For the few that doubt Cann and his methods

Let's look back at the CWS finals going back to 2013.

2013- MSU and UCLA. End of the dead ball era.
2014- Vanderbilt and Virginia. SEC team with scouting ties wins the NC.
2015- Vanderbilt and Virginia. SEC team with scouting ties finishes as the National runner-up.
2016- Coastal Carolina and Arizona. Exception to the rule mid major wins NC. Insert "that's baseball" or whatever quote you want to use.
2017- LSU and Florida. Two SEC teams with scouting or very recent former scouting ties in the finals.

Since 2014 the three teams with scouting ties have made it to Omaha:

Vanderbilt- twice
LSU- twice
Florida- three times

This doesn't include three other times that Florida went to Omaha under O'Sullivan and one other time with Corbin. I didn't include Manieri's CWS appearances before 2014 because that was before he hired Cann and had acquired MLB scouting ties.

It took Corbin a while to build Vanderbilt into a powerhouse. A lot of that is because Vanderbilt did not have a winning tradition before Corbin came along plus they do not have a huge fanbase to support them. Vanderbilt was also in the worst shape of the programs I am comparing.

O?Sullivan took over a program that missed the postseason but he is in a very talent rich state and with his assistants scouting ties they were able to rebuild themselves up very quickly. Florida also has a history of winning in baseball as well.

Manieri was starting to get on the hot seat and his offense was struggling when he brought in Cannizaro. Obviously they were in a good situation relatively speaking even if they weren?t quite where they wanted to be. Cannizaro took their hitting to the next level and was able to increase LSU?s recruiting profile to get them back to where they wanted to be before deciding to move on and launch a new dynasty at Mississippi State.

Cannizaro already has us at Super Regional level in year one. We will see what happens in year two but with a roster that is still not his for the most part and stadium construction going on I will be fine with a Super Regional again in 2018. We have now hired Jake Gautreau and we will see what he brings to our program with his connections and also his ability to evaluate talent. By 2019 I think Cann will have weeded out our problems- no pun intended- and we will have a CWS type team to go along with our new stadium.

Great post Todd, we are a galaxy away from the elite teams in talent level. We have been hanging "in there" over the last 20 years while Florida, Vandy, and LSU have become true Omaha and NC programs.

In that time span we have generally been Maxing-Out to Omaha or 2nd-Place in the SEC West, I love Cann's commitment to being in perennial NC contention.

I think we're pretty close. We're in better shape than Vandy was when Corbin took over and probably better than Florida was but without the massive talent pool in our backyard. Since 2011 we've been to four SR's, the CWS making the finals, and have won the SEC and SEC Tournament. That's pretty good and the only thing that anyone would ever want to add to that would a NC. I think we have to keep getting the best guys from Mississippi like Cohen did do when he was here and then fill in the blanks with elite out of state talent and I think that will be the basic plan that Cann is going to have for us. The difference is Cohen tried to fill most of those blanks with JUCO's. We've been able to recruit Alabama pretty well but that may change some or at least get harder with Butch and Brad Bohannon in charge at Auburn and Alabama now.

Speaking of team talent level...

As I've been casually watching the CWS, the one phrase I keep hearing repeated (especially as it relates to LSU) is that these CWS teams have "shortstops all over the field". The context of this statement is something to the effect that the teams in the CWS recruited the best athletes they could find (most of whom played SS in high school or select ball) and fit them in the line-up where they had needs.

I obviously haven't done the research to determine whether this is an accurate assessment by the CWS talking heads, but it does bring up an interesting discussion topic. If true, it seems to indicate that the "secret formula" in this era of college baseball is to sign the best talent out there regardless of position then find a way to get them on the field. If that's the case, I think we have a winner with Cann because he can obviously find talent. Not to mention that all of his players (current and former) seem to love playing for him which should help in the recruiting department (signing the talent he finds).

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Let's look back at the CWS finals going back to 2013.

2013- MSU and UCLA. End of the dead ball era.
2014- Vanderbilt and Virginia. SEC team with scouting ties wins the NC.
2015- Vanderbilt and Virginia. SEC team with scouting ties finishes as the National runner-up.
2016- Coastal Carolina and Arizona. Exception to the rule mid major wins NC. Insert "that's baseball" or whatever quote you want to use.
2017- LSU and Florida. Two SEC teams with scouting or very recent former scouting ties in the finals.

Since 2014 the three teams with scouting ties have made it to Omaha:

Vanderbilt- twice
LSU- twice
Florida- three times

This doesn't include three other times that Florida went to Omaha under O'Sullivan and one other time with Corbin. I didn't include Manieri's CWS appearances before 2014 because that was before he hired Cann and had acquired MLB scouting ties.

It took Corbin a while to build Vanderbilt into a powerhouse. A lot of that is because Vanderbilt did not have a winning tradition before Corbin came along plus they do not have a huge fanbase to support them. Vanderbilt was also in the worst shape of the programs I am comparing.

