Some positive signs in football recruiting for 2019 for Moorhead

This may be just pure perception more than anything but it appears to me that we are offering more top 100 National type players. That's a good thing because if MSU keeps showing up as an offer I think it gives the perception that we are a serious player in recruiting for whatever reason. That's one of the things that Ole Miss does to help boost their recruiting some. Dan didn't offer these types of players as much.

It appears as if we are going to have a junior day possibly the same weekend that we play Ole Miss in basketball. Look, I know our team sucks in men's basketball right now. But that would be a good game for our fans to try to go to if for no other reason to give us a good crowd for the football recruits. And I do need to mention that this isn't official yet- but I do personally think it's likely.

In the past, Dan probably would have scheduled Junior Day the same day as the ACT with no home basketball game because he didn't want it to interfere with his marathon training schedule.**

Seriously, this appears to be better awareness from our staff in recruiting.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

This may be just pure perception more than anything but it appears to me that we are offering more top 100 National type players. That's a good thing because if MSU keeps showing up as an offer I think it gives the perception that we are a serious player in recruiting for whatever reason. That's one of the things that Ole Miss does to help boost their recruiting some. Dan didn't offer these types of players as much.

It appears as if we are going to have a junior day possibly the same weekend that we play Ole Miss in basketball. Look, I know our team sucks in men's basketball right now. But that would be a good game for our fans to try to go to if for no other reason to give us a good crowd for the football recruits. And I do need to mention that this isn't official yet- but I do personally think it's likely.

In the past, Dan probably would have scheduled Junior Day the same day as the ACT with no home basketball game because he didn't want it to interfere with his marathon training schedule.**

Seriously, this appears to be better awareness from our staff in recruiting.

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IIRC, OM was offering EVERY top 100 player (maybe even top 300), and while it may seem "whorish", I think it was a pretty good idea... I mean, what have you got to lose, some free print? Hell, if I was Moorehead/MSU, I'd offer consider a similar tactic, sans the shenanigans...

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Originally Posted by TUSK

IIRC, OM was offering EVERY top 100 player (maybe even top 300), and while it may seem "whorish", I think it was a pretty good idea... I mean, what have you got to lose, some free print? Hell, if I was Moorehead/MSU, I'd offer consider a similar tactic, sans the shenanigans...

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Yeah I'm not sure why every P5 school doesn't do that.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

IIRC, OM was offering EVERY top 100 player (maybe even top 300)

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I wonder how much they spent?

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

I wonder how much they spent?

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Not much on a blanket offer. It's whatever paper costs to send them the offer.

Could we invite them to the Dude instead of basketball? I'm sure a half built Dude is better then the product we put in the Hump.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

This may be just pure perception more than anything but it appears to me that we are offering more top 100 National type players. That's a good thing because if MSU keeps showing up as an offer I think it gives the perception that we are a serious player in recruiting for whatever reason. That's one of the things that Ole Miss does to help boost their recruiting some. Dan didn't offer these types of players as much.

It appears as if we are going to have a junior day possibly the same weekend that we play Ole Miss in basketball. Look, I know our team sucks in men's basketball right now. But that would be a good game for our fans to try to go to if for no other reason to give us a good crowd for the football recruits. And I do need to mention that this isn't official yet- but I do personally think it's likely.

In the past, Dan probably would have scheduled Junior Day the same day as the ACT with no home basketball game because he didn't want it to interfere with his marathon training schedule.**

Seriously, this appears to be better awareness from our staff in recruiting.

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That's b/c he was too busy looking for that 2* diamond in the rough.

Remember the rumor I posted a week ago that TBuck was appalled at our laziness in recruiting. Compared to FSU we were WAAAAAAAAY behind the 8 ball. Dan told him that he didn't waste time on big name guys. So, TBuck goes into FL and gets a 4* guy that Dan said we couldn't get.

