Add Chris Jones to the list of pro athletes that think the earth is flat

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Lol...I'm not THE expert, but I am AN expert....but I'm flattered.

Let me try to understand your contention here....so you're saying that since C14 dating has only been around since '47, we don't have "data" on how the carbon 14 isotope behaves? And how that relationship matters in regard to organic material post-death? And how both are reflected via the ratio of C14 and C13 in the biosphere and atmosphere?

Because addressing all of this would require a fairly lengthly response....

Don't get me wrong...I'm happy to do it, but it does require some pretty essential understandings of organic chemistry, isotope decay, and what that means regarding the archaeological (and to some extents, the paleontological) record.



Of course human error is a part of this discussion; and an important one; and a ubiquitous one to scientific research. Published papers dealing with these topics are explicit in their methods, theory, rational for choice, etc. By "explicit", I mean they know it's of utmost importance to clarify how rigorously careful their sample-prep, analysis, data-extrapolation, etc. was throughout the whole process. As I mentioned before, chemical analysis, like C14, is expensive, so people want to get it right.

But, regarding the "example" experiments/studies you mentioned....I want to see these studies, their data, how they ran their experiments, Etc. I want to see it all. Because there is a lot of pseudo-science out there...and this arena is one of the main battlefields.... Agree.


Of course, man, and right back at ya.

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No need to, I'm not a chemist but I've seen enough science in other areas to know how much error gets repeated. Not to attack your field; that statement applies to the field I work as well. I see it every day. There are lots of papers and procedures produced as science that are not. There are experts out there that do not put full stock into C14 dating after 6000 or so years.


You missed the point I think. I didn't say science doesn't know how it behaves today in 2019 but there is no data over long periods of time documented in different environments which can affect C14 half life. There is not giga file of environment data from 500BC. Does that help? Also to a previous point as the half life continues to reduce the accuracy (also due to different factors from several thousands years ago) the potential error adds up. Just like uncertainty analysis on any data installed in complex calculations, the error gets amplified exponentially.

Again at the end of the day, maybe the old earth interpretation of the Bible is correct but what I have studied, the literal interpretation is the most accepted by Bible scholars smarter than me in that area and I happen to believe that based on what I have read as well. Everything I read in the Bible is total truth and I've found nothing to convince me otherwise. The Bible has also not contradicted anything in science. God created the universe and all in it; He is the creator of science and the laws of physics so I'll leave that up to God to explain to us one day.

I sure hope you and others will have that opportunity down the road. May God be with you.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

GD, flat earth, chris jones, dumbasses, etc....

this type thread makes me appreciate being a white trash, non votin' redneck with too many guns, too little religion, and a hottub....

carry on.

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For your entertainment and enlightenment. The trailers in AL can't get these channels so good ole internet delivers. Ha, I can say that I live in AL.

Back to the religion of Paul Finebaum Saban worship channel.

If there is no God, everyone comes out equal in the end.

If there is a God, only the believers will be rewarded.

So, if you're smart, you'll find your faith. It's the only way to win.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Since all your points contain C14, I'll try and explain what I said/meant. In the end, you need to study the evidence of God, Bible, etc. for yourself. I can't convince you of any truth until you discover it for yourself. Now back to your counter points.

C14 dating is about the only science we have to date something but it is not accurate past 25-30,000 years. It was only invented in 1947, by Willard Libby. C14 is measures the % of unstable carbon 14 isotopes in once living objects. The half life of C14 is only 5730 years so in 5 half lives (29,000 years) very little C14 remains. Here are a few examples of known C14 dating discrepancies: Since C14 has only been around for 70 years, the rates over thousands of years is assumed constant which in real science is not really science at all when you extrapolate that far.

Mollushs living test dated at 2300 years old (dead) yet they were alive?, Mortar from an English castle known less than 800 years old tested at 7370 years old, Fresh seal skins dated 1300 years old. There is more but moving on.