O?Sullivan took over a program that missed the postseason but he is in a very talent rich state and with his assistants scouting ties they were able to rebuild themselves up very quickly. Florida also has a history of winning in baseball as well.

Manieri was starting to get on the hot seat and his offense was struggling when he brought in Cannizaro. Obviously they were in a good situation relatively speaking even if they weren?t quite where they wanted to be. Cannizaro took their hitting to the next level and was able to increase LSU?s recruiting profile to get them back to where they wanted to be before deciding to move on and launch a new dynasty at Mississippi State.

Cannizaro already has us at Super Regional level in year one. We will see what happens in year two but with a roster that is still not his for the most part and stadium construction going on I will be fine with a Super Regional again in 2018. We have now hired Jake Gautreau and we will see what he brings to our program with his connections and also his ability to evaluate talent. By 2019 I think Cann will have weeded out our problems- no pun intended- and we will have a CWS type team to go along with our new stadium.

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While I value your post, you under-simplified college coaching. While talent evaluation is important, it's not anywhere near the toughest part. Managing scholarships with the current and active roster is the toughest. All the great programs go after the best players. Getting them to sign, is way harder than evaluating the prospect. Getting them on campus is a crap shoot at best. We can have a scout, an ex agent worker or whoever, and that's just a miniscule piece of the puzzle. Being able to relate and recruit the player no matter the background is where it's at- hell nick mingione upped our recruiting and he's none of the above. Sign as many great players as you can, (see vandy) lose a butt pile and hang onto 1 or 2 if you are lucky. Then play chess with the scholarships. And that's tough! With all that said, I'm a big fan of AC and the new addition appears to be a solid add, but neither are going to make a kid going in the top 2-3 rounds chance their minds very often, if ever.

Todd, in regards to recruiting Alabama, in my unprofessional opinion, I think in the short term recruiting Alabama might be a little more difficult. If Butch and auburn don't make a big move within three or four years, I see us being able to do as well in Alabama as we always have.

At the same time, I feel pretty confident in saying that Can is going to expand our recruiting territory pretty noticeably. Not just getting players from all over, but getting top players from all over.

It also didn't hurt Manieri that 4 key guys turned down pro-ball in their leverage year, either.

Hell, if we simply got back all the guys that signed for $150k or less, we'd have been a completely different team. Sexton, Lowe, Collins, and Tatum would be pretty key players for this years' team. Robson and Houston both signed for less than $200K as well.

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Originally Posted by AlSwearengen

Todd, in regards to recruiting Alabama, in my unprofessional opinion, I think in the short term recruiting Alabama might be a little more difficult. If Butch and auburn don't make a big move within three or four years, I see us being able to do as well in Alabama as we always have.

At the same time, I feel pretty confident in saying that Can is going to expand our recruiting territory pretty noticeably. Not just getting players from all over, but getting top players from all over.

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We do well in Alabama because it's cheaper to go to school at MSU (and even OM) than it is for those players in Alabama to go to AU or Alabama. The 11.7 actually helps us in this scenario.

What I look at is that we've made two Supers in a row and ended up losing to teams that made the final round at the CWS. It's a far cry from getting bounced in a regional by a 2 or 3 seed no one's ever heard of. I mean, I'd rather make the CWS obviously but we lost to a couple of really talented teams that got hot at the right time.

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Originally Posted by TXDawg

Speaking of team talent level...

As I've been casually watching the CWS, the one phrase I keep hearing repeated (especially as it relates to LSU) is that these CWS teams have "shortstops all over the field". The context of this statement is something to the effect that the teams in the CWS recruited the best athletes they could find (most of whom played SS in high school or select ball) and fit them in the line-up where they had needs.

I obviously haven't done the research to determine whether this is an accurate assessment by the CWS talking heads, but it does bring up an interesting discussion topic. If true, it seems to indicate that the "secret formula" in this era of college baseball is to sign the best talent out there regardless of position then find a way to get them on the field. If that's the case, I think we have a winner with Cann because he can obviously find talent. Not to mention that all of his players (current and former) seem to love playing for him which should help in the recruiting department (signing the talent he finds).

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SS's are usually the best players on their high school teams BUT you also have to remember that if a player is LH he is not going to play SS. I think P/C/sometimes 1B if a player is left handed/SS/and CF are usually the positions that the "better" players play at in no particular order. Sometimes you'll see a guy like Austin Riley playing third base in HS as well. Dual position guys in high school are usually an indicator of a talented player as well like Mason Robbins or Austin Riley. I've also seen a few guys play on loaded teams like Desoto Central had in the past where they actually could play someone at a position other than SS but that's not common.

