2 Reb Talking Points Re: NCAA

1. So you mean to tell me a player takes money from other schools and signs with another school who didn't pay him?

Yes. It happens all the time. I do not believe OM paid Tony Connor buckets of cash. He's in the SP pipeline and he was made some promises and was probably taken care of when he got on campus. The standard for any 4-star player. Remember when he took an OV to Bama and now show caused Bo Davis was quarterbacking that thing through? Remember when Bama thought they had him and OM people laughed? Maybe Bama's beautiful campus inspired that hope or maybe he picked up that bag. You decide**

2. Ben has championed that if the 2013 class was the genisis of the OM investigation it proves the NCAA is biased and unfair since Tunsil was the only one in the NOA. Dan tried to explain the concept of looking in to outliers but Ben wasn't having it.

Let me present a little example of how enforcement investigative units operate in the real world with a scenario. There is a guy named John Doe who lives in Macon, MS in an apartment right behind the city baseball park. Not an affluent area. Mr. Doe starts driving a 2017 Cadillac STS. Mr. Doe's apartment appears to usually have a group of guest and traffic. Mr. Doe was seen paying for a lunch plate at Texaco and had a wad of cash that appears to be about $1k. Driving a 17 cadilac sts is not illegal. Having company at your apartment is not illegal. Having sums of money around $1k on your person is not illegal. But all those factors led local law enforcement to ask around town and investigate Mr. Doe for possible drug dealing. The investigation led law enforcement to find out Mr. Doe was NOT drug dealing but was hosting illegal gambling (dice) games and was a participant in a local cock fighting ring. Mr. Doe was arrested on charges and served a prison stint followed by probation.

Make sense? This is what Dan and everyone else is saying that OM refuses to acknowledge. The reason the NCAA started investigating is immaterial. What matters is once there, they found stuff. They found bad stuff. OM screaming unfairness and bias is akin to Mr. Doe alleging unfair targeting by law enforcement because he drove a nice car and had money. Don't play.

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Originally Posted by BeastMan

1. So you mean to tell me a player takes money from other schools and signs with another school who didn't pay him?

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Ole Miss loves to say "we offered Leo $10K, but since he went to MSU, Mullen must have offered more".

That is decent logic. Using the same logic would say that if Ole Miss offered $10K to a 4-star in-state linebacker, then what is the going rate for a 5-star out-of-state player at a premium position such as WR, QB, or left tackle?

Why you picking on Macon?*

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Originally Posted by rolodawg

Why you picking on Macon?*

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i missed out on the cock fights.

The Leo Lewis thing is explained very simply. He wanted to go to MSU. Ole Miss offered him money and took it- and then he went where he wanted to go to school.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The Leo Lewis thing is explained very simply. He wanted to go to MSU. Ole Miss offered him money and took it- and then he went where he wanted to go to school.

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My point was, there are players on there roster that did the same thing.

Excellent analysis, Beast!

I agree with the spirit of your post, but specific to Tony Conner, Alabama backed off pretty hard because he wasn't going to be eligible. Of all the stuff we talk about with Ole Miss, the most scandalous thing I've seen is how they were able to get Conner eligible.

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

I agree with the spirit of your post, but specific to Tony Conner, Alabama backed off pretty hard because he wasn't going to be eligible. Of all the stuff we talk about with Ole Miss, the most scandalous thing I've seen is how they were able to get Conner eligible.

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Check your PM

Back at ya.

In regards to point #2 Beast -

Looking through the case summary on Ole Miss's WBB - the NCAA was alerted by the SEC about infractions at Ole Miss in September 2012, and began on campus investigation in October 2012. So, they were ON CAMPUS during the recruiting process for the 2013 signing class. They then had to return to campus in the Spring of 2013 to investigate the departing Track coach, who refused to sign the departing staff affidavit - a red flag that triggers an investigation.

At some point during that process they uncovered 2 things; 1) they uncovered Saunders and Vaughn and the "Program" for ACT scores (which was follow up to ULL in December 2013); and 2) something that triggered a look at Dante Moncrief (per the article from SBNation, they were interviewed in April 2013).

So, no one brought the NCAA to Ole Miss. They were already there, and Ole Miss wasn't smart enough not to have a Merry Flipmas and a Recruitapalooza with the NCAA ALREADY INVESTIGATING THEM. "No Mr. Investigator, there is nothing to see here, just your normal 6-6 school with coach with 2 years of D1 experience landing 3 #1 5* out of state players....."

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Originally Posted by BeastMan

1. So you mean to tell me a player takes money from other schools and signs with another school who didn't pay him?

Yes. It happens all the time. I do not believe OM paid Tony Connor buckets of cash. He's in the SP pipeline and he was made some promises and was probably taken care of when he got on campus. The standard for any 4-star player. Remember when he took an OV to Bama and now show caused Bo Davis was quarterbacking that thing through? Remember when Bama thought they had him and OM people laughed? Maybe Bama's beautiful campus inspired that hope or maybe he picked up that bag. You decide**

2. Ben has championed that if the 2013 class was the genisis of the OM investigation it proves the NCAA is biased and unfair since Tunsil was the only one in the NOA. Dan tried to explain the concept of looking in to outliers but Ben wasn't having it.

Let me present a little example of how enforcement investigative units operate in the real world with a scenario. There is a guy named John Doe who lives in Macon, MS in an apartment right behind the city baseball park. Not an affluent area. Mr. Doe starts driving a 2017 Cadillac STS. Mr. Doe's apartment appears to usually have a group of guest and traffic. Mr. Doe was seen paying for a lunch plate at Texaco and had a wad of cash that appears to be about $1k. Driving a 17 cadilac sts is not illegal. Having company at your apartment is not illegal. Having sums of money around $1k on your person is not illegal. But all those factors led local law enforcement to ask around town and investigate Mr. Doe for possible drug dealing. The investigation led law enforcement to find out Mr. Doe was NOT drug dealing but was hosting illegal gambling (dice) games and was a participant in a local cock fighting ring. Mr. Doe was arrested on charges and served a prison stint followed by probation.

Make sense? This is what Dan and everyone else is saying that OM refuses to acknowledge. The reason the NCAA started investigating is immaterial. What matters is once there, they found stuff. They found bad stuff. OM screaming unfairness and bias is akin to Mr. Doe alleging unfair targeting by law enforcement because he drove a nice car and had money. Don't play.

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Beast,

Great post & I think you hit the nail on the head.

I do think though the part of this that they are claiming is "unfair" is that what about the John Doe doesn't live in an apartment in Macon, but rather a mansion in Beverly Hills (Alabama). The entire premise of your example is built upon the idea that John Doe can't afford what he has. However, what if can?

Does the NCAA question John Doe then or do they just assume that that since he's successful, he wouldn't need to sell drugs to drive a Cadillac or have a 1K in cash?

So, then the question becomes, if the guy living in the Beverly Hills mansion can get away with it due to assumptions, then how is anyone else supposed build a championship caliber football program?

This concept alone may be the largest, single barrier to entry into becoming a college football powerhouse than any other.