There are several factors that can alter C14 decay rates such as volcanic activity, burning, solar activity, cosmic radiation, meteors, Point is if conditions on earth were different in the past, then C14 dating is not reliable beyond about 5000 years.

I am not an expert on C14 dating but the above came from scientific research on the subject from books I have. I did graduate in engineering from Mississippi State University, one of the best engineering schools in the country. You can chose to believe or not. When science is done right, it aligns perfectly with the Bible because God created science too.

From math nothing times anything = nothing so evolution can't be true. So what is true? I believe God's Word has all the truth necessary. Creation and big bang theory just don't mix either. Two rocks hit together and create a higher order and then non living matter into living matter. Where is the energy source?? If that is how it happened, it came from God. This is the second law of thermodynamics, chaos is the normal direction not order and it takes an external energy to bring order from chaos. Does your car get naturally cleaner or dirtier? To get clean we must put energy into it.

Another question about big bang, who created the rocks? Can anyone answer these questions on evolution? They can't because there is only one answer that makes sense - God, Creator, Sustainer.

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God gave you a brain. And he gave us the ability to learn and develop. We have science, and it is not anti-religion.

But it seems that some of you think Religion should be Anti Science...

I don't think you understand radioactive decay.... That's how Nuclear energy works. People have a very good understanding of that...

And Carbon -14 "was not invented 70 years ago"

If the creation story is true, and not a allegory, it has to be old earth creation.

Where did the big bang come from ? Why is there anything at all? Who "Created" God. That's really the same question.

Because I say, God Created the Big Bang. and the one before that. But that's just Faith. And since our current understanding of Space-Time started a the Big Bang, there was no "before".

The Bible is an allegory. And you don't have to get very far into it to realize that. There was not sun, moon or starts until day 4. Somehow a "day" after there were fruit tress and a plants.... That need sunlight...

Also in Genesis 2:4-7 says God created man " before there was a shrub or plant or herb" ..... Genesis 1 says man was created on day 6 and plants on day 3....

Unless, you think God lies....

Also, There are lots of Contradictions in the Bible. Some Minor, Some Major...

1 Chron. 21:5 vs. 2 Sam. 24:9
2 Chron. 36:9 vs. 2 Kings 24:8
Acts 9,11,15,18:22,21 vs. Galatians 1:18,2:1

Is Matthew or Luke right in Jesus Genealogy? Names and Generations are different...

Is Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23 right? "He who is not with Me is against Me"

Or is it Luke 9:50 / Mark 9:40? "For he who is not against us is for us"

How many people were at the Tomb? 2,3,3+?

Where are the "Pillars of the earth"? Ps 93:1, Ps 96:10, 1 Sam 2:8, Job 9:6

And the Giant Sea Monsters?

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Originally Posted by PMDawg

.... So, to me, either it's all true, or none of it is. If parts of it are a lie, then why should I trust the Gospel? So I believe it all. ... I have faith in the Author. ...trusting Him over man....

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My problem with those statements is the Bible was written by man and certainly not by one author. Then rewritten by man and translated by man and left out lots of other books that "they" thought were irrelevant. Much of Bible was written years after it happened as well. Is every word divinely inspired? That is possible. If that is your faith, I will not say you are stupid. Many believe that way, I don't.

To me, the Bible is of man not God, written of men telling what they understood about God and what happened. No man can fully grasp everything they see, much less put it in written form for all others to comprehend. That's one reason I think it's great we have several accounts of the Gospel from differing perspectives. What parts do I believe? The part where my life has been touched. That part is real and my personal experiences are real and no one can take those from me in any discussion. You can't understand my experiences and I not yours.

The rest, I take with a grain of salt. I truly believe we are put here on this earth to develop our spirits and you can't get that from any book, even if it is the Bible. If so, we would have just read it in the Heavens and never been human. The Bible is a tool that can be used but I do not believe it has to be an absolute for me to believe there is a God.