dice guy.

Ashcraft was drafted by the Dodgers last year and he will be back and I think he will compete for a spot in the weekend rotation next year.

Billingsley was always expected to be a midweek/middle relief guy which is pretty much what he has been for his career. He's a solid college player.

The South Carolina pitcher that tossed 100+ pitches today and was very good is TJ recovery pitcher- Wil Crowe

He pitched as a freshman in 2014, pitched 1/2 a season in 2015, sat out 2016, and in 2017 is a top pitcher

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I can try or at least give what my expectations were:

Padgett was closing in the Cape and was dominant before he went down. He and Price would be a sick combination. Padgett was a top 200 draft prospect by MLB.com

Rigby and Blake Smith would have been really good middle relief guys- I thought they would be behind Padgett and to be honest Price has exceeded my expectations. Rigby did very well in the Cape and Smith was our closer last year closing out the SEC regular season championship and Regional win over La Tech.

I think Ford is a relief guy but him becoming a starter isn't out of the question. Also a top 200 draft prospect by MLB.com

Had they been healthy I think Breaux, Small, James, and Hughes would have competed for rotation spots for us behind Pilkington. I think that eventually they will be starters when they get healthy. Breaux pitched for the U18 US National Team. Small was sort of a late bloomer who I think was committed to Austin Peay at one point and then started to throw in the mid 90's and all of a sudden it came down to us and Vanderbilt. James was named one of the top prospects in his summer league. Breaux and Small both turned down draft offers to go to school.

Marze came to us hurt and I think we were trying to figure out if he was a pitcher or position player for us. He was kind of a roll the dice guy.

Ashcraft was drafted by the Dodgers last year and he will be back and I think he will compete for a spot in the weekend rotation next year.

Billingsley was always expected to be a midweek/middle relief guy which is pretty much what he has been for his career. He's a solid college player.

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Thanks Todd. It's unreal to think that most of the guys throwing for us right now might have been behind as many as 6-7 others pitchers, yet they've led us to the year we're having. It truly is a "next man up" approach with this team. Cannizaro should be SEC coach of the year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

The South Carolina pitcher that tossed 100+ pitches today and was very good is TJ recovery pitcher- Wil Crowe

He pitched as a freshman in 2014, pitched 1/2 a season in 2015, sat out 2016, and in 2017 is a top pitcher

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Yep, very encouraging

Look for Rigby to be back much sooner than the 8 week mark. I believe he will be a possible option at A&M. Based off of what is known about the general nature of his particular surgery.

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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6

Look for Rigby to be back much sooner than the 8 week mark. I believe he will be a possible option at A&M. Based off of what is known about the general nature of his particular surgery.

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Getting rigby back would be huge

By the way Jesse McCord is now a weekend rotation pitcher for Samford. Not great numbers, but Henderson is not coaching him up. He got 1.5 year of recovery from a labrum TJ - I am told this is the most difficult of TJs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I knew these guys could do a better job than I could. As you can see, we are probably without about 80% of what we all thought would be our pitching staff this year...maybe more.

Not only did most think Padgett and Ford would be rotation guys by this point in their careers...but we also figured Small might start or close, James would have started this year, Hughes was really good last year in limited action, and Smith and Rigby were supposed to be our setup and closer even as we started the year. I can't stop talking about the job this staff and these players have done to be where they are. We really aren't doing it enough justice.

Todd, can you list the guys injured and either their recruiting expectations when we signed them or where we expected them to be this year? I'd love for someone to send a snapshot of it to Kendall Rogers, Aaron Fit, Ben McDonald, Kyle Peterson, Ted Cahill, Frankie Pelierre, etc so they can really talk about how much we're missing and how incredible this is.

Glad you made a thread about this, Thick. It deserves one

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You're welcome. Tomorrow is a big game for us. Would really make a statement if swept!!

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

By the way Jesse McCord is now a weekend rotation pitcher for Samford. Not great numbers, but Henderson is not coaching him up. He got 1.5 year of recovery from a labrum TJ - I am told this is the most difficult of TJs

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Labrum is in the shoulder, TJ is the elbow. But yes, labrum is harder to come back from than TJ. Also, Marze is a labrum, not TJ. The other 6 are TJ though. I know James is slightly ahead of schedule, so expect him to pitch next year. Breaux is the only one I expect to be out next year of the TJs.

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

Labrum is in the shoulder, TJ is the elbow. But yes, labrum is harder to come back from than TJ. Also, Marze is a labrum, not TJ. The other 6 are TJ though. I know James is slightly ahead of schedule, so expect him to pitch next year. Breaux is the only one I expect to be out next year of the TJs.

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Great to hear about James, I heard his situation was Labrum- glad he will be back next year

Thick seems like 100 pitchers we have out. Can't say enough about the stones this staff and coaches have. Just an outstanding job by these guys. And the turning point I believe was sending cyr packing. There was obviously some issues there and Cann hammered that situation and sent him off. It tightened our locker room and showed the guys that it's Canns way not theirs. He sent a message thru our program Arkansas wkd and the guys have responded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

The South Carolina pitcher that tossed 100+ pitches today and was very good is TJ recovery pitcher- Wil Crowe

He pitched as a freshman in 2014, pitched 1/2 a season in 2015, sat out 2016, and in 2017 is a top pitcher

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True. Typically, TJ guys get their stuff back in 12-16 months, but don't get their feel back till the next year. Anything we get from the TJs guys next year is a bonus and will likely be in relief roles where they can blow and go. It will be the next year, if we can keep some around, that you will see the big jump.