I told you all a few weeks ago....it wasn't just the alleged money and whores that Ole Miss used in recruiting it was also OUR staff's lazy approach to recruiting. If our staff had put in half the effort the Ole Miss staff did then we wouldn't have seen so many flips, drama, etc. Things are going to change drastically with this new staff in here. There are some real fighters on it that excel at recruiting.

Things are changing drastically in that area. Plus, even though Ole Miss was slapped on the wrist, they are still on probation. Don't think for a second that a BUNCH of folks aren't watching their recruiting process very closely.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Not much on a blanket offer. It's whatever paper costs to send them the offer.

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If you want to make an impact on them, visit them. I'd send everyone out in pairs and divide up the top 100 among them and visit each kid. 16 of this years Top 100 on 247 are in Georgia, and 4 more are close to the GA boarder. That's 20% of the list in a few days of driving. You catch 1 of those kids and it is worth it. There are enough kids from the SEC footprint in the Top 300 that if we just focused on those we would be a step up from whatever it was the Country Club was doing.

Good post Todd.

I think in some ways when Don got to MSU he had to run the the football program like a small business because it was.

However, as we see in business, many small businesses have trouble changing their mindset once they become a bigger business.

I see Moorhead & co as a management company that observed this small business doing well, forming a niche market, & saying we can take this to the next level.

Great post Todd.

if you remember-the Slytanic was going to recruit Cally and bring those players to State. How did that work? face it-we must recruit-Ms-Al-TN-LA and sometime TX and FL. IMHO we are wasting our time and Money trying to recruit Nationally. our biggest advantage is MS JUCO.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

This may be just pure perception more than anything but it appears to me that we are offering more top 100 National type players. That's a good thing because if MSU keeps showing up as an offer I think it gives the perception that we are a serious player in recruiting for whatever reason. That's one of the things that Ole Miss does to help boost their recruiting some. Dan didn't offer these types of players as much.

It appears as if we are going to have a junior day possibly the same weekend that we play Ole Miss in basketball. Look, I know our team sucks in men's basketball right now. But that would be a good game for our fans to try to go to if for no other reason to give us a good crowd for the football recruits. And I do need to mention that this isn't official yet- but I do personally think it's likely.

In the past, Dan probably would have scheduled Junior Day the same day as the ACT with no home basketball game because he didn't want it to interfere with his marathon training schedule.**

Seriously, this appears to be better awareness from our staff in recruiting.

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If Moorhead's offense is really Chip Kelly Part II, I would agree with you. We won't know that until next year most likely. Right now, I still think we need to recruit the way Mississippi State recruits - circle in on Mississippi players and other overlooked players from surrounding states (the 5 hour drive time as Muffins said), and show them how much we want them to come help us build something. Blanket offering kids from around the country runs contrary that, and could work against us.

Once we get a reputation like Oregon's, we can recruit more nationally.

Dan loved and ate up the “developer of player” and turning 2 and 3 stars into sec players that the media labeled him as.
It was safe for Dan. If they were just average or didn’t contribute oh well they weren’t suppose to be good. If they became SEC guys and Pros, Hey look at me I’m a genius and can find talent and develope it.

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

Dan loved and ate up the ?developer of player? and turning 2 and 3 stars into sec players that the media labeled him as.
It was safe for Dan. If they were just average or didn?t contribute oh well they weren?t suppose to be good. If they became SEC guys and Pros, Hey look at me I?m a genius and can find talent and develope it.

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I am not fan of Dan Mullen (anymore) but lets not go off the cliff here. He did a good job developing players and that was his MO from the first day he got here. His first speech as coach he intended to recruit the raw talent within 5 hours of Starkville and coach them up. It was a good strategy, and one Moorhead should not ignore.

Considering one coach on staff said the handcuffs have been take off recruiting now, I'm going to agree the last staff was lazy as 17.

Teddy Ginn Jr.—-Our Track Coach had him lined up to visit. Croom told him he had better recevers lined up. Ginn was down to MSU & Ohio st.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Considering one coach on staff said the handcuffs have been take off recruiting now, I'm going to agree the last staff was lazy as 17.

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Some folks have forgotten the stories out of camp over the years. Billy G basically saying if they don't come to our camp he doesn't want them.

