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Forget the whole "will they get to campus" freak out for a minute and just look at the next 3 classes. They are gonna be some of the best we've ever had even if only 1/3 of them make it to campus. And even better than that he is stacking one great class behind the other. It's truly amazing what he's doing. We will win a natty within 5 years. Oh and to quote I seen it... "I don't think people realize what we have in our baseball coach" he's gonna be unstoppable
Absolutely. Guy is a prodigy.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
For comparison, Cohen had 1 top ten class in his time here and only 3 in the top 25.
If you don't recruit like Cann, we will never get the Langs, Luken Bakers, Nolas, and Singers that our competitors get. Our team will be a Drednaught Battleship of talent in short order.
No need to freak-out, we should be very happy.
I thought he had like 3 in a row that was top 6 or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
He had a team with the most players to ever make the major leagues from a college team. Regardless of ranking, he obviously had one of the most talented teams ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
We're really at the start of a new era for MSU baseball in terms of recruiting. And we will be better for it.
It took Vanderbilt 12 years and Florida 10 years to win a National Title using the recruiting model that we are now using. I think that's probably a reasonable time frame for us to expect a National Title ourselves in baseball for us too- if not sooner because the state of our program was better than those two when Corbin and O'Sullivan took over. Plus we have the advantage of learning from their mistakes and we have some other advantages that those two coaches didn't have- and still don't- that may accelerate things for us.
Cohen had to rebuild our recruiting from scratch when he took over. It's hard when you lose seven seasons and have to modernize everything from scratch. We also had some external factors to deal with at the time as well that we had to overcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by pilldawg
Amazing job by this entire staff. Cann deserves most of the credit, but I think having Gautreau on staff is paying big dividends with kids aspiring for the MLB. His unique experience at the highest level has to be a huge selling point for these kids. I love having the dual LA connection with Cann and Gautreau...and so far they appearing to be whipping Mainieri's ass in the boot!
That is a nice way to put that we had former coaches and players trying to bring down the program because Raffo didn't get the job. Is there any other program that had to deal with that? I really can't remember it happening anywhere else. I know Bobby Bowden got a little pissed off but he wasn't campaigning for people to leave the program and alumni to stop supporting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Just a question - but you look at Butch at Auburn and Minigone at UK, those guys are winning and recruiting at historically uncompetitive schools almost immediately. Seems like Cohen’s development plan was totally of the mark and he was not-great at recruiting - OR - was Polk just that Toxic that he gave Cohen a death penalty through sabotageQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
What it shows me is Cohen is one hell of an evaluator of coaches and knows how to hire em?.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
This isn't not accurate. But yes cann is killing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
Not in college baseball at least. I take great personal satisfaction in knowing that Polk was wrong though. We were at a crossroads when Polk left- we could either choose to be competitive or choose to cater to old croonies. Byrne and MSU made the right choice- and it greatly affected ALL MSU athletics down the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Butch, Lane, Mingione....and even going back to Kentucky Gary Henderson and Bohannon...are all good coaches and good recruiters. Cohen was a good recruiter and I think we did a good job overall of developing players- 2013 had more MLB players on the roster than the 85 team and we landed several players that became first round picks under Cohen. I don't think he was totally off the mark in those two areas. BUT I think he had two major flaws in recruiting- Cohen relied WAY too much on JUCO's and he lost some really good players to the MLB draft that could have been major impact guys and didn't really do much to replace them. The thing about JUCO's and baseball recruiting rankings is in some rankings they don't even count JUCO players. So depending on what poll Matt was looking at it could have been that half of the class was JUCO's and that drug the ranking down.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
The state of our program when Cohen took over simply was not good. While no question Polk did do some things to try to sabotage the program the fact that we were dormant and behind the eight ball for seven years hurt more than anything Polk tried to do off the field. Cohen took over a team with an injury depleted pitching staff and a team that didn't really have very many players in the field that were top 10 MLB draft round caliber that you need to compete at a high level. To me, that's what hurt Cohen more his first two years than anything- and then losing exacerbated everything and I'm sure some of our players at that time probably thought "well, gee- maybe Polk was right about this guy."
Butch didn't really win immediately at Auburn. He had a losing season his first year there. They were in a slightly better situation than us- Casey Mize is a legit SEC ace and better than anyone we had pitching for us Cohen's first year and Auburn's Saturday guy was good last year as well. Henderson left Mingione a good team. They had a winning season Gary's last year there and Mingione took over a team with some good talent- Tristan Pompey, Hjelle among others. I'm kind of interested to see how they do with Mingione long term- I'm not sure that I am sold on him at this point. That Kentucky team was much better than the team that Cohen inherited. Both hires were fairly popular too and yes, I'm sure that helps out at both schools.
We're lucky that Cohen is an alum of MSU. In most cases no one would have taken our job and we would have ended up with Raffo by default.
According to perfect game it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Perfect Game is the one I was talking about that doesn't count JUCO players- and the one I assumed (correctly) that you were looking at. Which explains the low rankings since Cohen had a couple of classes that were almost half JUCO players.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
Cann will beat Cohen in the PG rankings just about every year from now on just for that reason alone- which I am totally fine with. MSU is a baseball program that shouldn't have to rely on so many JUCO players. That would be like a SEC blueblood in football loading up on a class that is about 50% JUCO guys.
That like using espn as a football recruiting guide....a waste of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
It doesn't hurt to have the selling point of, "You could be one of the first to ___________ at the new Dudy Noble"! Thats a huge asset in recruiting!
Cohen was a schematic, cerebral type coach. We all saw how he overthought things from time to time. That style of coach is great at programs that have to coach up, like Kentucky. And it was not bad for us. But I like the fact that we now have a super recruiter, at a school that CAN successfully recruit due to our following and facilities. Cohen built us up and got out at exact the right time.
Cohen did his best coaching job for us in 2013 and 2016 when he just put the best players out there on the field and let them play. I hope we see more of that. At his peak, that is what Polk did. He lost the program when he quit recruiting.
He did scheme so hard for the type of baseball that gave you an advantage that when they changed the baseball, that season was just screwed. We went from having a pretty dominant pitching staff to a bunch of guys throwing BP. I understand taking advantage of anything you can but Canny is going to give us the best advantage no matter the rule changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5049
Yep, talent conquers all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
And again, in Cohen's defense, we were not in position to recruit the best in 2008. We are now, largely because of him.
We also played in the first National Title game in the big 3 in MSU History because of how he recruited, developed, and schemed. He left a pretty good team for Canny and without the crazy injuries to the pitching staff, we might have been back in Omaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5049
What's the best to look at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Well I just think pg has a sense of bias. Baseball America and collegiate baseball 10 years ago were the best. I guess that's biased on my part though.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83
I would say Collegiate Baseball because they do their rankings around September after the draft has taken place and they count JUCO's and transfers.Quote:
Originally Posted by preachermatt83