That's just the typical expectation. Hopefully some exceed it.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

True. Typically, TJ guys get their stuff back in 12-16 months, but don't get their feel back till the next year. Anything we get from the TJs guys next year is a bonus and will likely be in relief roles where they can blow and go. It will be the next year, if we can keep some around, that you will see the big jump.

That's just the typical expectation. Hopefully some exceed it.

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I don't think we should try to keep them all around. I want to have as full a deck as possible and I don't think they'll all be ready.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I don't think we should try to keep them all around. I want to have as full a deck as possible and I don't think they'll all be ready.

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Can't argue with that. Depends on progress & how they fit with what we have in the younger classes

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I don't think we should try to keep them all around. I want to have as full a deck as possible and I don't think they'll all be ready.

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Lots of time for all that Nostradamus. See how it plays out.

A lot of y'all are extremely over exaggerating how long people are out with Tommy John. It's a one year thing. None of the guys that are out this year will be expecting to miss next year. You don't miss two years unless something goes wrong with rehab.

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

A lot of y'all are extremely over exaggerating how long people are out with Tommy John. It's a one year thing. None of the guys that are out this year will be expecting to miss next year. You don't miss two years unless something goes wrong with rehab.

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12-18 months... just returning to the mound doesn't mean they're pre-injury form though. Not to mention most of our injured guys weren't developed before elbow trouble, so they'll be battling recovery and trying to develop at the same time

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

A lot of y'all are extremely over exaggerating how long people are out with Tommy John. It's a one year thing. None of the guys that are out this year will be expecting to miss next year. You don't miss two years unless something goes wrong with rehab.

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You don't understand what your talking about.

There is a big difference in "being out" & "being effective"

No one is debating about whether or not these players will be back next year, what is being debated is about how effective they will be when they come back.

Here is the issue: the Tommy John surgery is where the Dr replaces your natural ligament with either a Cadaver's ligament or a tendon from another part of your body. Thus, yes it heals & you can go full speed ahead in a year or less, but TYPICALLY, due there being a foreign ligament or tendon now in the player's elbow, it takes another 8 months to a year for the player to fully regain his feel, touch, command, of the baseball. Most times players will return in a year & see their velocity, breaking ball, etc at or better than it was before the surgery, but it isn't until the next year when they finally have the feel & touch to harness their stuff.

Basically, these guys will likely come back next season & throw like Nick Fitzgerald. The ball will pop out of their hand & look impressive, but the accuracy, feel, & touch won't be there. Then the 2nd year, they will gain the touch & feel & throw more like Dak Prescott.

Understand?

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

You don't understand what your talking about.

There is a big difference in "being out" & "being effective"

No one is debating about whether or not these players will be back next year, what is being debated is about how effective they will be when they come back.

Here is the issue: the Tommy John surgery is where the Dr replaces your natural ligament with either a Cadaver's ligament or a tendon from another part of your body. Thus, yes it heals & you can go full speed ahead in a year or less, but TYPICALLY, due there being a foreign ligament or tendon now in the player's elbow, it takes another 8 months to a year for the player to fully regain his feel, touch, command, of the baseball. Most times players will return in a year & see their velocity, breaking ball, etc at or better than it was before the surgery, but it isn't until the next year when they finally have the feel & touch to harness their stuff.

Basically, these guys will likely come back next season & throw like Nick Fitzgerald. The ball will pop out of their hand & look impressive, but the accuracy, feel, & touch won't be there. Then the 2nd year, they will gain the touch & feel & throw more like Dak Prescott.

Understand?

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I'm a physical therapist. I know a whole heck of a lot more about this than you do actually. Stop trying to lecture me on what I do. Literally the only pitchers who would be at risk under normal circumstances next year are James and Breaux because they had there's in the Spring. I don't expect Breaux next year, but as I said, James is ahead of schedule and may be OK by the start, but may be mid-season. Small, Hughes, and Padgett should all be perfectly fine by next baseball season.

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

I'm a physical therapist. I know a whole heck of a lot more about this than you do actually. Stop trying to lecture me on what I do. Literally the only pitchers who would be at risk under normal circumstances next year are James and Breaux because they had there's in the Spring. I don't expect Breaux next year, but as I said, James is ahead of schedule and may be OK by the start, but may be mid-season. Small, Hughes, and Padgett should all be perfectly fine by next baseball season.

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Ok, it's true that you probably know more about medical side of this, but I can guarantee you that you don't know
more about how TJ affects the in-game performance and abilities of players better than I do.

Yeah! Well I know more about it on both sides of it....and you're both right so there.

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Yeah! Well I know more about it on both sides of it....and you're both right so there.

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I don't know shit about it. The only thing I know about it is we have 7 guys out with it and that ain't good!

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Yeah! Well I know more about it on both sides of it....and you're both right so there.

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Ha! Good answer to the debate.