I'm sure Moorhead will get a good bit of talent out of MS/AL/LA but we can't let opportunities to get in with some national guys go by. Dan let our #1 ranking go to waste. We could have been in the discussion for some national talent had that been used better by the staff.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I'm sure Moorhead will get a good bit of talent out of MS/AL/LA but we can't let opportunities to get in with some national guys go by. Dan let our #1 ranking go to waste. We could have been in the discussion for some national talent had that been used better by the staff.

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No question on this. Again, Dax Muffins' legacy is what he failed to accomplish.

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Originally Posted by 5049

I am not fan of Dan Mullen (anymore) but lets not go off the cliff here. He did a good job developing players and that was his MO from the first day he got here. His first speech as coach he intended to recruit the raw talent within 5 hours of Starkville and coach them up. It was a good strategy, and one Moorhead should not ignore.

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I never said he wasn’t good in that area. Just saying he and the staff was lazy in recruiting and didn’t go after some guys that with more effort we may could have closed.
You can’t just recruit the state of Miss and compete with the big boys.

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

Dan loved and ate up the “developer of player” and turning 2 and 3 stars into sec players that the media labeled him as.
It was safe for Dan. If they were just average or didn’t contribute oh well they weren’t suppose to be good. If they became SEC guys and Pros, Hey look at me I’m a genius and can find talent and develope it.

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An excellent post that I agree wholeheartedly with.

If I may take Ari's point and extrapolate a bit (too far): I think that was Dan's entire mindset about the football program. It was safe to take 3 star kids and try to develop them (which he was good at). If they don't pan out, you can't call the kid a "bust" and blame it on Dan. But I also think Dan thought that way about MSU as a whole. He could take safe/conservative philosophies on playcalling, coach staffing, recruiting, etc., and if he wasn't successful, the media would always blame it on po old 3* MSU not being meant to be a major program. Meanwhile, if Dan had been aggressive and failed, it might have looked bad on him--like his ideas didn't work.

Let's face it. Two things can be true at the same time:
1) It isn't that hard to win 6 games at MSU and go to a bowl. We're an SEC school and have 4 or so automatic wins every year. But the media doesn't spin it this way. Their narrative makes it such that winning 6 games here is a major accomplishment.
2) For Dan, because of (1), there weren't a ton of incentives to excel. He could coast for a few years, go to bowl games, enjoy the country club, and some bigger program was going to have to hire him eventually.

Because the media spins six wins in Starkville as an accomplishment of monumental proportions, Dan was smart to just do simply that and coast. Just take 3* kids and coast. Just hire your friends as coaches and coast. As long as you win 6 games at MSU, you'll always be considered a good coach by the media.

There are programs that people call "sleeping giants." MSU isn't one of them, probably, but I think MSU had an awakening of its own a few years ago: modernizing the football program. Before Dan, our horrible athletic leadership had led us to CUSA-level facilities and expectations. Dan played a crucial part (along with Stricklin) in updating facilities. But once the facilities were updated, Dan had the easiest job in football. We gave him top notch facilities, and then only asked for 6 wins a year for him to be considered an excellent coach.

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold

Dan loved and ate up the ?developer of player? and turning 2 and 3 stars into sec players that the media labeled him as.
It was safe for Dan. If they were just average or didn?t contribute oh well they weren?t suppose to be good. If they became SEC guys and Pros, Hey look at me I?m a genius and can find talent and develope it.

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Even h/s coaches said he doesn't have SEC speed and would be better at LB....

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Some folks have forgotten the stories out of camp over the years. Billy G basically saying if they don't come to our camp he doesn't want them.

I'm sure Moorhead will get a good bit of talent out of MS/AL/LA but we can't let opportunities to get in with some national guys go by. Dan let our #1 ranking go to waste. We could have been in the discussion for some national talent had that been used better by the staff.

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1st part of post is exactly what BG told me at a signing day event in Gulfport in 2013. I asked him if he was kidding.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

That's b/c he was too busy looking for that 2* diamond in the rough.