I also think that pitchers are evaluated totally differently than hitters too.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

While I value your post, you under-simplified college coaching. While talent evaluation is important, it's not anywhere near the toughest part. Managing scholarships with the current and active roster is the toughest. All the great programs go after the best players. Getting them to sign, is way harder than evaluating the prospect. Getting them on campus is a crap shoot at best. We can have a scout, an ex agent worker or whoever, and that's just a miniscule piece of the puzzle. Being able to relate and recruit the player no matter the background is where it's at- hell nick mingione upped our recruiting and he's none of the above. Sign as many great players as you can, (see vandy) lose a butt pile and hang onto 1 or 2 if you are lucky. Then play chess with the scholarships. And that's tough! With all that said, I'm a big fan of AC and the new addition appears to be a solid add, but neither are going to make a kid going in the top 2-3 rounds chance their minds very often, if ever.

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I agree but I just didn't want to go that in depth with it. I think the scouting aspect helps a lot of times in knowing signability which is an advantage that Cann gives us that Mingione and Burroughs didn't. I think that's a big reason why Cohen got burned a lot more by the draft than Corbin and others typically. I don't expect Cann to get very many if any guys drafted in the top 10 rounds and very few from rounds 11-15. But 16 to 40 I think we will keep more- or at least maybe keep more of our college juniors.

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Originally Posted by AlSwearengen

Todd, in regards to recruiting Alabama, in my unprofessional opinion, I think in the short term recruiting Alabama might be a little more difficult. If Butch and auburn don't make a big move within three or four years, I see us being able to do as well in Alabama as we always have.

At the same time, I feel pretty confident in saying that Can is going to expand our recruiting territory pretty noticeably. Not just getting players from all over, but getting top players from all over.

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I think ultimately both will do well at Alabama and Auburn. But I agree that Cann is going to more than offset that by going more national.

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Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption

What I look at is that we've made two Supers in a row and ended up losing to teams that made the final round at the CWS. It's a far cry from getting bounced in a regional by a 2 or 3 seed no one's ever heard of. I mean, I'd rather make the CWS obviously but we lost to a couple of really talented teams that got hot at the right time.

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That sucks too because some of how far you go is the draw you get and unfortunately we ran into two of the hottest teams at the time we played them.

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Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption

What I look at is that we've made two Supers in a row and ended up losing to teams that made the final round at the CWS. It's a far cry from getting bounced in a regional by a 2 or 3 seed no one's ever heard of. I mean, I'd rather make the CWS obviously but we lost to a couple of really talented teams that got hot at the right time.

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It would have been nice to have gotten Davidson last year for a Super, Sam Houston State this year, face a team with "outed" pedophile Ace, gotten 9" additional strike zone like LSU yesterday, and gotten obvious doubles called back like LSU two nights ago

One of us is going to need to sell their soul to the devil to get this type of luck and get the first NC. Someone needs to step-up and take one for the damn team!

Didn't Burroughs help recruit the class that just had the most players ever make a MLB roster from a Sec team? Obviously
he and Butch knew something about signability.

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Hell, if we simply got back all the guys that signed for $150k or less, we'd have been a completely different team. Sexton, Lowe, Collins, and Tatum would be pretty key players for this years' team. Robson and Houston both signed for less than $200K as well.

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I feel like this is the easiest way we can close the talent gap. Losing several guys for less than $100K after taxes is a killer.

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Originally Posted by bulldogcountry1

I feel like this is the easiest way we can close the talent gap. Losing several guys for less than $100K after taxes is a killer.

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It's not that easy at all. LSU is the only one that does it the most. We now have the coach that they were coming back to play for though. I think part of it is a culture thing that starts from the fans on down. At LSU the fans act like it's the best place in the world and winning a championship will be the best thing ever that they could do and the players will be legends for life.

At MSU we tell them they should take the money and then we give them a plate of bar-b-que.

We've had plenty of talent. It's just come in waves, we haven't had it consistently enough.

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Originally Posted by smootness

We've had plenty of talent. It's just come in waves, we haven't had it consistently enough.

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This is true. Last year's team was loaded offensively. We had a pitcher or two that had a lot of talent but could never get it together consistently and they went pro. Seems to be our story.

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Originally Posted by smootness

We've had plenty of talent. It's just come in waves, we haven't had it consistently enough.

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I agree. It seems like when we have a lights out bullpen our starters are average or worse and if we have good starting pitching our bullpen is not that good. Or we have a really good pitching staff but can't hit or vice versa.

We need to find a way to put it all together at the same time.

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Originally Posted by bulldogcountry1

I feel like this is the easiest way we can close the talent gap. Losing several guys for less than $100K after taxes is a killer.

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I can take losing college juniors for $150K who will get nothing as a senior much better than I can losing HS seniors for $300K and less. I would think most of us remember our college years as some of the best and most memorable of our lives. No way I would personally throw that all away for less than at least $750K or so after taxes. And that doesn't even take into account playing in front of college crowds at true baseball schools versus toiling in the minors. Yes, you can always go back to college but going back at 24 is absolutely not the same life experience. I bet there are a LOT of guys that sign out of HS that regret spending their college years traveling from podunk town to podunk town playing in front of miniscule minor league crowds who are there more for the after game fireworks than they are for the game itself.