Remember the rumor I posted a week ago that TBuck was appalled at our laziness in recruiting. Compared to FSU we were WAAAAAAAAY behind the 8 ball. Dan told him that he didn't waste time on big name guys. So, TBuck goes into FL and gets a 4* guy that Dan said we couldn't get.

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Who is this Dan guy?

Our last coach was lazy and arrogant. He was too lazy to battle other programs for top 300 guys. His arrogance gave him the mindset that he invented football and didn?t need to upgrade talent to win as much as he needed. Apparently he only needed to win enough to get another gig. Everything now makes sense in that he truly never intended on giving relentless effort to win big here. He was doing just enough to get a ?better gig?.

Regarding JoMo, I think he knows how to relate to these kids. When Saquon Barkley goes high in the first round it should only help our recruiting.

We aren't a big enough name to get a ton of Top 100 guys to come to camp. Same for a lot of the Top 300 guys. Let's be honest. At face value, taking rankings, history, and prestige into consideration, we are going to lose every time to at least 15-20 programs. If you are a teenager that is highly ranked and you only have time to go to 3 or 4 camps, ours is probably not one of them unless you are in state, in the area, or have a connection by some other means.

So we have to work harder if we want those guys. We can't be pissed if they don't come to campus for camp. Those guys now go to camps either as individuals or with their teams at 7 on 7 stuff. So we have to work harder to get them if we are going to truly compete against top tier programs for recruits.

Moorhead and company are already working harder by offering guys that we normally wouldn't. We are going to have to work to get top kids to come to campus. And I don't think it's crazy to try and recruit nationally if you have the right connections and understand a player's mindset. Kids far away may have extended family near you or family members in position to make a move, may like the feel of your campus better, may like the personality of your staff better, may like the style of offense/defense you run. Or might have buddies on your team that they met through camp. Teenagers have all kinds of reasons they make decisions and we never took advantage of that under Mullen.

We developed great talent under Mullen. But developing talent and getting highly rated talent aren't mutually exclusive. Moorhead I think is about to show us that.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Who is this Dan guy?

Our last coach was lazy and arrogant. He was too lazy to battle other programs for top 300 guys. His arrogance gave him the mindset that he invented football and didn?t need to upgrade talent to win as much as he needed. Apparently he only needed to win enough to get another gig. Everything now makes sense in that he truly never intended on giving relentless effort to win big here. He was doing just enough to get a ?better gig?.

Regarding JoMo, I think he knows how to relate to these kids. When Saquon Barkley goes high in the first round it should only help our recruiting.

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If that last coach, Doug McGrudder or something, had put that relentless effort he kept talking about into his coaching and especially in recruiting he would have won a NC in 2014.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Who is this Dan guy?

Our last coach was lazy and arrogant. He was too lazy to battle other programs for top 300 guys. His arrogance gave him the mindset that he invented football and didn?t need to upgrade talent to win as much as he needed. Apparently he only needed to win enough to get another gig. Everything now makes sense in that he truly never intended on giving relentless effort to win big here. He was doing just enough to get a ?better gig?.

Regarding JoMo, I think he knows how to relate to these kids. When Saquon Barkley goes high in the first round it should only help our recruiting.

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Yep, we not only have the Offensive Coordinator who used him properly but the RB coach who developed him. Coach Moorhead is about to make Kylin some money.

I get the feeling we are about to enter a new era of MSU recruiting. Coach JoMo just looks and acts like a man who's driven to succeed and I think he's gonna change the way we have recruited and athletes we get. I believe danny boy was arrogant and cocky, while Coach JoMo is confident and sure of himself, big difference in those 2 personality types. I still think his main focus will be in MS and and surrounding states but I also bet you see us get in on some guys danny boy would've never even contacted.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I get the feeling we are about to enter a new era of MSU recruiting. Coach JoMo just looks and acts like a man who's driven to succeed and I think he's gonna change the way we have recruited and athletes we get. I believe danny boy was arrogant and cocky, while Coach JoMo is confident and sure of himself, big difference in those 2 personality types. I still think his main focus will be in MS and and surrounding states but I also bet you see us get in on some guys danny boy would've never even contacted.

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Coach Joe will put the team ahead of his ego. You can tell that in the interviews he's given. He will do what's best for the team. Don Merlin could never do that. It was always about him and stroking his ego.

I think we are about to see a jump in our average recruiting rankings over the next few years. And I think Joe is going to make us a perennial top 10 team.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Coach Joe will put the team ahead of his ego. You can tell that in the interviews he's given. He will do what's best for the team. Don Merlin could never do that. It was always about him and stroking his ego.

I think we are about to see a jump in our average recruiting rankings over the next few years. And I think Joe is going to make us a perennial top 10 team.

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I don't know about a perennial top 10 team every year- but I do think we will come much closer to reaching our potential than we ever did under Dan.

I think our recruiting philosophy is going to be or should be:

1. Recruit the very best in Mississippi. We did this under Dan except for most of the highly rated offensive players. The fact that we know Dan's Country Club was lazy recruiting on the offensive side of the ball plus the fact that we have gotten most of the highly rated defensive players in the state despite the fact that Ole Miss was offering them a ton of money also gives me hope that Joe can clean it up with some effort.

2. Recruit Louisiana the next hardest. Only one SEC team compared to two in Alabama and Tennessee for that matter. Not nearly as dirty as recruiting in Memphis. LSU potentially being down could really help us too- not to mention Dak, Josh, Key, and now Whop being from there and hopefully having success at MSU among others.

3. Recruit Memphis and Alabama.

4. Recruit Nationally. Assign each staff member 10 of the top 100 players to be responsible for recruiting. We may not get any of them. But if we even get one it could give us a nice boost. You never know if you don't recruit them- although I do agree we can't make a living off of trying to recruit nationally. This is more for perception with the recruiting services than anything- which may increase the rating of the players that we actually do get to MSU.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I don't know about a perennial top 10 team every year- but I do think we will come much closer to reaching our potential than we ever did under Dan.

I think our recruiting philosophy is going to be or should be:

1. Recruit the very best in Mississippi. We did this under Dan except for most of the highly rated offensive players. The fact that we know Dan's Country Club was lazy recruiting on the offensive side of the ball plus the fact that we have gotten most of the highly rated defensive players in the state despite the fact that Ole Miss was offering them a ton of money also gives me hope that Joe can clean it up with some effort.

2. Recruit Louisiana the next hardest. Only one SEC team compared to two in Alabama and Tennessee for that matter. Not nearly as dirty as recruiting in Memphis. LSU potentially being down could really help us too- not to mention Dak, Josh, Key, and now Whop being from there and hopefully having success at MSU among others.

3. Recruit Memphis and Alabama.

4. Recruit Nationally. Assign each staff member 10 of the top 100 players to be responsible for recruiting. We may not get any of them. But if we even get one it could give us a nice boost. You never know if you don't recruit them- although I do agree we can't make a living off of trying to recruit nationally. This is more for perception with the recruiting services than anything- which may increase the rating of the players that we actually do get to MSU.

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5. Create an Elitedawgs' account to tell us to relax and he got this shit!

I wanna see more of the same swagger that he had when he told Farrod Green and Simmons to get their ring sizes bc they're going to need it.

Im tired of hearing, thinking, talking about Dan Mullen. Shit on Dan Mullen. If he wanted to be here he'd be here, he wouldnt have tried to leave at least 3 times.

Im tired of hearing the perception that ''MS State won bc of Mullen, he did an outstanding job there.'' We won bc we are MS State. We're about to show everyone that.

There shouldnt be another program in the country that is more hungry, or plays angrier than we do in 2018

Go to the basketball games to support the basketball team not just cause it looks good to junior football recruits. Damn how did our fanbase get so shitty towards men's hoops? It's really bad

Todd made a pretty strong list... not that y'all care, but I'd summarize it like this (for MSU 2018):

1. Smoke the shit out of the Top 5-10 Mississippi HS players each year. ie: get 66+% of the 4-5 star guys (33% to: bammer, au, lsu, usm, om, ark, etc)... Forget the rest, unless they are "backup plans" or "HS relationship plans"...
2. If you get a kickass Frosh, throw his ass to the wolves (screw "development"/redshirting)... if he's a stud, put him on the field; even if only on ST...
3. Target AL & LA harder... UA is (IMO) neglecting the state to go more "national"... take advantage of that. Also, with the dumpster fire that is LSU, get some cats there, too.
4. Process more.
5. Hammer every single top 300 (needed) position group guy...

ps- Shirley, someone has already thought of this, no?

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Todd made a pretty strong list... not that y'all care, but I'd summarize it like this (for MSU 2018):

1. Smoke the shit out of the Top 5-10 Mississippi HS players each year. ie: get 66+% of the 4-5 star guys (33% to: bammer, au, lsu, usm, om, ark, etc)... Forget the rest, unless they are "backup plans" or "HS relationship plans"...
2. If you get a kickass Frosh, throw his ass to the wolves (screw "development"/redshirting)... if he's a stud, put him on the field; even if only on ST...
3. Target AL & LA harder... UA is (IMO) neglecting the state to go more "national"... take advantage of that. Also, with the dumpster fire that is LSU, get some cats there, too.
4. Process more.
5. Hammer every single top 300 (needed) position group guy...

ps- Shirley, someone has already thought of this, no?

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Good point about Alabama.

As far as your ps- that's what frustrated so many of us about Dan. What I'm talking about is mostly common sense. Or it should be.

And I can understand the wool getting pulled over his eyes at the Army AAG in 2011. But the bad thing was it didn't seem like Dan did much to change anything.

Also remember this...Moorhead watched for 2 years how to recruit as a staff from one of the best recruiters in the business - James Franklin. I am sure he got a lot of ideas from him.

This is an uninformed post

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Todd made a pretty strong list... not that y'all care, but I'd summarize it like this (for MSU 2018):

1. Smoke the shit out of the Top 5-10 Mississippi HS players each year. ie: get 66+% of the 4-5 star guys (33% to: bammer, au, lsu, usm, om, ark, etc)... Forget the rest, unless they are "backup plans" or "HS relationship plans"...
2. If you get a kickass Frosh, throw his ass to the wolves (screw "development"/redshirting)... if he's a stud, put him on the field; even if only on ST...
3. Target AL & LA harder... UA is (IMO) neglecting the state to go more "national"... take advantage of that. Also, with the dumpster fire that is LSU, get some cats there, too.
4. Process more.
5. Hammer every single top 300 (needed) position group guy...

ps- Shirley, someone has already thought of this, no?

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Yeah, you aren't going to be able to "process" and replace with another 5 * like y'all used to. The 25 hard signing cap each year is going to nip that shit in the bud. Going forward; if you miss on one, you won't be able to process him, and oversign 5*'s the next year.

The Cecil and CJ ordeals made him say say to heck with it recruiting wise, I’ll take the recruits willing to come here and do the best I can approach.

He didn’t love recruiting to begin with and experiencing the network made him hate it I think. Losing Tee Sheperd when we needed corners and they just flipped his dad to hurt our roster affected Dan as well.

It’ll be interesting to see if Florida will recruit itself with that staff.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Good point about Alabama.

As far as your ps- that's what frustrated so many of us about Dan. What I'm talking about is mostly common sense. Or it should be.

And I can understand the wool getting pulled over his eyes at the Army AAG in 2011. But the bad thing was it didn't seem like Dan did much to change anything.

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I would also throw in concentrating on Georgia. We have gotten a lot of good players out of GA including Preston Smith. It seemed like Jackie always had a Dline or LB from GA that was a badass. Atlanta is only 4 1/2 hours from Starkville so it is about the same as it is to New Orleans. Throw in the hook ups that the staff have similar to TBuck in FL and that is a pretty good recruiting base.